Hypothetical question re: Eaton

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Quin said:

More pizza for Kunta.

 

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

The difference is bmags can articulate his position in a way where when people are finished reading it, no one thinks “God what a colossal prick this guy is.” 

I’m not sure this is true

[turnin' two]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

It would be a relief. I’d be “thrilled” if Eaton gave us the .390 OBP he gave in short seasons with the nats, or shut down opponents run game like he did with his arm in 2016 with Sox.

But I’m worried we’ll get a drop to .330 OBP with low power and a decline in foot speed cutting out some running singles.

An annoying feature of this board to me is always rationalizing against only the white Sox. It is likely Eaton is better than Mazara. But we need to start looking at getting an edge over the Yankees, rays, twins, etc. 

My hope is even with less power, we get a team that likes to swing the bat, continue to make good contact and we see good sequencing.

 

See, this is why I'm ok with signing Eaton.  Because I think this is likely a playoff team Engel/Leury in RF.  When I think about matching up  with the Yankees, A's, Astros, Rays, Jays or whoever, in the playoffs; you know what I think the Sox need?  Pitching.

So, if signing allows them to bring in Hendriks, then I'm all for it.  If it allows them to sign Hendriks and a starter?  Great.  Hendriks and any of McGee, Bradley, Rosenthal?  Yeah, that's what I want.  Because I think Giolito, Keuchel, and Lynn can be mostly depended on in a playoff game.  I don't know if any of the younger guys will step up, sure hope they will.  But in the playoffs, being able to go with Crochet, Foster, Heuer, Bummer, McGee (or whichever one), well that seems pretty good to me.  

They marginally improved upon a weakness, and gave themselves an opportunity to upgrade in other areas as well.

Edited December 13, 2020 by turnin' two

[RagahRagah]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

We still would have heard “well they didn’t go after Springer so they better go after Bauer now”.

And rightfully so.

[Dick Allen]

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Strong trade bait lol wuhhhht?

Eaton had that season in 2019; the Nationals had a team option on him this year for 9 million dollars (his buyout was 1.5 million). The Nationals, who are trying to win games, didn't pick up his 9 million dollar option. Then multiple teams were "in on him" and the best offer he could get was 7.5... but he'd become a great trade bait at 8 million next year after having the same year he had in 2019. You honestly can't make this shit up.

Eaton was such a winner in Washington but the Nats had no interest on keeping him to be their RF'er for 9 million dollars; they now don't have a RF as of today.

It was $10.5 million.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It was $10.5 million.

The buyout was 1.5. They had to pay that amount regardless. The 9 million is what he'd cost them to retain.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The buyout was 1.5. They had to pay that amount regardless. The 9 million is what he'd cost them to retain.

So it was $10.5 million. He got paid his  buyout in 2020. They would have had to pay him $10.5 million in 2021. It matters a little bit. Soto may move to RF, and there is talk they are interested in Schwarber to play LF. They aren’t going after Springer either even though their owner makes JRs bank account look small and he let Harper and Rendon  walk the last couple of years. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Dick Allen

[South Side Hit Men]

5 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Is essentially the exact same offensive production that netted the Sox Giolito, Lopez and Dunning. 

Let's try this again. This is not even remotely accurate.

Eaton had a 6.6 bWAR (5.9fWAR), and averaged a 5.2 bWAR (4.4 fWAR) with the White Sox. That is the type of production which caused Mike Rizzo to overreach in this trade.

2019 Adam Eaton is 1.5 bWAR / 2.3 fWAR player. No team is giving up those prospects for him. In fact, no team was willing to give anything beyond a $8.0M deal.

Adam Eaton's 2019 was barely above league average (104 OPS+), with the White Sox it averaged +120. The 2019 counting stats were heavily influenced by the crazy juiced ball which crazily inflated most player's stats. When the ball returned to normal last season, Eaton did as well.

Dick Allen (.292 / .378 / .534) would be a below average BA hitter with power if you compared his stats to the average 1930 ballplayer (.296 / .356 / .434). However, putting stats into the proiper context, and accounting for the severely depressed offensive output in the 1960s results in Allen's 156 OPS+, 62 points higher than the average 1930 hitter w/ OPS + of 94.

Edited December 14, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Let's try this again. This is not even remotely accurate.

Eaton had a 6.6 bWAR (5.9fWAR), and averaged a 5.2 bWAR (4.4 fWAR) with the White Sox. That is the type of production which caused Mike Rizzo to overreach in this trade.

