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YourWhatHurts

Actually Realistic Vaughn Trade Ideas?

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First off I want to say that I do not want to trade Vaughn, but I do keep seeing ridiculous trade ideas on here where the Sox let this guy go for packages that do not even represent half of his actual value.

On the surface, with Grandal the blockhead behind the plate, Abreu aging at 1B but still viable for now obviously, and Eloy the defensive potato in LF, it actually does make some sense to trade Vaughn **if and only if** we traded him in a deal for a very young, cheap, and under control for 5+ years RF or CF who could play RF.  One could argue also for a huge bat IF of similar description who would displace Madrigal at 2B or someone who would play 3B and move Moncada to RF.  I think there is some kind of argument for an ace level SP but it's a weak argument compared to our position player needs, given all the ceiling that exists in Cease, Kopech, Stiever, Kelly, and Crochet who are already here.  OTOH we really have like Jake Burger and Zach Collins as our best and most realistic options ATM who are capable of providing some level of impact at the MLB level within the next 2 years, and obviously that is not going to excite anyone.  We really have a bare cupboard in terms of position players outside of Vaughn.

So again, this is not really about trading Vaughn just to trade him, but who are some names that actually make sense?

Arozarena?  One of the ATL OFers Pache or Waters?  Frazier in NY?  Would the Yankees make some kind of deal involving their prize Dominguez?  Etc.  I think if Vaughn goes it has to be something like that.  We can't just act like he's expendable for some guy with 3 years or less control remaining who is already getting paid, no matter who he is, unless of course we're talking about Trout.

Edited by YourWhatHurts

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33 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Arozarena

😆

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The situation makes this extremely difficult.

if Vaughn had a full year at AA and dominated, he would be a top 10 prospect in baseball despite his position limits. He easily could have done that, but we don’t know for sure because of the lack of minors.

The White Sox shouldn’t trade him unless someone trades for him with that level of value, but because no one saw him this year no team should pay that.

So, moving him should require the White Sox to sell low, or at least below where he would have been valued without this virus or with a better government. They shouldn’t do that, but that’s the only thing they can do if they want to move him.

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1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I would be stunned if the White Sox traded Andrew Vaughn. They love him. 

Unless he headlines a front line starter deal, I can't see it.

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6 hours ago, YourWhatHurts said:

First off I want to say that I do not want to trade Vaughn, but I do keep seeing ridiculous trade ideas on here where the Sox let this guy go for packages that do not even represent half of his actual value.

On the surface, with Grandal the blockhead behind the plate, Abreu aging at 1B but still viable for now obviously, and Eloy the defensive potato in LF, it actually does make some sense to trade Vaughn **if and only if** we traded him in a deal for a very young, cheap, and under control for 5+ years RF or CF who could play RF.  One could argue also for a huge bat IF of similar description who would displace Madrigal at 2B or someone who would play 3B and move Moncada to RF.  I think there is some kind of argument for an ace level SP but it's a weak argument compared to our position player needs, given all the ceiling that exists in Cease, Kopech, Stiever, Kelly, and Crochet who are already here.  OTOH we really have like Jake Burger and Zach Collins as our best and most realistic options ATM who are capable of providing some level of impact at the MLB level within the next 2 years, and obviously that is not going to excite anyone.  We really have a bare cupboard in terms of position players outside of Vaughn.

So again, this is not really about trading Vaughn just to trade him, but who are some names that actually make sense?

Arozarena?  One of the ATL OFers Pache or Waters?  Frazier in NY?  Would the Yankees make some kind of deal involving their prize Dominguez?  Etc.  I think if Vaughn goes it has to be something like that.  We can't just act like he's expendable for some guy with 3 years or less control remaining who is already getting paid, no matter who he is, unless of course we're talking about Trout.

So much for suggested trades. Not one yet. Maybe your inspiring speech about ridiculous trade ideas on here helped. As a General i could hear you now rallying the troops. "Go out there boys and fight ! You're more likely to be killed by friendly fire than the enemy."

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Unless he headlines a front line starter deal, I can't see it.

