2020 Election Thoughts

[Danny Dravot]

Just now, Soxbadger said:

I dont think its probable. I am just speculating about what would (imo) be the only play for Trump if he wants to retain power based on the current facts as we know them. Which is that he simply refuses to leave, keeps claiming he is President and tries to use the military to support him. All of his actions recently (firing Esper etc) would assist him in refusing to transfer power. 

Please please please know that would never happen. The military leans to the right, sure, but we swore an oath to the Constitution. If he sits behind his desk on Inaug Day and tries to postpone the transfer, the Secret Service is going to forcibly remove him and 99.99% of service members read about it on the news later. We're not going to have any part in that.

Not to mention, his comments about McCain and POW/KIA in general, his overall incompetence, and his gross character (I had a soldier booted out for saying a female soldier would "throw pussy" at anyone during an upcoming deployment- sound familiar?) have made him, I think, the least popular Republican president among military members in DECADES.

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, Danny Dravot said:

Please please please know that would never happen. The military leans to the right, sure, but we swore an oath to the Constitution. If he sits behind his desk on Inaug Day and tries to postpone the transfer, the Secret Service is going to forcibly remove him and 99.99% of service members read about it on the news later. We're not going to have any part in that.

Not to mention, his comments about McCain and POW/KIA in general, his overall incompetence, and his gross character (I had a soldier booted out for saying a female soldier would "throw pussy" at anyone during an upcoming deployment- sound familiar?) have made him, I think, the least popular Republican president among military members in DECADES.

I believe that the military would step in and do the right thing.

I am just speculating about what options he has. 

 

[mqr]

I hope everyone realizes that this this stolen election nonsense is how every post-election period is going to play out for the rest of American history.

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, mqr said:

I hope everyone realizes that this this stolen election nonsense is how every post-election period is going to play out for the rest of American history.

Naw, only when Republicans lose.

[Balta1701]

14 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

I believe that the military would step in and do the right thing.

I am just speculating about what options he has. 

 

If the state legislatures overrode the identities of the electors, they would have legally destroyed democracy and declared Trump president. The military would be able to legally justify following him.

[StrangeSox]

12 minutes ago, mqr said:

I hope everyone realizes that this this stolen election nonsense is how every post-election period is going to play out for the rest of American history.

That's my bigger concern here. All of their puffing out their chests about LEGAL votes and their meaningless idiot lawsuits and the various GOP elected officials talking about throwing out all the votes and picking the President themselves, none of that will amount to anything for the 2020 election (probably). But it's going to leave deep scars on our democracy that might never go away. And unfortunately, there's no real reform mechanisms in place to take power away from obstructionist, anti-democracy minoritarian parties since they have enough minoritarian power to obstruct any meaningful change.

[Danny Dravot]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

If the state legislatures overrode the identities of the electors, they would have legally destroyed democracy and declared Trump president. The military would be able to legally justify following him.

When this doesn't happen, I hope you'll come to see it for the nutty conspiracy theory that it is.

[StrangeSox]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

If the state legislatures overrode the identities of the electors, they would have legally destroyed democracy and declared Trump president. The military would be able to legally justify following him.

We know that the police would overwhelmingly back Trump. It'd be enough for the military to do nothing.

[The Beast]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Naw, only when Trump Republicans lose.

Fixed.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

When this doesn't happen, I hope you'll come to see it for the nutty conspiracy theory that it is.

Again, I’m ok with that.

Perhaps the number one reason why his claim to have won on Election Day didn’t work was that people had been writing that it was going to happen for months and developing strategies.

They aren’t replacing the leadership at the pentagon for fun.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Fixed.

So basically as long as Romney is the candidate.

[Danny Dravot]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Again, I’m ok with that.

Perhaps the number one reason why his claim to have won on Election Day didn’t work was that people had been writing that it was going to happen for months and developing strategies.

Yeah, but him being an obnoxious sore loser and claiming fraud and verbally attacking our institutions is par for the course. It's a lot different from the civil war some of you guys are talking about.