2019 Adam Eaton is 1.5 bWAR / 2.3 fWAR player. No team is giving up those prospects for him. In fact, no team was willing to give anything beyond a $8.0M deal.

Adam Eaton's 2019 was barely above league average (104 OPS+), with the White Sox it averaged +120. The 2019 counting stats were heavily influenced by the crazy juiced ball which crazily inflated most player's stats. When the ball returned to normal last season, Eaton did as well.

Dick Allen (.292 / .378 / .534) would be a below average BA hitter with power if you compared his stats to the average 1930 ballplayer (.296 / .356 / .434). However, putting stats into the proiper context, and accounting for the severely depressed offensive output in the 1960s results in Allen's 156 OPS+, 62 points higher than the average 1930 hitter w/ OPS + of 94.

Again, look at his last 2 years with the White Sox, and look at his numbers in 2019. They, the actual numbers, are virtually identical. This is also almost spot on with his career averages. So to thing he may put up similar numbers isn’t actually a reach.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Dick Allen

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

The difference is bmags can articulate his position in a way where when people are finished reading it, no one thinks “God what a colossal prick this guy is.” 

This is absolutely hilarious.

Not only do I never call people names, such as prick, but I dont get defensive and start attacking the poster. I either reiterate my point or expound on it. Its weird that offends you.

I also have people like you aimlessly, and unprovoked, call me something like a prick without crying and retaliating towards you because uh its not that big of a deal?

Keep on being you though buddy. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So it was $10.5 million. He got paid his  buyout in 2020. They would have had to pay him $10.5 million in 2021. It matters a little bit. Soto may move to RF, and there is talk they are interested in Schwarber to play LF. They aren’t going after Springer either even though their owner makes JRs bank account look small and he let Harper and Rendon  walk the last couple of years. 

The 1.5 was already guaranteed. The option for the nationals was 9 million.

Yeah, they let go of him without thinking about spending big. Makes you wonder hmmm.

[South Side Hit Men]

7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Again, look at his last 2 years with the White Sox, and look at his numbers in 2019. They, the actual numbers, are virtually identical. 

Again, if you are unwilling to understand and/or acknowledge statistics in context, then there isn't anything else to say to you on this subject other than to close with this:

Thank you Juiced Ball!:

2019 Nomar Mazara 116 G; 19 HR, .786 OPS

2019 Adam Eaton 151 G, 15 HR, .792 OPS

Edited December 14, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[RagahRagah]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This is absolutely hilarious.

Not only do I never call people names, such as prick, but I dont get defensive and start attacking the poster. I either reiterate my point or expound on it. Its weird that offends you.

I also have people like you aimlessly, and unprovoked, call me something like a prick without crying and retaliating towards you because uh its not that big of a deal?

Keep on being you though buddy. 

You have zero self-awareness. 

You're almost incapable of not making snarky comments (this very post is such an example).

Seriously, the amount of times you say, "buddy" or, "pal" at the end of a sentence condescendingly could start drinking games and betting pools around here.

Edited December 14, 2020 by RagahRagah

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

You have zero self-awareness. 

Pal, if you cant handle condescending and sarcasm you should stop posting online. People are condescending and douchey to me everyday I post here, I dont cry and call them names. Tony, who is a moderator of this site, has done that to me multiple times. Does it bother me? No. Is it immature and embarrassing? I sure think so, which is why I leave my doucheyness to being condescending and sarcastic instead of getting personal with name calling.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

You have zero self-awareness. 

You're almost incapable of not making snarky comments (this very post is such an example).

Seriously, the amount of times you say, "buddy" or, "pal" at the end of a sentence condescendingly could start drinking games and betting pools around here.

Only at soxtalk is buddy and pal condescending Banter worse than getting personal with name calling. What a world.

[RagahRagah]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Pal, if you cant handle condescending and sarcasm you should stop posting online. People are condescending and douchey to me everyday I post here, I dont cry and call them names. Tony, who is a moderator of this site, has done that to me multiple times. Does it bother me? No. Is it immature and embarrassing? I sure think so, which is why I leave my doucheyness to being condescending and sarcastic instead of getting personal with name calling.

LOL.

Go back and read what I edited my post to say BEFORE you quoted it...

"Pal!"

[RagahRagah]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Only at soxtalk is buddy and pal condescending Banter worse than getting personal with name calling. What a world.

Who said it was worse?

