Vulture Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: If the Sox can’t afford 4 years of Hendriks, how are they going to be able to afford that? The same way I can’t afford to pay 15 bucks for a burger but I can afford 30 for a ribeye 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 This desire to blow all our chips the first year of contention window is inanity to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, almagest said: I wouldn't add Cease. He's part of the extended window to me, hopefully. Let's see what Katz can do with him. I would do that if the Cubs are throwing in a ton of cash. He's got 3 yrs/$59M left over. That completely reasonable except for the fact that he's 34 already. I don't know if many people realize Darvish is older than Lance Lynn. Lynn has thrown 1847 innings as a professional. Darvish has thrown 1127 in the MLB and another 1268 in Japan. That's a total of 2400 innings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Cease + Stiever for Darvish. Push the chippies in. LOL I am fine with Darvish but we should only push a token player into the pot. We would be taking on a really big salary giving the Cubs salary relief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, poppysox said: I am fine with Darvish but we should only push a token player into the pot. We would be taking on a really big salary giving the Cubs salary relief. Rogers said they’d be asking for 2-3 top ten prospects from a team 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 40 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: This desire to blow all our chips the first year of contention window is inanity to me. Yeah, would much rather wait ................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, fathom said: Rogers said they’d be asking for 2-3 top ten prospects from a team That was the payoff for Sale on a very affordable contract. Darvish is not going to get a Sale like return IMO. I guess how someone interprets who is a top prospect is subjective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 23 minutes ago, shago said: Yeah, would much rather wait ................... Good point...hadn’t thought of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, poppysox said: That was the payoff for Sale on a very affordable contract. Darvish is not going to get a Sale like return IMO. I guess how someone interprets who is a top prospect is subjective. A teams top ten prospects don’t equal a #1 mlb prospect, Kopech plus another team top ten prospect. Two top ten prospects from the Sox could mean Adolfo and Sheets depending on who is making the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Vulture said: A teams top ten prospects don’t equal a #1 mlb prospect, Kopech plus another team top ten prospect. Two top ten prospects from the Sox could mean Adolfo and Sheets depending on who is making the list. It was suggested that Cease and Stiever would make a fair deal for Darvish...I disagreed. I believe it is an overpay considering the Darvish salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: I would do that if the Cubs are throwing in a ton of cash. He's got 3 yrs/$59M left over. That completely reasonable except for the fact that he's 34 already. I don't know if many people realize Darvish is older than Lance Lynn. Lynn has thrown 1847 innings as a professional. Darvish has thrown 1127 in the MLB and another 1268 in Japan. That's a total of 2400 innings. Yeah, and his age is part of why I wouldn't do both of them. I also think it shortens the window as I think Cease still has a chance to be a solid starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Briro2021 said: I am not excusing anyone. I just know how they operate. No 4th year to a 35 year old RP. I think you have to look at the total contract. Just using some numbers to make the point not suggesting any contracts for a specific player. 3/36 or 4/42 are interesting choices for both a team and a player, especially older players looking at perhaps their last contract. Or to use an absurd example would you rather have a guy for 3/30 or 4/30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambuca Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, poppysox said: It was suggested that Cease and Stiever would make a fair deal for Darvish...I disagreed. I believe it is an overpay considering the Darvish salary. I don’t think Stiever has that much value. I would guess the Cubs turn down that offer. Like it or not, Darvish is one of the best pitchers in baseball right now and despite his age, he seems to be getting better. His salary shouldn’t diminish his value. I think his contract might make him more valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briro2021 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Texsox said: I think you have to look at the total contract. Just using some numbers to make the point not suggesting any contracts for a specific player. 3/36 or 4/42 are interesting choices for both a team and a player, especially older players looking at perhaps their last contract. Or to use an absurd example would you rather have a guy for 3/30 or 4/30? True lol but he is not an idiot. The 4th year is going to be too high for the sox on AVERAGE. Have to assume he wants AT LEAST 4/44. Probably more like 4/50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Briro2021 said: True lol but he is not an idiot. The 4th year is going to be too high for the sox on AVERAGE. Have to assume he wants AT LEAST 4/44. Probably more like 4/50. I was specifically pointing out that a blanket no fourth year shouldn't be an automatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, fathom said: Rogers said they’d be asking for 2-3 top ten prospects from a team The Sox should have saved Avery Weems for a bigger trade. