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The Blake Snell Thread

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24 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

First off, he would probably have 7 or 8.

Haha all I'm saying is they saved ALL that money from the rebuild years. All teams suffered this year. The Sox had a lot of cash left over, though. Completely flopping during free agency is unacceptable here. They need to spend some money, and it sounds like they will with the Springer rumors. 

We all know he can't hold his liquor so...

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20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

We all know he can't hold his liquor so...

Serious question.  Who can't hold their liquor? I'm late to the conversation my apologies. 

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1 hour ago, fathom said:

Tampa can do much better

I’m not disagreeing, but for who and for what exactly?  Tampa Bay is going to want major league ready pieces and those aren’t typically Rays to come by.

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m not disagreeing, but for who and for what exactly?  Tampa Bay is going to want major league ready pieces and those aren’t typically Rays to come by.

But they don’t need a 2B. They likely want a catcher in any deal.  Vaughn is actually someone they could really use.

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3 minutes ago, fathom said:

But they don’t need a 2B. They likely want a catcher in any deal.  Vaughn is actually someone they could really use.

That‘a totally fair, but saying they could easily come by two top 50 prospects seems to be a bit of a stretch and then when you put positional qualifiers in place (especially catcher) you are pushing this down to like one or two teams.

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11 minutes ago, fathom said:

But they don’t need a 2B. They likely want a catcher in any deal.  Vaughn is actually someone they could really use.

Think the Giants would trade them Bart?

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12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That‘a totally fair, but saying they could easily come by two top 50 prospects seems to be a bit of a stretch and then when you put positional qualifiers in place (especially catcher) you are pushing this down to like one or two teams.

Padres, Giants, Reds, Dodgers right off the bat have catchers that could interest them.

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Andrew Vaughn and Michael Kopech are two of the top 25 prospects in baseball. There's no chance in hell that the Rays land both of them for Snell. The dude threw 100 innings in 2019 and 50 in 2020. I wouldn't even headline a package with 1 of them and I understand how awesome Snell is. When your owner is Jerry Reinsdorf and you don't consistently play at the top of the free agent market, you can't trade close to big league ready potential stars. It just doesn't make sense. I'd make a quantity deal with Cease, Dunning, Madrigal etc and if that isn't enough, just trade for Lynn or Musgrove instead. Kopech and Vaughn are too important IMO. I doubt the Rays get 1 prospect ranked as highly as either of Kopech or Vaughn. The problem is the Sox don't have enough guys in that 30-100 overall range prospect wise. 

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8 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Think the Giants would trade them Bart?

Tough call, as I’m not a fan of Bart, but also don’t think Giants will sniff 2nd place in that division for quite a while.

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14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That‘a totally fair, but saying they could easily come by two top 50 prospects seems to be a bit of a stretch and then when you put positional qualifiers in place (especially catcher) you are pushing this down to like one or two teams.

Kopech and Vaughn are top 25 prospects in the sport. Vaughn will be a top 10 prospect at some publications and he plays 1B. The White Sox shouldn't be trading guys like that. Spend some of the cheapskate owner's money instead. 

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3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Kopech and Vaughn are top 25 prospects in the sport. Vaughn will be a top 10 prospect at some publications and he plays 1B. The White Sox shouldn't be trading guys like that. Spend some of the cheapskate owner's money instead. 

Yeah, I’m with you on that.  I’d rather sign Springer and look to add Lynn as part of a quantity trade headlined by Stiever.

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57 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Love snell...but nobody wins trades with the Rays. Hard pass. 

This right here man. No way I’m making a major trade with the Rays. We’ll end up looking stupid. 

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Somebody help me out. I get that Snell had an incredible 2018. I get that his K numbers are insane. He’s also had a rising FIP each of the last two years (which is about as far as I go into adv metrics on pitchers). He doesn’t throw that many innings either. Topped out at 180 IP- averaged less than five per start this year.

As far as I’m concerned, Vaughn is EASILY off the table. I’m less of a Kopech fan, and usually open to trading prospects, but I’d pull him off the table too. I’d be OK with a Dunning package but the Rays wouldn’t accept it. What do people see in Snell to approach this differently?

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9 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Somebody help me out. I get that Snell had an incredible 2018. I get that his K numbers are insane. He’s also had a rising FIP each of the last two years (which is about as far as I go into adv metrics on pitchers). He doesn’t throw that many innings either. Topped out at 180 IP- averaged less than five per start this year.

As far as I’m concerned, Vaughn is EASILY off the table. I’m less of a Kopech fan, and usually open to trading prospects, but I’d pull him off the table too. I’d be OK with a Dunning package but the Rays wouldn’t accept it. What do people see in Snell to approach this differently?

I'm pretty much with you. 

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29 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Somebody help me out. I get that Snell had an incredible 2018. I get that his K numbers are insane. He’s also had a rising FIP each of the last two years (which is about as far as I go into adv metrics on pitchers). He doesn’t throw that many innings either. Topped out at 180 IP- averaged less than five per start this year.

As far as I’m concerned, Vaughn is EASILY off the table. I’m less of a Kopech fan, and usually open to trading prospects, but I’d pull him off the table too. I’d be OK with a Dunning package but the Rays wouldn’t accept it. What do people see in Snell to approach this differently?

While I mostly agree with you, the Rays go to their bullpen very early. I think Snell would have a longer leash on pretty much any other team, and his lack of innings wouldn't look as glaring.

That being said, I don't value Snell like the White Sox and Boston valued Sale, and that's essentially what a Vaughn + Kopech trade would be like when it was Moncada/Kopech/Basabe.

