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Sox acquire Lance Lynn for Dane Dunning and Avery Weems

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1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Man you must have a masters degree in negativity. I get that you don't like the 2020 Sporting News GM of the year...and you hate the White Sox as a general rule.  But come on man...this roster that Hahn has built is filled with budding stars at almost every position...they have a low payroll with room to upgrade and the future has never been brighter.  To this Hahn adds, by almost every measure, a top ten pitcher in all of baseball in exchange for a player dealt from an area of massive organizational strength...young pitchers...and of the dozen dynamic young arms Dunning was the oldest and with the least dazzling stuff.   From THIS data you manage to write a 10,000 word dissertation that Hahn sucks and this is likely to be a "hahn special" because...1) The team is over rated.  2) Lynn isn't very good because the last 300 innings where he earned 10 WAR are an illusion and we should probably also ignore the fact that in 9 years he's pitched 1500 innings with a FIP of 3.64 and nearly 3 WAR per year and instead focus on that horrible last game he pitched.   3) Dunning is AMAZING based on his 34 innings of 4 FIP at the major league level and will leave a "gaping" hole??  4) Cease, Kopech, Lopez, Kelly, Crochet, Stiever, Dahlquist, Thompson, lambert, Flores and Pinklington are trash are unlikely to fill the hole that Dunning's departure leaves.   This is just rantings.   Did Hahn run over your dog or something?    

 

Michelangelosmonkey...you really have a ton of patience.  You have been in the crosshairs several times lately and yet do your best to calmly explain your viewpoint.  Several of the resident negative posters have obviously baited you and yet you plug on with your well-reasoned response.  I will have to try to emulate your approach.  In general, I think your approach is much better than mine which is to tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.😀

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2 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Man you must have a masters degree in negativity. I get that you don't like the 2020 Sporting News GM of the year...and you hate the White Sox as a general rule.  But come on man...this roster that Hahn has built is filled with budding stars at almost every position...they have a low payroll with room to upgrade and the future has never been brighter.  To this Hahn adds, by almost every measure, a top ten pitcher in all of baseball in exchange for a player dealt from an area of massive organizational strength...young pitchers...and of the dozen dynamic young arms Dunning was the oldest and with the least dazzling stuff.   From THIS data you manage to write a 10,000 word dissertation that Hahn sucks and this is likely to be a "hahn special" because...1) The team is over rated.  2) Lynn isn't very good because the last 300 innings where he earned 10 WAR are an illusion and we should probably also ignore the fact that in 9 years he's pitched 1500 innings with a FIP of 3.64 and nearly 3 WAR per year and instead focus on that horrible last game he pitched.   3) Dunning is AMAZING based on his 34 innings of 4 FIP at the major league level and will leave a "gaping" hole??  4) Cease, Kopech, Lopez, Kelly, Crochet, Stiever, Dahlquist, Thompson, lambert, Flores and Pinklington are trash are unlikely to fill the hole that Dunning's departure leaves.   This is just rantings.   Did Hahn run over your dog or something?    

 

From the sound of his post, hahn didnt run over his dog because he was getting ready to take him for a walk.

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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

From the sound of his post, hahn didnt run over his dog because he was getting ready to take him for a walk.

 

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Man, you know the pandemic is getting to you when you missing going to Union freaking Station. Don't think I've been there at all this year, and I know what I'm getting the next time I do. 

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22 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

Man, you know the pandemic is getting to you when you missing going to Union freaking Station. Don't think I've been there at all this year, and I know what I'm getting the next time I do. 

Burrito beach, baby

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But the question is, do you want to extend him? I say ride him hard and put him away wet. Giolito, Keuchel, Kopech, Crochet, Cease and Steiver going into ‘22 with option to acquire another starter as needed is fine by me. If Sox sign a starter to multi year deal this year its a no brainer

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I haven't been paying attention to this offseason so I am late but I just want to be on record saying I hate this trade and believe most Sox fans will come to agree in the coming years.

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9 hours ago, JuliusO1274 said:

I haven't been paying attention to this offseason so I am late but I just want to be on record saying I hate this trade and believe most Sox fans will come to agree in the coming years.

Certainly hurts giving up Dunning. I hope they extend Lynn for a total of 3 years control... that would help a lot. Seeming that he grew up 3 hours from here, perhaps it is a possibility. 

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7 hours ago, hi8is said:

Certainly hurts giving up Dunning. I hope they extend Lynn for a total of 3 years control... that would help a lot. Seeming that he grew up 3 hours from here, perhaps it is a possibility. 

I liked what we saw from Dane especially since he was a rookie who will likely improve. He also seemed to be a likable guy who is good for the clubhouse. However, I wasn't immediately against the trade when I first read about it until I found out Lynn is only a 1 year rental.

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1 hour ago, JuliusO1274 said:

I liked what we saw from Dane especially since he was a rookie who will likely improve. He also seemed to be a likable guy who is good for the clubhouse. However, I wasn't immediately against the trade when I first read about it until I found out Lynn is only a 1 year rental.