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briro2021 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Texsox said: I was specifically pointing out that a blanket no fourth year shouldn't be an automatic. And i was simply pointing out that should be obvious. Nobody here is talking about 3/36 vs 4/36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, Briro2021 said: And i was simply pointing out that should be obvious. Nobody here is talking about 3/36 vs 4/36 I wasn't even talking about any specific player. (Which I put in italics.) Often times it isn't obvious to everyone. Some people skim posts or just repeat things they have heard without really thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) Maybe not the thread for this, but looking at future payroll commitments I can see why the Sox went cheap in RF and would be reluctant to trade any of their blue chip prospects in more “win now” moves. We’re going to need guys on pre-arb deals to offset the rising costs of our locked up core and my guess is they’re targeting RF to be one of those spots. Based on what we’ve heard / know, I think they will prioritize the following moves over the remainder of the offseason: Hendriks - 3/$39M Giolito extension - 5/$75M (if 5th year team option is exercised) Lynn extension - 2/$40M (covering the 2022 & 2023 seasons) Best available starter at $10M or less willing to take a one year deal (Quintana, Richards, Archer, etc) Left-handed bat on the cheap later the off-season (LaStella, Gonzalez, Miller, etc.) Oscar Colas - remaining international bonus pool With these moves, you’re looking at ~$150M in payroll commitments in 2022 and that’s assuming pre-arb guys in RF, the #5 spot in the rotation, and in the UT role. I think it’s likely they can go higher than that figure in 2022, but it will be hard to add a ton of long-term deals if you want to build in breathing room for escalating salaries. You’re likely looking at another stop-gap in RF if none of Adolfo, Rutherford, or Gonzalez don’t step up or if Colas doesn’t move faster than expected. Any remaining funds would go towards strengthening the bench and bullpen on short-term deals as needed. Circling back to Hendriks, I think adding him on a three year contract makes all the sense in the world if we’re unwilling to commit big dollars to a RF upgrade. Realistically, if you can extend Lynn and believe in Kopech, Cease, & Crochet, there simply won’t be that many holes that would require a sizable investment. Sign Hendriks, move every other guy down a spot, and create a bullpen that can be weapon come October. That’s where I think the front office is heading and I’m fully aligned with that strategy if Jerry won’t pony up for any A tier free agents that will require a ten figure commitment. Edited December 17, 2020 by Chicago White Sox 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Maybe not the thread for this, but looking at future payroll commitments I can see why the Sox went cheap in RF and would be reluctant to trade any of their blue chip prospects in more “win now” moves. We’re going to need guys on pre-arb deals to offset the rising costs of our locked up core and my guess is they’re targeting RF to be one of those spots. Based on what we’ve heard / know, I think they will prioritize the following moves over the remainder of the offseason: Hendriks - 3/$39M Giolito extension - 5/$75M (if 5th year team option is exercised) Lynn extension - 2/$40M (covering the 2022 & 2023 seasons) Best available starter at $10M or less willing to take a one year deal (Quintana, Richards, Archer, etc) Left-handed bat on the cheap later the off-season (LaStella, Gonzalez, Marwin, etc.) Oscar Colas - remaining international bonus pool With these moves, you’re looking at ~$150M in payroll commitments in 2022 and that’s assuming pre-arb guys in RF, the #5 spot in the rotation, and in the UT role. I think it’s likely they can go higher than that figure in 2022, but it will be hard to add a ton of long-term deals if you want to build in breathing room for escalating salaries. You’re likely looking at another stop-gap in RF if none of Adolfo, Rutherford, or Gonzalez don’t step up or if Colas doesn’t move faster than expected. Any remaining funds would go towards strengthening the bench and bullpen on short-term deals as needed. Circling back to Hendriks, I think adding him on a three year contract makes all the sense in the world if we’re unwilling to commit big dollars to a RF upgrade. Realistically, if you can extend Lynn and believe in Kopech, Cease, & Crochet, there simply won’t be that many holes that would require a sizable investment. Sign Hendriks, move every other guy down a spot, and create a bullpen that can be weapon come October. That’s where I think the front office is heading and I’m fully aligned with that strategy if Jerry won’t pony up for any A tier free agents that will require a ten figure commitment. Not even Patrick Mahomes required a ten figure commitment. Granted, it was half of that, but not all the way to ten figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 Just now, Dam8610 said: Not even Patrick Mahomes required a ten figure commitment. Granted, it was half of that, but not all the way to ten figures. Sorry, meant nine figure commitment (i.e. $100M+). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 If the White Sox sign La Stella I 100% believe soxtalk caused it to happen. We also forced KW to sign Iguchi so there is precedent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Cishek catching up on soxtalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, bmags said: Cishek catching up on soxtalk Hey you make enough takes off our threads you're bound to be right eventually! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Sorry, meant nine figure commitment (i.e. $100M+). I know, just thought it was funny to point out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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