And like others have said, making a big trade with the Rays in general scares me off.

Go after Marquez or Woodruff if you have to trade for a #2 guy behind Giolito.

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Sox should not be trading ANY of their A prospects, period. That certainly includes anyone expected to start this season on the major league club - Vaughn, Madrigal, and Kopech to name just 3 guys. 

Why make these trades when free agent pitchers are available to ADD to the team without sacrificing anyone? It makes no sense to me. 

If you traded Vaughn, you would have a gaping hole at DH, no one to take over for Abreu when his contract is up. There is no one in the pipeline who can replace him at the moment. The Sox had a great offense this year, but it didn't get them past Oakland in part because we still had holes in the lineup. 

I hope the Sox front office isn't as dumb as so many of the trade-happy fans that seem to gravitate to Soxtalk. 

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1 hour ago, chetkincaid said:

This right here man. No way I’m making a major trade with the Rays. We’ll end up looking stupid. 

Totally agree.  

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Maybe stand pat during hot stove and see how things go around the league  given the Covid situation.

 If Kopech and Crochet are impressive in  ST and look like they have the stuff to eventually make the starting rotation, maybe we don't need  to trade for a TOR starter.

The Sox are not going to trade Madrigal.  He fits our line-up like a glove and is worth more to us than to other teams.

Vaughn is somewhat of an unknown quantity .   Right now Burgur and Vaughn look like they have a similar upside. Both  can hit but they can't field any position very well or run the bases.  Perhaps Sox scouts got  too enamored with Schwarber  before making those picks.

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2 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:

Love snell...but nobody wins trades with the Rays. Hard pass. 

You're absolutely right. No way I do this with the Rays. Way to costly for my comfort. Sign Springer. Trade for Musgrove w/2 yrs of control. 

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2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Andrew Vaughn and Michael Kopech are two of the top 25 prospects in baseball. There's no chance in hell that the Rays land both of them for Snell. The dude threw 100 innings in 2019 and 50 in 2020. I wouldn't even headline a package with 1 of them and I understand how awesome Snell is. When your owner is Jerry Reinsdorf and you don't consistently play at the top of the free agent market, you can't trade close to big league ready potential stars. It just doesn't make sense. I'd make a quantity deal with Cease, Dunning, Madrigal etc and if that isn't enough, just trade for Lynn or Musgrove instead. Kopech and Vaughn are too important IMO. I doubt the Rays get 1 prospect ranked as highly as either of Kopech or Vaughn. The problem is the Sox don't have enough guys in that 30-100 overall range prospect wise. 

What do you think of Balta's traded proposal?

On 11/21/2020 at 9:30 PM, Balta1701 said:

If I were Tampa Bay, I would not give up Snell for that deal as if I were moving Snell I would expect I could get better than that from someone else. You are adding Kopech to the list or I'll find better elsewhere. Kopech, Vaughn, Madrigal, and Cease - you've probably got a deal. That contract is expensive for Tampa Bay, but under control for 3 years for that money, with a Cy Young award, money that works for 28/30 teams, you're talking a Sale level deal for him.

 

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6 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Andrew Vaughn and Michael Kopech are two of the top 25 prospects in baseball. There's no chance in hell that the Rays land both of them for Snell. The dude threw 100 innings in 2019 and 50 in 2020. I wouldn't even headline a package with 1 of them and I understand how awesome Snell is. When your owner is Jerry Reinsdorf and you don't consistently play at the top of the free agent market, you can't trade close to big league ready potential stars. It just doesn't make sense. I'd make a quantity deal with Cease, Dunning, Madrigal etc and if that isn't enough, just trade for Lynn or Musgrove instead. Kopech and Vaughn are too important IMO. I doubt the Rays get 1 prospect ranked as highly as either of Kopech or Vaughn. The problem is the Sox don't have enough guys in that 30-100 overall range prospect wise. 

Of course they get a prospect as good as vaughn or kopech, we are talking about a cost controlled 27 year old ace here.

In fact I think they can get a better prospect than vaughn or kopech (who are more top40 than top20) but both would be a bit steep.

I think a fair price would be one top15 prospect and a second one in the 80-100 range.

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9 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Of course they get a prospect as good as vaughn or kopech, we are talking about a cost controlled 27 year old ace here.

In fact I think they can get a better prospect than vaughn or kopech (who are more top40 than top20) but both would be a bit steep.

I think a fair price would be one top15 prospect and a second one in the 80-100 range.

Per MLBpipeline, Vaughn is the 13th ranked prospect and Kopech is the 18th.  Almost every prospect ranked higher than them are with rebuilding teams or likely off limits.  Now, just for transparency, Baseball America has them ranked 26th & 29th while Fangraphs has them ranked 17th & 26th respectively.  This would add a few more names to the mix of comparable prospects, but I don’t think it changes the story much.  60 FV prospects are scarce to begin with and in this economic environment major league ready ones are going to be really tough to come by.  I just don’t see who all these guys are the the Rays would be able to land.

 

 

 

 

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I live in Tampa and the Rays are my 2nd favorite team. With that said:

1. Trading w/ Tampa scares me.

2. I like Snell and would love him on the team, but.... have we looked at his IP? I know Rays will suppress some but he does not go deep into games and has not shown he can pitch 200 innings.  For what we would need to give up, no thanks.

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Seems odd the the Rays are looking to trade Snell.  His remaining contract is a bargain for the type of pitcher he is.  Because of that, though, I think the cost would be too high for the Sox to trade for him.

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