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2021 Hall of Fame Ballot

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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Paul Konerko already had his shot and did not receive a high enough number of votes to continue on the ballot this year.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/paul-konerko-misses-out-2020-hall-fame-falls-ballot-after-receiving-25-vote

I know that. Neither will Burhrle in all likelihood. ITs okay with me since I do not feel that either of them were HOF guys. Almost, but not quite and it will maybe take the veteran's committee to take the steroids era into consideration before voting. I'd be 100% all right with the veteran's committee locking out the Bonds, SoSo, Clemens, McGuire jerks and allowing two terrific players like Mark and Paulie into the shrine because they did things the right way.

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1 hour ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Buerhle should be on there.  I would love to see him get in.  Andruw Jones as well.  And I think Vizquel and Rolen too.  Some of the rest of the guys I would have to look at their numbers.  But what Buehrle was able to do with his stuff with his career was really one of the most remarkable things I've seen as a fan.  He was really the ultimate outlier.  He never should have made it but he did, and he threw 2 no-nos including a perfecto, pitched all those years and innings, made people really respect his abilities, etc.  Won a WS, saved a WS, and a great fielding P with maybe the most incredible defensive plays / athletic feats on defense you will ever see a P make.  Controlled the running game excellently, and like Hawk says, one of the best teammates anyone could ever had.  And he never lost his childlike qualities either.  Love MB and I hope he gets into the HOF.

You might have glossed over his best point. Did Mark ever miss a start? Cannot recall.

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Just want to add, even though I wouldn’t vote for Torii Hunter, out of the first timers on the ballot, I wouldn’t want to see him get less than 5% either. He needs a longer look.

Edited by flavum

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38 minutes ago, Buehrle5687 said:
Player  Career WAR 
Barry Bonds               162.8
Rodger Clemens               138.7
Curt Schilling                 80.5
Scott Rolen                 70.1
Manny Ramirez                 69.3
Andruw Jones                 62.7
Todd Helton                 61.8
Andy Pettitte                 60.7
Gary Sheffield                 60.5
Bobby Abreu                 60.2
Mark Buehrle                 60.0
Sammy Sosa                 58.6
Tim Hudson                 56.5
Jeff Kent                 55.4
Torii Hunter                 50.7
Omar Vizquel                 45.6
Barry Zito                 33.1
Dan Haren                 32.9
Aramis Ramirez                 32.4
Shane Victorino                 31.5
AJ Burnett                 29.6
Billy Wagner                 28.7
Nick Swisher                 21.4
LaTroy Hawkins                 18.0
Michael Cuddyer                 17.7
   
HOFer Bruce Sutter Career WAR 24

Steroids

Buehrle is in the middle of the pack, but if you remove the roiders, he has a shot.

Pettitte was accused of using as well.

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Just now, knightni said:

Pettitte was accused of using as well.

Andy admitted to it, though said it was for rehab, FWIW. Even without that, I would put him in the MB category of good, but not quite HOF.

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Just now, knightni said:

Lou Whitaker's WAR is pretty high. He's more than deserving over many of these guys.

He's not on the ballot. Minnie Minoso belongs in more than anyone not on the ballot, but we're not talking about him right now. BTW, there will be no committee votes this year, so La Russa and Reinsdorf can't campaign to get anyone in. 

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1 hour ago, The Hawk said:

I know that. Neither will Burhrle in all likelihood. ITs okay with me since I do not feel that either of them were HOF guys. Almost, but not quite and it will maybe take the veteran's committee to take the steroids era into consideration before voting. I'd be 100% all right with the veteran's committee locking out the Bonds, SoSo, Clemens, McGuire jerks and allowing two terrific players like Mark and Paulie into the shrine because they did things the right way.

Buehrle will absolutely be on the ballot next year. Him and Konerko aren't comparable. 

Buehrle is a borderline, but probably not. Konerko wasn't close. 

Edited by mqr

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3 hours ago, mqr said:

Buehrle will absolutely be on the ballot next year. Him and Konerko aren't comparable. 

Buehrle is a borderline, but probably not. Konerko wasn't close. 

We will have to agree to disagree on that then.

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Honestly, no one. The ones I think had HOF careers were all roiders. 

My rooting interests are:

1) Buehrle (obviously)

2) Andruw Jones (really liked him the year he was here)

3) LaTroy Hawkins (treated horribly by Cubs fans...gets the last laugh just by making it to the ballot) 

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7 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Came across a Cardinals fan post about MB

 

"

Since 1999 he's 5th in wins and the only guys who might pass him are Greinke, Scherzer, and Kershaw. In that same period he's 2nd in IP with only Verlander & Greinke likely to pass him, he's 12th in fWAR behind 8 HoFers and in line with Oswalt, Felix, and (bizarrely) Javier Vazquez. And fWAR underrates him because his combination of skill at shutting down the running game and fielding his position mean that FIP underrates him significantly - he's got an entire Cy Young season worth of extra bWAR, which uses RA instead of FIP. His BREF similar pitcher list is a couple of HoFers and a bunch fo guys who are either right on the cusp or legitimately the two biggest omissions in HoF history for SP. Add in the no-no, the perfecto, the title that he led the team to (saving Game 3 with a buzz after winning Game 2), and most importantly the 14 consecutive seasons with 200+ IP, and that's a Hall of Famer.

Every motherfucker who b****es about WAR being too heavily relied upon in any baseball/HoF debate needs to be banging the drum loudly for Buehrle to get in or reveal themselves as rank hypocrites."

