Pro Tony La Russa Hiring Poster Here

[ChiSox1917]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

And the follow your gut guys say Ricky Renteria makes good decisions.

Reductio ad absurdum arguments are dumb.

No they dont. Rickey renteria was trashed by both groups. 

[Quin]

1 minute ago, ChiSox1917 said:

No they dont. Rickey renteria was trashed by both groups. 

So was Cash.

[ChiSox1917]

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

So was Cash.

Not really. All the analytic guys even said before the game, you pull snell before his third time through the lineup. This was a decision made prior to the game, prior to seeing his stuff that day, and prior to seeing how in the zone he was on the mound. A better manager would have called an audible there. A good organization would have allowed the manager to do so and not force decisions based solely on analytics. 

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Not really. All the analytic guys even said before the game, you pull snell before his third time through the lineup. This was a decision made prior to the game, prior to seeing his stuff that day, and prior to seeing how in the zone he was on the mound. A better manager would have called an audible there. A good organization would have allowed the manager to do so and not force decisions based solely on analytics. 

I mean, a good organization gets to the World Series.

Then during the game everyone, including people who use analytics, were like "Oh know, what are you doing?"

[ThirdGen]

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

Not true, 7 players knelt including Anderson, Abreu, Jimenez, Robert, and Fry

I stand corrected.  I had looked at the picture of TA kneeling with Yoan and RR standing next to him.  Didn't realize other players down the line also kneeled.

But...still very very far from a united group protest.

[Superstar Lamar]

love it or hate it, what's done is done so I hope he is great

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

I haven’t been this excited since ‘05. This has completely rejuvenated me. 

When I heard the news, I screamed so loud it reverberated through the house with a force that’s only been matched by ‘05 and a few March Madness buzzer beaters. 

I feel grateful and indebted to Jerry Reinsdorf and the White Sox for making this happen. The family culture has always made this organization special for me, and an all-time great coming home is unmatched. 

[Soxbadger]

Back in the day I got to meet La Russa while he managed the A's. I think he got Harold Baines to sign a ball for me because he was my favorite player as a child.

Based on that experience this can only go well. 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Back in the day I got to meet La Russa while he managed the A's. I think he got Harold Baines to sign a ball for me because he was my favorite player as a child.

Based on that experience this can only go well. 

I got a TLR autograph when I was like 10 years old in the mid 80's at a game at the original Arlington Stadium.  That ball is all faded and barely legible.  You know, a lot like Tony now.

 

[kwolf68]

7 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Pro:  LaRussa won't take Giolito out of an elimination game after 5.1 IP and 73 pitches

Con: ........

 

 

Maybe that means we can get Blake Snell, since they obviously don't trust him to throw 74 pitches. 

[flavum]

2 hours ago, Superstar Lamar said:

love it or hate it, what's done is done so I hope he is great

That’s about it. It’s not the way 99% of fans would go, but it absolutely has a chance to be a success, and the concerns we have about him today may fade fast next year. We shall see. It’s going to be a fun team regardless because we have some good players to watch, and more are on the way.

[Hatchetman]

In the grand scheme of things this doesn't make the list of top 50 dumbest things JR has done as an owner, so I have a hard time getting super worked up about it. 

[tray]

LaRussa is there to provide some stability when Hahn and KW leave. Their days are now numbered.  Neither one will coexist too long with Tony.

[The Beast]

Let’s add the other La Russa supporters to the thread to go with KnightsOnMintSt. It’s only fitting.

Green Line, Jerksticks, ChiSox1917, brett05, IWokeUpLikeThis, tray and greg775.

Edited October 30, 2020 by The Beast

[tray]

Al Capone used to count  his enemies like that.

[VAfan]

I can't believe all the nonsense being written about Tony LaRussa. Nearly all of it comes from people who have no concept of what it takes to be a major league manager. 

It's entirely possible that this won't work out. But no one knows that. 

A lot of people hated the Sox decision to extend Jose Abreu for 3 years. Where are you now, after his MVP season? 

