Real Talk - Trading Kopech would be a big time mistake

[ron883 2,265]

We all know he has a dynamite fastball. He hit 101 in spring training this year. The dude has 3 pitches that flash plus, and he started to command them as well. This guy will be a bonafide ace if he stays healthy. Trading this guy would be a HUGE mistake. I don't think the Sox will trade him, either.

[Sox80 208]

17 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

We all know he has a dynamite fastball. He hit 101 in spring training this year. The dude has 3 pitches that flash plus, and he started to command them as well. This guy will be a bonafide ace if he stays healthy. Trading this guy would be a HUGE mistake. I don't think the Sox will trade him, either.

Agreed 100%. 

[Harold's Leg Lift 1,046]

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/cecafbf0-1082-4a4c-b6f8-ac420e2d2d09#y5Lcng4KchD.copy

[TheBooneLoganEra 14]

I'm breaking 15 years of lurking status on this site to agree with this thread. Glad to sanity start to break into the hypothetical trade talks.

[Jack Parkman 2,780]

I don't want to trade Kopech either, but the reality is that he's not going to help much in 2021 after missing 2 years. You can keep him, but if you do realize you're potentially punting a year of the window if you don't land Bauer. 

[Rey21 47]

I think Hahn is going to do everything in his power to hold onto Kopech, Dunning, and Vaughn but if an offer comes along for a top of the rotation arm - we have to remember their window to win a title is now open.
 

Kopech, Dunning, Vaughn may be good or great but give me the sure thing over a possibility 9 times out of 10. 

[TheBooneLoganEra 14]

7 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

I think Hahn is going to do everything in his power to hold onto Kopech, Dunning, and Vaughn but if an offer comes along for a top of the rotation arm - we have to remember their window to win a title is now open.
 

Kopech, Dunning, Vaughn may be good or great but give me the sure thing over a possibility 9 times out of 10. 

I hear you. However no deal is a sure thing. Let's say we give up Vaughn and Dunning for Snell and Snell hurts himself in spring training. Snell sits out a season and Dunning starts 25 games. Sure its outlandish and sometimes you need to take risks but it is still premature for the Sox to be trading prospects. Perhaps come July if we're sitting 10 over .500 and the perfect piece is out there but free agency is where 100 % of the focus should be right now.

[SonofaRoache 1,367]

6 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

I hear you. However no deal is a sure thing. Let's say we give up Vaughn and Dunning for Snell and Snell hurts himself in spring training. Snell sits out a season and Dunning starts 25 games. Sure its outlandish and sometimes you need to take risks but it is still premature for the Sox to be trading prospects. Perhaps come July if we're sitting 10 over .500 and the perfect piece is out there but free agency is where 100 % of the focus should be right now.

I think what he means by sure thing is you know the guy can pitch well consistently in the MLB. Kopech and Dunning have not done that as of yet. There is hope, but it hasn't been done. Trades have to be evaluated based on what is, not what if someone gets hurt next year. 

[bmags 5,283]

"Check out these pitches from three years and a UCL ago"

[Chicago White Sox 5,533]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

"Check out these pitches from three years and a UCL ago"

He was throwing over 100 MPH in camp this year.

[Look at Ray Ray Run 3,697]

26 minutes ago, bmags said:

"Check out these pitches from three years and a UCL ago"

I mean you're betting on Snell being the guy he was 3 yearscago.

[bmags 5,283]

23 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I mean you're betting on Snell being the guy he was 3 yearscago.

O am i 

[Baron 486]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't want to trade Kopech either, but the reality is that he's not going to help much in 2021 after missing 2 years. You can keep him, but if you do realize you're potentially punting a year of the window if you don't land Bauer. 

People on here seem to have no issue punting on years of the window like last year. 

If a trade comes along and he needs to be in a package for a controllable pitcher they need to let him go. We need pitching ASAP. We could have used someone in the playoffs. 

[TheBooneLoganEra 14]

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

I think what he means by sure thing is you know the guy can pitch well consistently in the MLB. Kopech and Dunning have not done that as of yet. There is hope, but it hasn't been done. Trades have to be evaluated based on what is, not what if someone gets hurt next year. 

I get that as well. But by that token Snell could just as well get over here and have a mid 4 era. Not likely but I just don't like considering any exchange a sure thing. And I don't think this organization is in a place yet where it can risk losing prospects in a trade. 

[ron883 2,265]

2 hours ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

I'm breaking 15 years of lurking status on this site to agree with this thread. Glad to sanity start to break into the hypothetical trade talks.

It's an honor good sir. I have to serve as the beacon of sanity here from time to time

[ron883 2,265]

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't want to trade Kopech either, but the reality is that he's not going to help much in 2021 after missing 2 years. You can keep him, but if you do realize you're potentially punting a year of the window if you don't land Bauer. 

