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Theo Epstein Resigns; Hoyer Stays

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4 hours ago, bmags said:

I don't see the schwarber need, he'll find work in the NL with the DH for sure.

Bryant is if you have a feel for getting a bounce back. I like him as an OF for wear and tear and just think he'll crush this year.

Weren't we all snickering last year at comparing Jose to KB as hitters? 

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4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’d rather lock up a potential 5 win OF to a below market contract for the next half decade instead of basing all my decisions around 2021.

I'd be willing to bet Bryant outproduces Springer over the next five years, if it weren't for the fact I don't have patience for a five year bet.

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5 minutes ago, Vulture said:

I'd be willing to bet Bryant outproduces Springer over the next five years, if it weren't for the fact I don't have patience for a five year bet.

Sure, but Bryant is going to sign a five year below market contract this offseason.

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2 hours ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Is there even a question?  Good reminder that just because you have your "core" signed up for X years, it doesn't necessarily mean you have an X-year window of contention.  Sh*t happens, and more with each passing year.  The Cubs are Exhibit A.

The Cubs have had a great run. It fizzled out a little but 3 NLCSs, 3 division championships, 4 90 win seasons and, a WS in 6 years is pretty good. The Dodgers, Red Sox, Astros, and Giants are the only teams to have better runs the past decade. 

Edited by SonofaRoache
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4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

It isn't that simple.  They essentially ran a complicated tax scam that put the Cubs into a complicated ownership structure which eventually will pass the team through as a tax savings.

Because of this structure they can't just pay off the team debt.  The debt has real world consequences for the team through the MLB rules on team debt and spending.

I am interested in finding out more about this. If you or anyone else has a link to a site with a story about it the ownership structure you describe please post it.

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Anyone think on Leap Year Day Kenny Williams would be the only Chicago Sports Team President less than a year later, Hahn and Bowman the only GMs.

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12 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Anyone think on Leap Year Day Kenny Williams would be the only Chicago Sports Team President less than a year later, Hahn and Bowman the only GMs.

So only Bowman then?

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6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I wouldn't want the White Sox giving up anything of value to pay Bryant $22 million or so this year. 

When we traded Sale, Q and Eaton they all had high value in their contracts.  Darvish and Bryant are very well paid.  The Cubs need to be happy with unloading salary...not so much the return.  I'm not giving a Madrigal for the privilege of paying Bryant or Darvish salaries.  Use the money on FA's.

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1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

The Cubs have had a great run. It fizzled out a little but 3 NLCSs, 3 division championships, 4 90 win seasons and, a WS in 6 years is pretty good. The Dodgers, Red Sox, Astros, and Giants are the only teams to have better runs the past decade. 

Seriously, they had a good run.  There have been years when they have gotten to the playoffs and had the pieces but just couldn't get through.  Look at the Indians, Nats, Yankees, and Dodgers up until this year.  Mostly fan bases with excellent cores go home in October regardless.  They were fortunate to win one.  If the Sox could have a run like that with another title in it, that would be terrific.

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...aaaaand we're quickly devolving into the Cubs groudnhog day thread.  To save time let's just get it all out:  (A) "I don't care about the Cubs, they're not in our division, stop caring more about the Cubs than the Sox it's pathetic."  (B) "Of course you should care about the Cubs, they're our natural intra-city rival and we compete for the same fans.  Hating the Cubs is part of the rivalry, get over yourself."  (C) "The Cubs are a cautionary tale because they traded away all their young talent and shortened their window"; (D) "The Cubs were appropriately aggressive and traded talent away for guys like Chapman who won them a World Series so it was all worth it."  

Anyway, I'd be excited about taking a flyer on Bryant but I think Springer is the safer bet.

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For all of his bad deals , Theo  is a historically great GM because he put  the finishing pieces on the Red Sox and Cubs World Series teams.

Hmmm...

If I was JR , I'd interview Theo and see how much he wants on a three year deal.  

No Rick, , EE , Mazara , Gio Gonzalez Kuechel, and Grandal, Cishek.. were not going to do it.

Rick grew up a Cub fan and that job is now open, so this might be a perfect swap.

 

Edited by tray
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7 hours ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Is there even a question?  Good reminder that just because you have your "core" signed up for X years, it doesn't necessarily mean you have an X-year window of contention.  Sh*t happens, and more with each passing year.  The Cubs are Exhibit A.

1. The cubs had next to no one locked up beyond their initial deals. 

2. Epstein swung and missed repeatedly in free agency 

3. Theo hasn't made a good draft pick in about 5 years. 

4. The cubs haven't developed a pitcher since theo arrived. 

The people that annointed the cubs as a future dynasty just completely ignored the fact that they had no sustainable pitching plan.

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11 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am just going to say it.  Kris Byrant will be one.

There is zero % chance Kris Bryant is non-tendered. 

If he were, the Ricketts should be forced to sell the team.

And theo talking about the game changing and etc. Baseballs biggest problem is not that the game has slowed or the ball is juiced or the shift... baseballs biggest problem is that far too many teams and owners are not actually trying to win.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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8 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Who is going to trade something for the obligation to pay Kris Bryant 25 million next year?