This is the only way I would trade Vaughn. I think it would be a huge mistake to trade him, but I would get over it if the Sox could get a guy like Blake Snell or Brandon Woodruff in return with Vaughn as the headliner.

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Of course there is a price you would trade him for but I doubt a team is going to pay it.

Of course you trade vaughn if you get offered let's say shane bieber.

However such an offer likely is not on the table and what you get for him is not worth losing him.

Just bring him up and enjoy him.

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8 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

The situation makes this extremely difficult.

if Vaughn had a full year at AA and dominated, he would be a top 10 prospect in baseball despite his position limits. He easily could have done that, but we don’t know for sure because of the lack of minors.

The White Sox shouldn’t trade him unless someone trades for him with that level of value, but because no one saw him this year no team should pay that.

So, moving him should require the White Sox to sell low, or at least below where he would have been valued without this virus or with a better government. They shouldn’t do that, but that’s the only thing they can do if they want to move him.

I actually thing vaughn would not gain that much value with dominating AA.

Don't forget he is ranked as a top40 prospect despite being a short right handed first base man who did good but not spectacular in A ball (.830 ops). Usually a first year 1b who posts an 830 ops is a 40+ Fv prospect so of course Vaughn's 55 Fv rank or whatever he has now considers his report and assumes performance.

 

This means his ranking already assumes that he would dominate AA ball because what he has shown so far wouldn't warrant a top40 rank.

This is not a criticism as I think his milb performance was only a tiny sample and his scouting report and also spring and summer camp reports is more accurate than his small sample where he probably was a bit tired from his college season however I think his current rank basically assumes he had hit .300/400/550 in AA which is what a first base prospect needs to do to be ranked top50.

 

Now if he goes totally crazy and hits 350/450/650 this could maybe raise his value but a good deal of performance is already assumed in his ranking and probably rightfully so.

With those top college bats you just assume they will perform at last until AA so that is why they are ranked high before showing something but that also means they don't climb as much if they actually do perform.

That is different for a HS or international guy, which those guys hitting is more of a question so if they show something they will climb more.

Edited by Dominikk85

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The only way you trade Vaughn if it’s for a young cost controlled starter with TOR ability and even then I’d hate to move him.  He’s the future at 1B and adds much needed cost certainty in the coming years as the payroll continues to rise.

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Woodruff is the guy I would have my eyes on...no idea how available he actually is tho. Plus it would likely take at least Vaughn + Cease 

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11 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Woodruff is the guy I would have my eyes on...no idea how available he actually is tho. Plus it would likely take at least Vaughn + Cease 

And that’s the problem.  Honestly, I pray they will go out and be aggressive with Bauer.  He’s a douche no doubt, but he’s about the best we could ever do in free agency when it comes to a starting pitcher and it’s possible this market keeps his price down.  If his price ends up being around 5/$150M we should be all over that and keep our young talent.

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Woodruff is the only starter that makes sense. Most other starters are too old or have too few years left on contracts to trade a guy like Vaughn. 

As Chicago White Sox said, getting Bauter in free agency fixes a LOT of our stress/problems.

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Can you imagine what our offense will look like with Vaughn?  I have an idea and I want to see it. We have the lineup spot for him so let’s keep our own top prospect . We have options in the OF including Engel and I suspect Mazara. If not the free agent market could very well be a possibility 

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If we were truly cut-throat and wanted to be Rays like - you trade Abreu coming off a top season. Someone takes on his salary + you get some nice pieces back. Slot Vaughn in at 1B and Eloy in at DH. You then upgrade LF defense via trade or FA (or Abreu trade) and now you have a younger, cheaper, better defense team and solve the Eloy defense issue for the future. won't happen for a lot of reasons - but would be a good move for long term success. 

 

Not saying I am for or against it either - just saying take all emotions out of it and it makes sense. 

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15 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

If we were truly cut-throat and wanted to be Rays like - you trade Abreu coming off a top season. Someone takes on his salary + you get some nice pieces back. Slot Vaughn in at 1B and Eloy in at DH. You then upgrade LF defense via trade or FA (or Abreu trade) and now you have a younger, cheaper, better defense team and solve the Eloy defense issue for the future. won't happen for a lot of reasons - but would be a good move for long term success. 