I'm not sure about this Jack. He was ready to go during spring training, hitting 101 on the gun. We really have no idea how much he has been pitching and training during his off time. The guy has always kept his body in tip top shape. He may not be able to throw too many innings this year, but I think he'll be ready. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run 3,697]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

O am i 

Not you specifically.

[Rey21 47]

1 hour ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

I hear you. However no deal is a sure thing. Let's say we give up Vaughn and Dunning for Snell and Snell hurts himself in spring training. Snell sits out a season and Dunning starts 25 games. Sure its outlandish and sometimes you need to take risks but it is still premature for the Sox to be trading prospects. Perhaps come July if we're sitting 10 over .500 and the perfect piece is out there but free agency is where 100 % of the focus should be right now.

And let’s say Dunning’s hit his ceiling or Vaughn ends up being White Sox Mark Kotsay. Look at the past World Series winners, they all took risks at the deadline or in the offseason and gave away talent to get talent and Snell in all honesty is the perfect fit for the Sox and fits the exact player Rick Hahn looks for in trades. 

[ron883 2,265]

Just now, Rey21 said:

And let’s say Dunning’s hit his ceiling or Vaughn ends up being White Sox Mark Kotsay. Look at the past World Series winners, they all took risks at the deadline or in the offseason and gave away talent to get talent and Snell in all honesty is the perfect fit for the Sox and fits the exact player Rick Hahn looks for in trades. 

And look at the Cubs with the Quintana trade, or the Pirates with the Archer trade. They got their asses bit hard. 

[pcq 641]

Kopech has a lot to prove so I won't hold my breath. 

[Chicago White Sox 5,533]

13 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

And look at the Cubs with the Quintana trade, or the Pirates with the Archer trade. They got their asses bit hard. 

Or the Padres with the Clevinger trade to a lesser extent.  We need to add a #2 or #3 starter, but we also have to smart about it because pitching is volatile.  Giving up a Kopech or a Vaughn is a big deal and should be avoided unless it’s for a perfect piece.  Not sure Snell qualifies as that as much as I like him.

[Jack Parkman 2,780]

39 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

I'm not sure about this Jack. He was ready to go during spring training, hitting 101 on the gun. We really have no idea how much he has been pitching and training during his off time. The guy has always kept his body in tip top shape. He may not be able to throw too many innings this year, but I think he'll be ready. 

I'm not sure you can count on anyone in 2021 to pitch a full season. Everyone was abbreviated to a degree. I predict an epidemic of pitcher injuries next year. 

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to go right back to 162 games regardless of whether or not it's economically feasible. 

Something like 100-120 games with more off days. 

[bmags 5,283]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Or the Padres with the Clevinger trade to a lesser extent.  We need to add a #2 or #3 starter, but we also have to smart about it because pitching is volatile.  Giving up a Kopech or a Vaughn is a big deal and should be avoided unless it’s for a perfect piece.  Not sure Snell qualifies as that as much as I like him.

This is me too. It’s nice to hear other pitchers are available more so to avoid all teams converging on same guys.

[Jerksticks 575]

Yea keep your guys in these uncertain times.  Spend a little dough and buy Kopech some time to develop into a free ace.  Trading these guys is beyond insane.  
 

And for Snell??!?  Good Lord.  Get deGrom with Vaughn and Kopech.  I wouldn’t like that but I guess I’d understand at least.  Blake Snell? GTFOH

Edited November 26, 2020 by Jerksticks

[YourWhatHurts 308]

I get shit for some of my trade ideas here I guess, but I don't like trades where I feel like my team is very possibly or even probably giving up the best player in the deal.  It's one thing if it's a rebuild situation or a salary/FA thing where you are trading a vet who is good as gone anyway, and/or who you can't win with without tearing everything down, but I really don't like giving up a guy that I can easily look at and be like "Yeah he can be better than the guy we're getting in less than 2 years."  That's not a good feeling.  Kopech is definitely one of those guys, same with Crochet and maybe Cease too.  E.g. I'd rather get hurt holding onto a bust that I thought could turn into Justin Verlander or Randy Johnson than actually trade away Justin Verlander or Randy Johnson when they were fucking prearb.  That is like one of the worst things you could ever do as a GM.

The kinds of deals I like are where you add volume.  Maybe there's one guy at the top who is a blue chipper prospect but he's limited in a lot of areas, like Madrigal is.  You just don't trade Luis Robert.  If you can get Wander Franco obviously you trade Vaughn but you don't just trade Vaughn for anything out there.  I also like deals like the Cubs deal where we got 2 guys back with higher ceilings than the player we gave up.  Other teams like the Rangers are trying to do that to us with Lance Lynn but I say they can go fuck a flagpole.  I think about what the Astros did to get Verlander, and that's the kind of thing I want to do.  This team should be in no hurry to go for broke / push all their chips in, so let's wait it out if necessary because we have guys coming up that have potential to be as good or better than all of these guys out there on the block now.