Also, in 2016, there was at least some talk on the left about using faithless electors to demolish Trump's victory and put someone else in the White House. It didn't happen, though. It was talk then, it's talk now.

The EC will meet, Joe Biden will be officially "crowned" 46, Trump will whine but ultimately leave on January 20th. He'll probably skip the inauguration. It's ugly, it's stupid, but it's a far cry from any sort of coup.

[mqr]

21 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Also, in 2016, there was at least some talk on the left about using faithless electors to demolish Trump's victory and put someone else in the White House. It didn't happen, though. It was talk then, it's talk now.

Something like 65% of democrats believed the election was illegitimate at the time, the difference is the loser wasn't propping it up. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by mqr

[Danny Dravot]

4 minutes ago, mqr said:

Something like 65% of democrats believed the election was illegitimate at the time, the difference is there weren't prominent politicians backing it up.  

Jill Stein filed for recounts in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Hillary has also mentioned from time to time that she won.

[Soxbadger]

2 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Jill Stein filed for recounts in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Hillary has also mentioned from time to time that she won.

She did win the popular vote. 

"And don’t forget, Joe and Kamala can win by 3 million votes and still lose. Take it from me,"

 

That is a factually accurate statement. She never once (to the best of my knowledge) has claimed that she actually won the electoral vote and that she was President. 

 

[mqr]

5 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Jill Stein filed for recounts in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Hillary has also mentioned from time to time that she won.

I corrected my statement because there were absolutely politicians feeding into it, but HRC did concede which is the big difference here. 

[The Beast]

27 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So basically as long as Romney is the candidate.

Correct, or someone like McCain or Kasich or my favorite for 2024 - Larry Hogan of MD.

It does make me wonder where the moderate Republicans (voters and lawmakers) go from here with Trump’s influence in the party. I also wondered what has changed since 2008 when McCain graciously conceded and voters accepted it, was it anger at Obama and now feeling like Trump somehow got cheated?

I’d have to ask some Trump voters to fully understand. Like my neighbor across the street who put out a Trump sign even after Biden was called the president elect. I’m not sure if he’s showing support for the lawsuits and recounts or if he hasn’t accepted that Trump lost.

I also got to talking politics with the nurse in the hospital since we watched the results come in on CNN. I asked her when she last felt the country wasn’t divided and when there was dealmaking in congress. She said Reagan. What do you all think?

[Danny Dravot]

1 minute ago, Soxbadger said:

She did win the popular vote. 

"And don’t forget, Joe and Kamala can win by 3 million votes and still lose. Take it from me,"

 

That is a factually accurate statement. She never once (to the best of my knowledge) has claimed that she actually won the electoral vote and that she was President. 

Popular vote is TOTALLY irrelevant. If you got more hits in a baseball game, it'd be ludicrous to say, "You can win by six hits and still lose." Well, hits don't determine a winner. Nothing about getting hits in and of itself equates to winning. Same with the popular vote. Saying as much just delegitimizes our system in the eyes of many people.

I do believe you are correct that she never claimed she was actually president, FWIW.

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, The Beast said:

She said Reagan. What do you all think?

I mean that is an absurd notion. You'd probably have to go back to at least Eisenhower

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, mqr said:

I corrected my statement because there were absolutely politicians feeding into it, but HRC did concede which is the big difference here. 

I mean HRC did a LOT of blaming for her loss, but she didn't even try to stop the electoral process or transition from moving forward.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Danny Dravot said:

Popular vote is TOTALLY irrelevant. If you got more hits in a baseball game, it'd be ludicrous to say, "You can win by six hits and still lose." Well, hits don't determine a winner. Nothing about getting hits in and of itself equates to winning. Same with the popular vote. Saying as much just delegitimizes our system in the eyes of many people.

I do believe you are correct that she never claimed she was actually president, FWIW.

Eh.  A better anology would be to turn baseball into a game where scoring the runs in the most innings is how you win, instead of the most runs winning so that if someone scores 10 runs in 1 inning, they lose to someone who scores 1 run in 2 different innings.