Copy/pasted from another thread:

Big Pitching FAs next year

Young

Dylan Bundy
Stroman
Gausman
Syndegaard
McCullers
Eduardo Rodriguez

Vets
Kershaw
Greinke
Scherzer

 

Add in Lynn, and that's 10 possible rentals that could've been gotten for much less at the TDL. I fully get that Lynn has been great, and may well be great again in his age 34 season.

But why in God's name spend an asset to have the right to pay Lynn? Why not make a couple of SP signings (for money ONLY) during the offseason, and then re-evaluate at the TDL? Maybe Cease gets his shit sorted, or Kopech picks his head up. If not, maybe you go grab Scherzer to finish the job, or even Wheeler.

Winning  the WS requires getting to the playoffs, as healthy as possible, and being the hottest team once you're there. It doesn't require that you have the best record over 162. To me, the health part means having depth; the "hottest team" part means making the best moves at the TDL. 

 

Oh well, GM TLR has spoken, I guess. I hope Lynn's doughy 34 year old body holds up.

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I agree on the doughy 34 year old body part.  
 

I think you have to really take into account that the organization went into the 2019 season trying to build value for Dunning because they either don’t believe in him long term, have too many better guys ahead of him or both.  They pumped his value strategically.  Then they entered the offseason hoping to trade him at what they perceived to be absolute peak value.  
 

If that’s true then this was a masterful play.  Everybody should acknowledge that as a legitimate possibility but I feel most aren’t.  

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3 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Ah well, GM TLR has spoken, I guess. I hope Lynn's doughy 34 year old body holds up.

 

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

I agree on the doughy 34 year old body part.  

Bartolo Colon, C.C. Sabathia, etc. laughs at these posts.

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I do love that the needs going into this off season (RF, SP, Reliever) are going to be exactly the same next off season because of how cheap the shit owner of this team is.

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6 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

I agree on the doughy 34 year old body part.  
 

I think you have to really take into account that the organization went into the 2019 season trying to build value for Dunning because they either don’t believe in him long term, have too many better guys ahead of him or both.  They pumped his value strategically.  Then they entered the offseason hoping to trade him at what they perceived to be absolute peak value.  
 

If that’s true then this was a masterful play.  Everybody should acknowledge that as a legitimate possibility but I feel most aren’t.  

Yeah, I doubt that this org, which fucked up the development of other SP prospects, had the foresight to do as you suggested here.

Dunning going into 2019 was just coming off 62 IP at AA; in March of that year, he had TJ surgery. Meanwhile, other SP prospects either failed to develop (Fulmer), got injured/failed to develop (Rodon), are on their way to failing (Lopez), or are less promising now than going into 2019 (Cease/Kopech).

So even if this org had a pump & dump scheme for Dunning planned going into 2019, it makes little-to-no sense now. Dunning was only called up in 2020 because of the ineffectiveness of the SPs ahead of him.

Occam's Razor suggests that the simplest explanation is probably true: there was no pump & dump scheme planned for Dunning by this org. They simply stupidly overpaid for a rental, full stop.

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4 hours ago, SoxAce said:

Bartolo Colon, C.C. Sabathia, etc. laughs at these posts.

Yeah, the one or two fat fucks that that were able to stay effective means that EVERY fat fuck stays effective as he ages. AMIRITE?

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It's true that I worry more about a bigger 20 year old who hasn't shown they can handle their body weight than a 32 year old that has shown they can handle their body weight.

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I mean somewhat related but a tangent: this caused me to go back and look at David Wells page because I always think it's hilarious how old some of the players KW acquired in the early 00s that we still thought would be great. David Wells was 38 when we acquired him, and he pitched 6 more years.

But that's not what I'm writing about. The real surprise I always have looking at Wells page is he's not that good? I mean when I was a kid and we got him, I was thrilled that we got a bonafide Ace. And yeah, that's because he won 20 games...but his ERA was 4.1! And then I'm like "man, late 90s early 00s, the offensive environment was just incomprehensible to now" But then you look at the top 10 in ERA then and it looks pretty similar to now. He didn't strike people out, though he didn't walk people.

Completely at odds with how I remember him as a kid. 

Anyway pedro martinez is the best pitcher in history.

 

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9 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

I agree on the doughy 34 year old body part.  
 

I think you have to really take into account that the organization went into the 2019 season trying to build value for Dunning because they either don’t believe in him long term, have too many better guys ahead of him or both.  They pumped his value strategically.  Then they entered the offseason hoping to trade him at what they perceived to be absolute peak value.  
 

If that’s true then this was a masterful play.  Everybody should acknowledge that as a legitimate possibility but I feel most aren’t.  

Starting Dunning in their biggest game of the 2020 season might make it a very remote legitimate possibility as well. 

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3 hours ago, SCCWS said:

Starting Dunning in their biggest game of the 2020 season might make it a very remote legitimate possibility as well. 

Who else did we prefer? Cease or Rodon?

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