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Owners would like to delay season until vaccine

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I have no idea how Bob can look in the mirror with all the water he carries for ownerships:

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Joe Biden isn't talking about a National Shutdown; this is a blatant lie from an owner (probably Jerry) that Bob pushed. Owners don't want to open up until they can get 100% of gate; it's absurd, and obnoxious. They could easily start the season on time (they literally played through the pandemic last year lol) but they simply don't want to. Baseball is doing everything it can to push fans further and further from the game.

They've laid off hundreds - if not thousands of employees - all while maintaining their anti-trust exemption and their absurd wealth. They took public money to fund stadiums that they'll now close unless they can make as much money as possible off them. These guys are crooks.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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Football is playing, basketball has started again, but baseball supposedly can’t figure it out by spring training... man it feels like the owners almost trying to chase the fans away. Anything for them to save a few pennies I guess. Why does it have to be like this when we finally might be good?

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34 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I have no idea how Bob can look in the mirror with all the water he carries for ownerships:

Image

 

Joe Biden isn't talking about a National Shutdown; this is a blatant lie from an owner (probably Jerry) that Bob pushed. Owners don't want to open up until they can get 100% of gate; it's absurd, and obnoxious. They could easily start the season on time (they literally played through the pandemic last year lol) but they simply don't want to. Baseball is doing everything it can to push fans further and further from the game.

They've laid off hundreds - if not thousands of employees - all while maintaining their anti-trust exemption and their absurd wealth. They took public money to fund stadiums that they'll now close unless they can make as much money as possible off them. These guys are crooks.

Honestly, some version of “you can’t go to a baseball or basketball game unless you have had the vaccine and all our players who can will do it in a public event on May 1” as a way to push the population to get it, that isn’t a bad strategy. It’s not the government pushing it but a private organization, there’s a reward even if it is “getting to spend money”, and there’s a good press day involved for everyone.

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12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Honestly, some version of “you can’t go to a baseball or basketball game unless you have had the vaccine and all our players who can will do it in a public event on May 1” as a way to push the population to get it, that isn’t a bad strategy. It’s not the government pushing it but a private organization, there’s a reward even if it is “getting to spend money”, and there’s a good press day involved for everyone.

Sure, but we know MLB doesn't actually care about the health and safety of anyone. Hence how they had fans in the stands in the playoffs and let ginger man ignore all protocols and celebrate. 

This is all about paying the players less and having them subsidize the losses for another year; yet as I noted before, they never give players raises as the games revenues have skyrockted changing the split from about 51/49 or 50/50 down to roughly 46/54 now.

And Balta, I don't want to get into a vaccine discussion but as of today there is no evidence (yet) that the vaccine itself limits contagion. What we do know is that it helps the body overcome the virus without symptoms. The rushed process - South Korea, for example is taking a "wait and see how safe" approach with the vaccine and that should be alarming at least somewhat - has caused people to be genuinely concerned. Young people really shouldn't be lining up to get a vaccine that may not prevent contagion, and in theory could have a bigger long term risk than the actual disease. Just five months ago the media and doctors on TV told us it was IMPOSSIBLE to have a vaccine by the end of the year; after Trump said otherwise. The reason being? They said we needed proper procedures that take time to assure safety. Now the virus is here and they wonder why some people are hesitant to take it. South Korea is even taking a wait and see approach as I noted, which to me is a bit curious and concerning. 

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Sure, but we know MLB doesn't actually care about the health and safety of anyone. Hence how they had fans in the stands in the playoffs and let ginger man ignore all protocols and celebrate. 

This is all about paying the players less and having them subsidize the losses for another year; yet as I noted before, they never give players raises as the games revenues have skyrockted changing the split from about 51/49 or 50/50 down to roughly 46/54 now.

And Balta, I don't want to get into a vaccine discussion but as of today there is no evidence (yet) that the vaccine itself limits contagion. What we do know is that it helps the body overcome the virus without symptoms. The rushed process - South Korea, for example is taking a "wait and see how safe" approach with the vaccine and that should be alarming at least somewhat - has caused people to be genuinely concerned. Young people really shouldn't be lining up to get a vaccine that may not prevent contagion, and in theory could have a bigger long term risk than the actual disease. Just five months ago the media and doctors on TV told us it was IMPOSSIBLE to have a vaccine by the end of the year; after Trump said otherwise. The reason being? They said we needed proper procedures that take time to assure safety. Now the virus is here and they wonder why some people are hesitant to take it. South Korea is even taking a wait and see approach as I noted, which to me is a bit curious and concerning. 

Your willingness to speak with an air of authority on literally every topic is astounding.

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10 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Your willingness to speak with an air of authority on literally every topic is astounding.