Tony LaRussa has a record that puts him solidly in the conversation for most accomplished manager of all time. I mean, I think you have to discount any manager from the whites-only era of baseball, before Jackie Robinson integrated the game. They might have put up some great numbers, but it was a racist game. 

If you look only at managers after 1950, for sheer volume of wins and championships, you only have LaRussa and Sparky Anderson, each of whom won 3 WS titles with teams from both the AL and NL. But LaRussa's accomplishments are much deeper and more impressive than Anderson's. Perhaps Bruce Bochy deserves mention with 4,000+ games, but he has a career losing record and won with only the Giants and Ross Bumgardner. 

LaRussa v. Sparky

2,728 wins v. 2,194 wins.

3 WS titles v. 3 WS Titles. But Anderson did it with two squads - back-to-back with the Reds and 1984 with the Tigers. LaRussa had a dominant Oakland team that won 3 pennants in a row and a WS in between. But the Cardinals WS victories were 6 years apart.  LaRussa also led the White Sox to 99 wins with the 1983 "winning ugly" squad. 

4x manager of year v 2x manager of year

5,093 games v. 4,028 games

The list can go on. 

The point is that Tony LaRussa's stature and record as a manager should have earned him some respect.  He knows vastly more about baseball and people than anyone on this blog who denigrates him. I'll bet a lot of the critics here weren't even alive when he started managing in 1979.

I don't know how this is going to turn out. Nor does anyone else. 

But I'm willing to see what happens. I'd certainly take LaRussa over the cheaters Hinch and Cora. Hinch got outmanaged last year by Dave Martinez, and Cora as the instigator of the cheating is beyond redemption. 

As a white guy, LaRussa is also bilingual, which is critical for this clubhouse. He won't need a translator. 

As for the kneeling issue, LaRussa answered that question in the press conference and Jason Benetti interview. He's changed his views. He also praised Tim Anderson for the energy and passion he brings to the game. 

LaRussa couldn't have managed so successfully over 3 different teams, 33 years, with countless different personalities if he didn't know how to navigate a clubhouse. It would seem that these players, if they are hungry to win, ought to be looking for leadership in that regard from LaRussa rather than demanding that he make changes for them, when they haven't accomplished anything as a team. I'm not saying they have to "fall in line" or anything like that. I just think there's an opportunity for a good marriage here because they want to win, and Tony LaRussa definitely wants to win. 

As for analytics, LaRussa just said at the press conference that "information is king."  He's a lawyer. He's always had an analytical mind, and has always sought every edge. But he's not a blind adherent to data. He also applies "observational analytics" within a given game because he's watching what's going on. 

LaRussa doesn't have anything left to prove in baseball. But he still was itching for one more opportunity. That tells me he wanted this and will work hard to make it work.

So, I'm not predicting this will work. It may, it may not. I think it has a good shot to succeed, but it will depend on the players, and getting better pitching. 

But I strongly feel that LaRussa has more than earned the chance, and is not deserving of the heap of scorn being dumped on him by Sox fans.  

 

[Nokona]

I think this might change a lot of people's minds on how TLR will handle the clubhouse. 

[The Hawk]

2 hours ago, tray said:

LaRussa is there to provide some stability when Hahn and KW leave. Their days are now numbered.  Neither one will coexist too long with Tony.

I do think that Hahn will leave. Question though is when? I think that he will get a lot of credit for the rebuilding job that he has done and I think he has every right to be pissed. It'll depend on what GM jobs are going to be out there next year. IF he sticks it out, he almost has to give LaRussa a lot of leeway given the guy's experience and hope he wins a championship and then Hahn leaves with a better resume.

[ChiSox1917]

1 hour ago, VAfan said:

I can't believe all the nonsense being written about Tony LaRussa. Nearly all of it comes from people who have no concept of what it takes to be a major league manager. 

It's entirely possible that this won't work out. But no one knows that. 

A lot of people hated the Sox decision to extend Jose Abreu for 3 years. Where are you now, after his MVP season? 