[Danny Dravot]

13 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Correct, or someone like McCain or Kasich or my favorite for 2024 - Larry Hogan of MD.

It does make me wonder where the moderate Republicans (voters and lawmakers) go from here with Trump’s influence in the party. I also wondered what has changed since 2008 when McCain graciously conceded and voters accepted it, was it anger at Obama and now feeling like Trump somehow got cheated?

I’d have to ask some Trump voters to fully understand. Like my neighbor across the street who put out a Trump sign even after Biden was called the president elect. I’m not sure if he’s showing support for the lawsuits and recounts or if he hasn’t accepted that Trump lost.

I also got to talking politics with the nurse in the hospital since we watched the results come in on CNN. I asked her when she last felt the country wasn’t divided and when there was dealmaking in congress. She said Reagan. What do you all think?

I don't really want to get into an Iraq War thing, but remember that a vast majority of Congress voted for it. So I think it (edit: unity) is more recent. Also, even though I am on the right, I enjoy watching old videos of Bush addressing Congress after 9/11 and in the crowd, Pelosi and Hillary both are giving a standing ovation.

I ran by a house the other day that had a bunch of American flags in the yard and a sign that said, "Yes I'm a Trump girl, get over it!" I ran by the next day, when Biden was declared the winner, and all the flags were gone. Maybe they only put them out for Election Day, but it seemed a little weird to me. My only FB post (after the election but before Biden being declared the winner) said, "No matter what it looks like when the smoke clears, I'll still love our country. I hope you will too."

I stand by that sentiment and always will. I saw several tweets late last Tuesday night where it looked like it might be taking a 2016-ish turn where people were saying how much they hated the US. I couldn't imagine conditioning your love of country on the outcome of an election, but maybe that's just me.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Danny Dravot

[Danny Dravot]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Eh.  A better anology would be to turn baseball into a game where scoring the runs in the most innings is how you win, instead of the most runs winning so that if someone scores 10 runs in 1 inning, they lose to someone who scores 1 run in 2 different innings.

I like that, and am stealing it for future use.

[StrangeSox]

AZ will probably end up closer than GA, but it looks like Biden will hang on there.

 

 

[The Beast]

37 minutes ago, mqr said:

I mean that is an absurd notion. You'd probably have to go back to at least Eisenhower

What about during the Clinton, Bush and Obama years? What was bipartisan then?

29 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

I don't really want to get into an Iraq War thing, but remember that a vast majority of Congress voted for it. So I think it (edit: unity) is more recent. Also, even though I am on the right, I enjoy watching old videos of Bush addressing Congress after 9/11 and in the crowd, Pelosi and Hillary both are giving a standing ovation.

I ran by a house the other day that had a bunch of American flags in the yard and a sign that said, "Yes I'm a Trump girl, get over it!" I ran by the next day, when Biden was declared the winner, and all the flags were gone. Maybe they only put them out for Election Day, but it seemed a little weird to me. My only FB post (after the election but before Biden being declared the winner) said, "No matter what it looks like when the smoke clears, I'll still love our country. I hope you will too."

I stand by that sentiment and always will. I saw several tweets late last Tuesday night where it looked like it might be taking a 2016-ish turn where people were saying how much they hated the US. I couldn't imagine conditioning your love of country on the outcome of an election, but maybe that's just me.

The nurse I spoke to at the hospital said that she felt like our country was respected more and there was more love for the country with Trump in office, though I think she meant that our military was respected more. 
 

I don’t love or hate the country more after the election, but what I have come to strongly dislike is how I can’t agree with people on facts, the whataboutism of what parties didn’t and didn’t do and arguing with people who make the choice not to listen to another side and engage in healthy debate. I also do not like how when there is a divided Congress, the Senate Majority Leader won’t even call legislation that may or may not get the votes and could benefit American lives. I could reference bills from when Obama was in office that just died in Congress as well as some bills from the last Congress.