 

Not saying I am for or against it either - just saying take all emotions out of it and it makes sense. 

No team is taking on Abreu’s salary and giving up talent for him in this market.

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7 hours ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Woodruff is the only starter that makes sense. Most other starters are too old or have too few years left on contracts to trade a guy like Vaughn. 

As Chicago White Sox said, getting Bauter in free agency fixes a LOT of our stress/problems.

Woodruff, Burnes, Marquez, Snell

I like Vaughn but he would make sense for those teams with a combo of other players

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1 hour ago, fathom said:

Woodruff, Burnes, Marquez, Snell

I like Vaughn but he would make sense for those teams with a combo of other players

Add Zac Gallen to that list also. 

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Jose Abreu was an MVP player in 2020. In 2021 or 2022, he probably won’t be. Vaughn is too good to trade, and will be needed soon enough. He may be the best hitter of them all.

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Again, it is completely senseless to trade Vaughn for a SP.

Potential mid-rotation to TOR SP depth chart (in house): Cease (5 years IIRC); Kopech (5 years); Crochet (6 years); Stiever (6 years);  Kelly (6 years)

Potential mid-rotation to back end SP depth chart (in house): all of the players above would make this list, plus maybe Lopez (3 years); Dunning (6 years); Vera (6 years); Thompson (6 years); Dalquist (6 years)

OTOH re: position players, who do we have who **actually** looks like he can be a MLBer in a full time role?

I count Vaughn, Collins, maybe Burger, Madrigal, Mendick, maybe Rutherford, maybe Yolbert Sanchez, maybe Ben Bailey, and the rest are too much of a long shot to plan on IMO.

Vaughn is the only guy who looks like he'll be an All-Star.  The others except for Madrigal all have an uphill battle just to get playing time.

If you trade for any of the P mentioned, you keep Vaughn and you trade P in the deal.

If you trade Vaughn in the deal for a SP, you need to get back a position player with a Vaughn-like ceiling.  This org is way too light on quality position player prospects.

And again the only reason I think about trading Vaughn is that, on paper, it would make sense to swap out a long-term 6-year stud at 1B with a similar player at another position where we don't have so much depth.

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11 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And that’s the problem.  Honestly, I pray they will go out and be aggressive with Bauer.  He’s a douche no doubt, but he’s about the best we could ever do in free agency when it comes to a starting pitcher and it’s possible this market keeps his price down.  If his price ends up being around 5/$150M we should be all over that and keep our young talent.

Personally, I’d trade Vaughn and Cease for Woodruff in a heartbeat. 
 

Resign mcann and sign Joc. The offense is set with Luery and Engel on the bench.
 

Add another cheap vet stater and a bullpen piece and or resign Colome and I think we're favorites in the division and a team no one wants to see in the playoffs.


But I also certainly wouldn’t be upset if we gave Bauer that contract and went in a completely different direction than above. We have a lot of options..

 

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I would prefer to see what Vaughn could do over at least 100 at=bats in the majors before assessing his trade value.

100 is a small sample size but ) is smaller.

I would also like to see his range at 1B on balls hit to either side and his ability to dig balls from TA out of the dirt or catch high throws.

I would have liked to see him up this year, but a decision was made by somebody (probably Hahn and KW)  to keep EE in the line-up  and Vaughn in Schaumburg.

If it was up to me I would consider trading Vaughn for a young starter. I like  Zach Plesac. I would throw in another prospect, player or some money to make that trade...perhaps Collins or ReyLo.

If that got done I would definitely try to sign McCann for three years and have a platoon DH with Grandal/McCann/ Abreu and occasionally Eloy.

 

Edited by tray

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18 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

No team is taking on Abreu’s salary and giving up talent for him in this market.

$14mm or whatever his number is for a probable reigning MVP?

It's a moot message board debate so I don't care enough to argue my point much - but under your point of view then every single trade this offseason should just be "free trades" aka. Just getting rid of salary. In that case the Sox should go shopping - don't have to trade any prospects & can take any player we want by just taking their salaries on. 

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