Tony LaRussa has a record that puts him solidly in the conversation for most accomplished manager of all time. I mean, I think you have to discount any manager from the whites-only era of baseball, before Jackie Robinson integrated the game. They might have put up some great numbers, but it was a racist game. 

If you look only at managers after 1950, for sheer volume of wins and championships, you only have LaRussa and Sparky Anderson, each of whom won 3 WS titles with teams from both the AL and NL. But LaRussa's accomplishments are much deeper and more impressive than Anderson's. Perhaps Bruce Bochy deserves mention with 4,000+ games, but he has a career losing record and won with only the Giants and Ross Bumgardner. 

LaRussa v. Sparky

2,728 wins v. 2,194 wins.

3 WS titles v. 3 WS Titles. But Anderson did it with two squads - back-to-back with the Reds and 1984 with the Tigers. LaRussa had a dominant Oakland team that won 3 pennants in a row and a WS in between. But the Cardinals WS victories were 6 years apart.  LaRussa also led the White Sox to 99 wins with the 1983 "winning ugly" squad. 

4x manager of year v 2x manager of year

5,093 games v. 4,028 games

The list can go on. 

The point is that Tony LaRussa's stature and record as a manager should have earned him some respect.  He knows vastly more about baseball and people than anyone on this blog who denigrates him. I'll bet a lot of the critics here weren't even alive when he started managing in 1979.

I don't know how this is going to turn out. Nor does anyone else. 

But I'm willing to see what happens. I'd certainly take LaRussa over the cheaters Hinch and Cora. Hinch got outmanaged last year by Dave Martinez, and Cora as the instigator of the cheating is beyond redemption. 

As a white guy, LaRussa is also bilingual, which is critical for this clubhouse. He won't need a translator. 

As for the kneeling issue, LaRussa answered that question in the press conference and Jason Benetti interview. He's changed his views. He also praised Tim Anderson for the energy and passion he brings to the game. 

LaRussa couldn't have managed so successfully over 3 different teams, 33 years, with countless different personalities if he didn't know how to navigate a clubhouse. It would seem that these players, if they are hungry to win, ought to be looking for leadership in that regard from LaRussa rather than demanding that he make changes for them, when they haven't accomplished anything as a team. I'm not saying they have to "fall in line" or anything like that. I just think there's an opportunity for a good marriage here because they want to win, and Tony LaRussa definitely wants to win. 

As for analytics, LaRussa just said at the press conference that "information is king."  He's a lawyer. He's always had an analytical mind, and has always sought every edge. But he's not a blind adherent to data. He also applies "observational analytics" within a given game because he's watching what's going on. 

LaRussa doesn't have anything left to prove in baseball. But he still was itching for one more opportunity. That tells me he wanted this and will work hard to make it work.

So, I'm not predicting this will work. It may, it may not. I think it has a good shot to succeed, but it will depend on the players, and getting better pitching. 

But I strongly feel that LaRussa has more than earned the chance, and is not deserving of the heap of scorn being dumped on him by Sox fans.  

 

Well said

[ChiSox1917]

1 hour ago, The Hawk said:

I do think that Hahn will leave. Question though is when? I think that he will get a lot of credit for the rebuilding job that he has done and I think he has every right to be pissed. It'll depend on what GM jobs are going to be out there next year. IF he sticks it out, he almost has to give LaRussa a lot of leeway given the guy's experience and hope he wins a championship and then Hahn leaves with a better resume.

A month ago the majority of posters on here wanted hahn gone. Now the consensus is worry hes going to leave.

this board has so many bipolar posters

[Vulture]

7 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

A month ago the majority of posters on here wanted hahn gone. 

I don't think that's even close to true. You're confusing an emphatic subset with the majority. Regardless, it wouldn't be a contradiction if those who do what him gone also recognize that he was undercut to such an extent that it could drive him out.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Vulture

[ChiSox1917]

3 minutes ago, Vulture said:

I don't think that's even close to true. You're confusing an emphatic subset with the majority. Regardless, it wouldn't be a contradiction if those who do what him gone also recognize that he was undercut to such an extent that it could drive him out.