Wow...he sounds really good when you say it like that.  He also is a dog lover.  I sold.🙂

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A lot of god posts here. Bonds and Clemens Were first ballot guys until they got greedy. The fact that they are both assholes will keep them out for a long time.

Buehrle sure has a high WAR. He's way more deserving than Baines was. The one guy who puzzles me with a high WAR is Pete Rose. To me he was a really good

player, but not great. His last 1,200 hits came at the expense of better players sitting on the bench. Also his MVP and gold glove awards are almost comical. 

Hell, he wasn't even the best player on his own team his MVP season. Just one mans opinion.

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On 11/17/2020 at 7:47 PM, poppysox said:

Wow...he sounds really good when you say it like that.  He also is a dog lover.  I sold.🙂

How do you spell weinerymers?

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25 minutes ago, zisk said:

A lot of god posts here. Bonds and Clemens Were first ballot guys until they got greedy. The fact that they are both assholes will keep them out for a long time.

Buehrle sure has a high WAR. He's way more deserving than Baines was. The one guy who puzzles me with a high WAR is Pete Rose. To me he was a really good

player, but not great. His last 1,200 hits came at the expense of better players sitting on the bench. Also his MVP and gold glove awards are almost comical. 

Hell, he wasn't even the best player on his own team his MVP season. Just one mans opinion.

At least with tetrahydrogestrinone, consider the possibility that he was juicing throughout his career and the explosion in his body type was not due to starting steroids but changing to the “hard stuff”. How would we know? If he had to do a cycle to recover from minor injuries, that would contribute to his ability to be a 40/40 guy as we know guys take a beating stealing lots of bases. Perhaps there’s a reason that didn’t happen before the steroid era too.

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1 hour ago, zisk said:

A lot of god posts here. Bonds and Clemens Were first ballot guys until they got greedy. The fact that they are both assholes will keep them out for a long time.

Buehrle sure has a high WAR. He's way more deserving than Baines was. The one guy who puzzles me with a high WAR is Pete Rose. To me he was a really good

player, but not great. His last 1,200 hits came at the expense of better players sitting on the bench. Also his MVP and gold glove awards are almost comical. 

Hell, he wasn't even the best player on his own team his MVP season. Just one mans opinion.

Had to laugh.  At least his first 3056 hits were valid.  Which MVP season are you talking about?  Rose leads majors in lifetime hits and runs scored, but he is just good and not great?

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43 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Had to laugh.  At least his first 3056 hits were valid.  Which MVP season are you talking about?  Rose leads majors in lifetime hits and runs scored, but he is just good and not great?

Yep, several inner ring / first ballot hall of famers are among Pete's similar batters, and he is merely "good".

 

Similar Batters
  1. Paul Molitor (678.8) *
  2. Tris Speaker (645.2) *
  3. Ty Cobb (629.8) *
  4. Robin Yount (611.9) *
  5. Paul Waner (596.1) *
  6. George Brett (591.3) *
  7. Cap Anson (576.5) *
  8. Derek Jeter (574.5) *
  9. Lou Brock (569.2) *
  10. Johnny Damon (560.1)

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On 11/17/2020 at 1:24 PM, knightni said:

Lou Whitaker's WAR is pretty high. He's more than deserving over many of these guys.

couldn't agree more. if madrigal is half as good as LW i'd be thrilled.

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1 hour ago, oldsox said:

Had to laugh.  At least his first 3056 hits were valid.  Which MVP season are you talking about?  Rose leads majors in lifetime hits and runs scored, but he is just good and not great?

Ty Cobb didn't make better players sit so he could chase a record. Just to be clear, PR career OBP .375 SP .409 Average defender. Played rotten defense at 3rd.

His skill was durability. IMHO .784OPS and average defense doesn't compute to super star. If Rickey Henderson was on the 1970's Reds instead of PR,they would have won 

4-5 titles.

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2 hours ago, zisk said:

Ty Cobb didn't make better players sit so he could chase a record. Just to be clear, PR career OBP .375 SP .409 Average defender. Played rotten defense at 3rd.

His skill was durability. IMHO .784OPS and average defense doesn't compute to super star. If Rickey Henderson was on the 1970's Reds instead of PR,they would have won 

4-5 titles.

Pete Rose is fifth all time among Left Fielders in WAR and JAWS (Ricky third in both). RH OPS .820  vs. PR .784 (36 points).

Picking a better HOFer, and saying the other is just average is similar to saying Frank Thomas (8th in WAR / 9th in JAWS) played rotten defense at 1B, with an OPS of .974 when compared to Jimmy Foxx 1.038 (4th WAR / 3rd JAWS).

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6 hours ago, zisk said:

A lot of god posts here. Bonds and Clemens Were first ballot guys until they got greedy. The fact that they are both assholes will keep them out for a long time.

Buehrle sure has a high WAR. He's way more deserving than Baines was. The one guy who puzzles me with a high WAR is Pete Rose. To me he was a really good

player, but not great. His last 1,200 hits came at the expense of better players sitting on the bench. Also his MVP and gold glove awards are almost comical. 

Hell, he wasn't even the best player on his own team his MVP season. Just one mans opinion.

Leading the world in high profile counting stats is absolutely a reason to be HOFer.  If he hadn't been banned from baseball, he would have been a first ballot HOF and one that got 99% of the vote.  I don't know how well Rose's game translates to the  modern era, but he is 100% a certain HOF player if you ignored his off of the field problems.

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