They Cubs could throw money in a trade. Bryant and $10M to buy a decent prospect, or something along those lines. It's insane to me to believe a team like the Cubs could fuck up so badly by non-tendering Bryant.

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15 hours ago, Rowand44 said:

Prolly coming to the South Side after Rick steps down. ;)

Not with that P.T. Barnum 2.0. running the show.

Looks like the NY Mets to me.

Gotta be a billionaire group out there willing to relieve us of this 40 year Reinsdorf malaise. 

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14 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:

yeah, Hahn is looking for president role next, not GM for another team. 

Although not the only reason, FTJR is the albatross that will forever hang around Hahn's neck - whether totally deserved or not.

He will never become a President or EVP of baseball operations.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by GradMc

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The narrative that the cubs window closed too quickly because of trading away too many young players in 2016-17 or free agent spending to me doesn't fit quite right. 

To me the problem was they stopped drafting and (esp.) signing intl talent well after 2015. They had no idea how to find pitching.

You can talk about Friedman being incredibly conservative in trading talent in LA, but the bigger story to me is how they never stop finding talent. They get Buehler late in the first, mlb's second best prospect Gavin Lux late in the first, Dustin May in the 3rd, and then all of the international success.

Tampa Bay will not stop finding talent. The thing that will separate a window that is half a decade vs a full decade is whether we can supplement this team with our (frankly) Cuban pipeline and the draft, or if we can't.

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3 hours ago, GradMc said:

Not with that P.T. Barnum 2.0. running the show.

Looks like the NY Mets to me.

Gotta be a billionaire group out there willing to relieve us of this 40 year Reinsdorf malaise. 

I hate that Phil Rogers also tweeted it out, but maybe Theo isn't gonna be relieving Hahn but rather he will be relieving JR

 

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Theo gonna buy the As in a few years.

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26 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I hate that Phil Rogers also tweeted it out, but maybe Theo isn't gonna be relieving Hahn but rather he will be relieving JR

 

Yes, this was discussed by both Laurence Holmes and the short portion of Parkins show (Matt Spiegel portion) I listened to yesterday. Leading an ownership group bid or a role as commissioner of baseball if he had more free reign like Adam Silver has, versus being an errand boy/toady in the Selig/Manfred mold which he would not be interested in.

Baseball can rebound and start gaining fans with more progressive/enlightened leadership (no political meaning, just forward thinking leadership).

Owners like Reinsdorf have ceded ground to a Mark Cuban style player/management partnership with mutually beneficial results in the NBA. This should be MLB's path once the Reinsdorf type owners leave the game, and the toxic owner / player relationship shifts toward a similar mutually beneficial and honest partnership.

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Despite earlier indications by Jerry that he would prefer that his son Michael Reinsdorf  not take over his ownership interest in the White Sox, I think that might be precisely what happens, just like the Halas family ownership interest in the Bears.

Anyway, how much demand would there be for another Billionaire or ownership group to own the second team in the second city ?

Any rumored offers for the team in the last decade ?

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18 minutes ago, tray said:

Despite earlier indications by Jerry that he would prefer that his son Michael Reinsdorf  not take over his ownership interest in the White Sox, I think that might be precisely what happens, just like the Halas family ownership interest in the Bears.

Anyway, how much demand would there be for another Billionaire or ownership group to own the second team in the second city ?

Any rumored offers for the team in the last decade ?

There are huge tax implications, and based on what has been publicly disclosed, I believe they have planned legally and financially to continue Bulls ownership, but won’t be able to do the same for the White Sox.

Perhaps an Obama/Theo Epstein lead investor group, between the two they definitely would be able to attract the required capital.

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1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Yes, this was discussed by both Laurence Holmes and the short portion of Parkins show (Matt Spiegel portion) I listened to yesterday. Leading an ownership group bid or a role as commissioner of baseball if he had more free reign like Adam Silver has, versus being an errand boy/toady in the Selig/Manfred mold which he would not be interested in.

Baseball can rebound and start gaining fans with more progressive/enlightened leadership (no political meaning, just forward thinking leadership).

Owners like Reinsdorf have ceded ground to a Mark Cuban style player/management partnership with mutually beneficial results in the NBA. This should be MLB's path once the Reinsdorf type owners leave the game, and the toxic owner / player relationship shifts toward a similar mutually beneficial and honest partnership.

Theo is worth 25 million dollars. Even if he "bought" a team he would merely be the figurehead. No way does 25 million buy him total reign over all decisions and spending budgets.

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24 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Theo is worth 25 million dollars. Even if he "bought" a team he would merely be the figurehead. No way does 25 million buy him total reign over all decisions and spending budgets.

Jerry has never been the majority owner of the White Sox.  In fact he was never even the person who owned the largest portion of the team, though it is possible he has become so, though not clear.  Somehow he worked into the position of being the final sayso on the team, despite his minority ownership share.  The last estimate was he owned 19% of the team, after putting in 4 to 5% at the onset.

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