Well as no polls on the subject were done, possibly youre correct. But there were certainly more posts calling for him to go than those defending him or appreciating his efforts. 

[Harry Chappas]

I find it almost amazing especially on talk radio about how people are talking about LaRussa.  I am not a fan of this move but other than trying to pry Francona out of Cleveland or looking into Bochy I'm not sure what other avenue there was.  A few bench coaches may have been better but that is a roll of the dice.  Maybe Ozzie would have been better I don't know.

I am not certain if Bochy is bi-lingual but I think the White Sox need that more than anything in a manager with this roster.

In all the angst I think some folks are losing of site of the fact the guy gets the best out of his teams.  He isn't going to be here long term but watching the Sox last year I think there is a need for a person to tighten things up and he will do that. 

He wasn't winning with the large revenue teams and free agent signings annually.  He did have superstars but he also was able to gets his talent to mesh very well.  I think he will get the best out of the younger players as well as the veterans and the Sox are better this morning than they were yesterday morning.  I think he will put players in a position to succeed not just roll them out there because they are veterans.

I am not certain that Hahn is on board with this move but this is move that makes his job easier.  LaRussa will use the talent accordingly and will have a more vocal presence in their usage. LaRussa can mange analytics, feel and his staff together to make things work.   I think guys like Vaughan and Madrigal will reap greater benefits due to having more well rounded approaches.  I also feel that Moncada, Jimenez and Robert can all reach superstar level.  These guys will be used and managed in a manner that will get the best out of them.

Tony has the voice to get players to succeed and that is what they need.  Maybe Hinch and Cora could do that, who know but LaRussa has done it for 20+ years.  He is a great stopgap to get the team to point C and I still hope Francona is here next.  

 

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said:

I find it almost amazing especially on talk radio about how people are talking about LaRussa.  I am not a fan of this move but other than trying to pry Francona out of Cleveland or looking into Bochy I'm not sure what other avenue there was.  A few bench coaches may have been better but that is a roll of the dice.  Maybe Ozzie would have been better I don't know.

I am not certain if Bochy is bi-lingual but I think the White Sox need that more than anything in a manager with this roster.

In all the angst I think some folks are losing of site of the fact the guy gets the best out of his teams.  He isn't going to be here long term but watching the Sox last year I think there is a need for a person to tighten things up and he will do that. 

He wasn't winning with the large revenue teams and free agent signings annually.  He did have superstars but he also was able to gets his talent to mesh very well.  I think he will get the best out of the younger players as well as the veterans and the Sox are better this morning than they were yesterday morning.  I think he will put players in a position to succeed not just roll them out there because they are veterans.

I am not certain that Hahn is on board with this move but this is move that makes his job easier.  LaRussa will use the talent accordingly and will have a more vocal presence in their usage. LaRussa can mange analytics, feel and his staff together to make things work.   I think guys like Vaughan and Madrigal will reap greater benefits due to having more well rounded approaches.  I also feel that Moncada, Jimenez and Robert can all reach superstar level.  These guys will be used and managed in a manner that will get the best out of them.

Tony has the voice to get players to succeed and that is what they need.  Maybe Hinch and Cora could do that, who know but LaRussa has done it for 20+ years.  He is a great stopgap to get the team to point C and I still hope Francona is here next.  

 

To me there's a couple things:

1. The process was bad, owners meddling like this rarely works out.

2. The job of manager has changed a lot. More so than "the analytics" people obssess over, it's been a position that has been more deeply integrated with the front office player development and analytics teams. Tony was a superstar manager that was given players and was allowed to own that entire process. The front office expects that collaboration, but Tony is set-up not to have to give it. He has the owners ear and did him a favor coming back, after all.

It just sets up soo much conflict. 

[ChiSoxJon]

10 hours ago, Nokona said:

I think this might change a lot of people's minds on how TLR will handle the clubhouse. 

Who the hell is Bruce Maxwell?