Hot Stove Closer Talk

[SonofaRoache]

17 minutes ago, Vulture said:

40-45 million would bring payroll to about 150 mil bigger issue is '22-23 but I guess that's a point in favor of Lynn and Eaton moves

Lynn, Eaton, Dk gone by then. So is more fat that won't be here to stay. There are no excuses to not expand payroll significantly. 

[quickman]

9 minutes ago, Bigsoxhurt35 said:

No excuse not to sign both Brantley and Hendricks. I agree with Leiter (spelling be damned)

If people here believe nightengale is an earpiece for JR, then Brantley is not signing here , but I believe that they are working on the deal with Hendrix. I still think a starter will be added for just the simple reason the whitesox saw just last year how pitchers can go down or get covid and they had to use people that were not ready. If the window is now as Hahn says it is there has to be another pitcher ( veteran ) added as a back up. You need to go 7 deep in case something happens. This would mean kopech can start in the minors for a couple of months as he needs too since he hasn’t pitched shit in two years, cease and another veteran can be 4/5 and Lopez is the long man in your pen in case a bad game comes up here and there . Lopez can always step in if needed and kopech after a few months can come up and pitch. 

[Whisox05]

 

[Orlando]

So, since it’s hot stove season, might as well speculate. Once I heard that the Sox are interested in Liam Hendricks, I went to his IG and searched popular Sox players. 0 came up. Now I went back and he’s following Lucas Giolito. Maybe it glitched earlier or something but just a small thing that is probably nothing but could be a good sign. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Orlando

[ron883]

6 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

 

Oof, that would be a tough pill to swallow. 2 years would be a no brainer. That 3rd year could be rough given his age. Cubs signed Kimbrel for 3 years, 43 mil. They are regretting that deal big time.

[fathom]

Just now, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Oof, that would be a tough pill to swallow. 2 years would be a no brainer. That 3rd year could be rough given his age. Cubs signed Kimbrel for 3 years, 43 mil. They are regretting that deal big time.

There were also red flags that Kimbrel was fading. Not so for Hendriks

[Baron]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

There were also red flags that Kimbrel was fading. Not so for Hendriks

Yeah Hendriks is clearly in a better position right now. 

[ron883]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

There were also red flags that Kimbrel was fading. Not so for Hendriks

Agreed. It still scares me considering his age and the fact that the A's used and abused him.

[chw42]

1 minute ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Agreed. It still scares me considering his age and the fact that the A's used and abused him.

We don't exactly have a good track record with giving relievers big contracts in free agency. But Hendriks is much better than the likes of Scott Linebrink and David Robertson. 

[Vulture]

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

Lynn, Eaton, Dk gone by then. So is more fat that won't be here to stay. There are no excuses to not expand payroll significantly. 

I already took that into account. I don't really see that fat in the guaranteed salaries or arb eligible players either. Escalating contract salaries and arb players, for example, already make up for the loss of Abreu's salary between '22-23. The baseline payroll is in fact approximately 25-30 million more in '22-23 than it was in '21 prior to signing of Eaton and addition of Lynn. Lynn and Eaton basically bring '21 baseline closer to '22-23.. Anderson, Jimenez, Robert, Moncada and Bummer all have escalating contracts, gio will be in year three arb, cease, kopech and more will be in arb, etc. Any fat would be among the low level arb players who won't be making much anyway.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Vulture

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, oneofthemikes said:

Who is "we"?

Is it the pitching coach? Because he's new. Or the manager? Also new. The fans? Jerry's already shown that he doesn't care about that at all.

Listen, I know that Colome put up good numbers the past couple seasons but I worry that they're a mirage. His peripherals aren't all that great.

There are probably like 50 peripherals right now in use. You would have to use a few of them to convince me. I don't think you can find too many bad things from his 2020 performance. He only uses his 2 best pitches now both that get hitters to beat the ball into the ground and induce weak contact. Why worry about it being a mirage. We can't have good things ? Same stuff was said about Q "smoke and mirrors", McCann "he is what he 's always been" !