It still shows you're a prick. If your words carry enough weight to support your arguments, then you don't need to act like that and make those comments. Yet you do. In almost every single post. Whataboutisms don't justify it.

It's fucking childish and tiresome. Period.

Edited December 14, 2020 by RagahRagah

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, RagahRagah said:

LOL.

Go back and read what I edited my post to say BEFORE you quoted it...

"Pal!"

Lol you walk around calling people who disagree with you an ass hat and a moron; i call people buddy and pal and I'm the problem. You cant make it up. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, RagahRagah said:

Who said it was worse?

It still shows you're a prick. If your words carry enough weight to support your arguments, then you don't need to act like that and make those comments. Yet you do. In almost every single post.

It's fucking childish and tiresome. Period.

I talk to my best friend like that. All my buddies. Im sorry that word hurts your feelings. 

You literally attack people personally who disagree with you but I'm childish. This is amazing. Please, keep it coming. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[RagahRagah]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Lol you walk around calling people who disagree with you an ass hat and a moron; i call people buddy and pal and I'm the problem. You cant make it up. 

I have never called anyone here a moron or an asshat. You have me mixed up with someone else.

[RagahRagah]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I talk to my best friend like that. All my buddies. Im sorry that word hurts your feelings. 

You literally attack people personally who disagree with you but I'm childish. This is amazing. Please, keep it coming. 

We aren't your best friends. There's a clear difference between messing around with your buddies and having a serious discussion and clearly you have no idea how handling the latter poorly reflects on you in the adult world.

Define, "attack." When someone is wrong, I correct them. I will be Frank. But I never namecall and use snarky comments (on a couple of instances I did but apologized). I don't need to.

At this point, the sheer amount of people you constantly have to fend off this same criticism from should be a sign that MAYBE there's validity to it.

Edited December 14, 2020 by RagahRagah

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

25 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

We aren't your best friends. There's a clear difference between messing around with your buddies and having a serious discussion and clearly you have no idea how handling the latter poorly reflects on you in the adult world.

Define, "attack." When someone is wrong, I correct them. I will be Frank. But I never namecall and use snarky comments (on a couple of instances I did but apologized). I don't need to.

At this point, the sheer amount of people you constantly have to fend off this same criticism from should be a sign that MAYBE there's validity to it.

Uh, I'm not having "serious" discussions. I'm talking about baseball on a fan message board. I think that's the problem your having, you are taking this a bit too seriously.

I do just fine in the "adult" world. 

edit: sorry, instead you apologized for being a dick and stated that's not who you are in real life. See, I know I'm a condescending sarcastic guy who takes very little seriously in real life too... another small difference in our self awareness.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[RagahRagah]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Uh, I'm not having "serious" discussions. I'm talking about baseball on a fan message board. I think that's the problem your having, you are taking this a bit too seriously.

I do just fine in the "adult" world. 

edit: sorry, instead you apologized for being a dick and stated that's not who you are in real life. See, I know I'm a condescending sarcastic guy who takes very little seriously in real life too... another small difference in our self awareness.

BS. If you're saying you're not being serious then why bring statistics up? Why present actual arguments? Exactly what parts are serious and which aren't? You saying you don't take it serious is just an excuse for when you're wrong or act like a jackass and get called out for one or both of them.

I don't need to be snarky to make a point.

Edited December 14, 2020 by RagahRagah

[Sox72]

What a weird thread. Started by someone who needed to feel validated. Propped up by posters who saw it as an opportunity to bring down one of the best posters on the site via mob mentality. And then not only NOT shut down by mods, but used by one to jump on the bandwagon and call names. 
 

I guess keep it up if you just want Sox Talk to be filled with Rons and the like. Maybe that’s the endgame?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

27 minutes ago, Sox72 said:

What a weird thread. Started by someone who needed to feel validated. Propped up by posters who saw it as an opportunity to bring down one of the best posters on the site via mob mentality. And then not only NOT shut down by mods, but used by one to jump on the bandwagon and call names. 
 

I guess keep it up if you just want Sox Talk to be filled with Rons and the like. Maybe that’s the endgame?

No worries. At least this time Tony didn't threaten to ban me for disagreeing with him. Those were good times.

When you disagree with people it will bother them; I know what I sign up for with my style.

Ragah still thinks we're having "serious" discussions; talking about baseball - a game - and a team none of us play for - a hobby. Apparently because I involve statistics - my background - that means it's a serious discussion. Really odd takes all around.