[oneofthemikes]

10 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There are probably like 50 peripherals right now in use. You would have to use a few of them to convince me. I don't think you can find too many bad things from his 2020 performance. He only uses his 2 best pitches now both that get hitters to beat the ball into the ground and induce weak contact. Why worry about it being a mirage. We can't have good things ? Same stuff was said about Q "smoke and mirrors", McCann "he is what he 's always been" !

Colome's BB/9 was TRIPLE what Hendriks was last season (SSS I know) but even if you go back to 2019 it was ~1.2 BB/9 higher than Hendriks. And Colome's xFIP over the last 2 seasons suggests that he's due for substantial regression. The Steamer projection puts him at a ~4.5 ERA for next season and I know that they're not gospel but projecting a nearly 4 run jump in ERA has to be based on something.

[bmags]

37 minutes ago, oneofthemikes said:

Colome's BB/9 was TRIPLE what Hendriks was last season (SSS I know) but even if you go back to 2019 it was ~1.2 BB/9 higher than Hendriks. And Colome's xFIP over the last 2 seasons suggests that he's due for substantial regression. The Steamer projection puts him at a ~4.5 ERA for next season and I know that they're not gospel but projecting a nearly 4 run jump in ERA has to be based on something.

They are going to hate him because he isn't relying on strikeouts. But I am a believer in his ability to generate groundballs. 

[oneofthemikes]

12 minutes ago, bmags said:

They are going to hate him because he isn't relying on strikeouts. But I am a believer in his ability to generate groundballs. 

And that's fine. I don't hate Colome as a player, my preference would just be to go with Hendriks.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 minutes ago, bmags said:

They are going to hate him because he isn't relying on strikeouts. But I am a believer in his ability to generate groundballs. 

One thing that kills closers is giving up the long ball. Colome didn't give up a single HR last year and he never has given up many.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

46 minutes ago, oneofthemikes said:

And that's fine. I don't hate Colome as a player, my preference would just be to go with Hendriks.

I think most of us would but I will always defend Colome .

I will edit this to say the Colome giving up "TRIPLE" the walks per 9 than Hendriks has to be put into context. Without looking at the stats if Hendriks gives up 1 BB/9 that would mean Colome gives up 3 BB/9 . If Colome pitches his typical outing of 1 inning , he is giving up 1 walk every 3 appearances.

Edited December 9, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[hogan873]

Colome has the ability to make every safe situation a nail biter but not give up many runs.  He was actually very effective for the Sox, but he made us plenty nervous.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, oneofthemikes said:

Colome's BB/9 was TRIPLE what Hendriks was last season (SSS I know) but even if you go back to 2019 it was ~1.2 BB/9 higher than Hendriks. And Colome's xFIP over the last 2 seasons suggests that he's due for substantial regression. The Steamer projection puts him at a ~4.5 ERA for next season and I know that they're not gospel but projecting a nearly 4 run jump in ERA has to be based on something.

Colome is almost always ahead of his FIP.  His career FIP is about 6 tenths of a run higher than his actual ERA.  Some guys just have the stuff to pitch over their expectations and "fool" the stats.  6 out of his 8 full seasons he has out performed his FIP.

[TheCommish]

How about grabbing Hendricks AND Colome? Add Crochet, Bummer and the young guys, that's a solid, world series type of bullpen. That way if you need Hendricks for a big out in the 7th or 8th inning, you've got Bummer/Colome that are experienced to close out the game if needed. That's how playoff baseball works now, we have to build the team for that, not the regular season. 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, TheCommish said:

How about grabbing Hendricks AND Colome? Add Crochet, Bummer and the young guys, that's a solid, world series type of bullpen. That way if you need Hendricks for a big out in the 7th or 8th inning, you've got Bummer/Colome that are experienced to close out the game if needed. That's how playoff baseball works now, we have to build the team for that, not the regular season. 

Just like with McCann, these guys want the marquee role.  Colome will go somewhere he can close if the Sox sign Hendriks.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

They are going to hate him because he isn't relying on strikeouts. But I am a believer in his ability to generate groundballs. 

Would you actually want a closer that doesn’t rely on strike outs though? I’d much rather have a guy with a K/9 10 and over. I don’t want to see the ball put in play in the 9th. This isn’t a slam against Colome, I really liked what he provided the past two years and loved the Narvaez trade. Just a general question.