What am I an authority on? I have concerns on a vaccine, just as the entire country of South Korea does. I am not a doctor or a scientist; I am merely pointing out that they themselves told us a vaccine this year was IMPOSSIBLE and it was impossible due to the amount of time the safety process took. I am also pointing out that Dr Fauci himself said the vaccine has not yet been proven to contain the spread of the virus. Would you like me to link my sources in the future?

I am not advising anyone to listen to my opinion and concerns on a vaccine. People are free to do what they want. I am giving my opinion on the concern some people have.

Sources for my buddy: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

"The new vaccines will probably prevent you from getting sick with Covid. No one knows yet whether they will keep you from spreading the virus to others — but that information is coming."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-southkorea/south-korea-to-buy-millions-of-coronavirus-vaccine-doses-but-sees-no-need-to-hurry-idUSKBN28I053

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8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Sure, but we know MLB doesn't actually care about the health and safety of anyone. Hence how they had fans in the stands in the playoffs and let ginger man ignore all protocols and celebrate. 

This is all about paying the players less and having them subsidize the losses for another year; yet as I noted before, they never give players raises as the games revenues have skyrockted changing the split from about 51/49 or 50/50 down to roughly 46/54 now.

And Balta, I don't want to get into a vaccine discussion but as of today there is no evidence (yet) that the vaccine itself limits contagion. What we do know is that it helps the body overcome the virus without symptoms. The rushed process - South Korea, for example is taking a "wait and see how safe" approach it is with the vaccine and that should be alarming - at least somewhat. Young people really shouldn't be lining up to get a vaccine that may not prevent contagion, and in theory could have a bigger long term risk than the actual disease. Just five months ago the media and doctors on TV told us it was IMPOSSIBLE to have a vaccine by the end of the year; after Trump said otherwise. The reason being? They said we needed proper procedures that take time to assure safety. Now the virus is here and they wonder why some people are hesitant to take it. South Korea is even taking a wait and see approach as I noted, which to me is a bit curious and concerning. 

South Korea can take the wait and see approach on the vaccine as they've had good leadership and a population who took proper steps.   Unfortunately, this country hasn't done so.   That's why we have over 20% of the world's deaths from the virus and have to take aggressive measures.

Unfortunately, I agree with the owners stance on holding the season off until players can be vaccinated.    We did complete last season but it was only 60 games and some teams struggled to achieve that (St Louis and Miami).    Since that time, the number of cases in the country have exploded and we will have far more problems in 2021 if we try to launch before it's realistic.   

I don't even see the owners claiming to wait for fans to be vaccinated.    I see them saying let's get the players vaccinated.   I don't believe they are advocating for full stadiums to start the season.....they just want a legit season and not to have to teams playing games short 8 players and having to fill it with minor leaguers.   

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14 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Sure, but we know MLB doesn't actually care about the health and safety of anyone. Hence how they had fans in the stands in the playoffs and let ginger man ignore all protocols and celebrate. 

This is all about paying the players less and having them subsidize the losses for another year; yet as I noted before, they never give players raises as the games revenues have skyrockted changing the split from about 51/49 or 50/50 down to roughly 46/54 now.

And Balta, I don't want to get into a vaccine discussion but as of today there is no evidence (yet) that the vaccine itself limits contagion. What we do know is that it helps the body overcome the virus without symptoms. The rushed process - South Korea, for example is taking a "wait and see how safe" approach with the vaccine and that should be alarming at least somewhat - has caused people to be genuinely concerned. Young people really shouldn't be lining up to get a vaccine that may not prevent contagion, and in theory could have a bigger long term risk than the actual disease. Just five months ago the media and doctors on TV told us it was IMPOSSIBLE to have a vaccine by the end of the year; after Trump said otherwise. The reason being? They said we needed proper procedures that take time to assure safety. Now the virus is here and they wonder why some people are hesitant to take it. South Korea is even taking a wait and see approach as I noted, which to me is a bit curious and concerning. 

That's a nice hot take. 

 

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2 minutes ago, sin city sox fan said:

South Korea can take the wait and see approach on the vaccine as they've had good leadership and a population who took proper steps.   Unfortunately, this country hasn't done so.   That's why we have over 20% of the world's deaths from the virus and have to take aggressive measures.

Unfortunately, I agree with the owners stance on holding the season off until players can be vaccinated.    We did complete last season but it was only 60 games and some teams struggled to achieve that (St Louis and Miami).    Since that time, the number of cases in the country have exploded and we will have far more problems in 2021 if we try to launch before it's realistic.   

I don't even see the owners claiming to wait for fans to be vaccinated.    I see them saying let's get the players vaccinated.   I don't believe they are advocating for full stadiums to start the season.....they just want a legit season and not to have to teams playing games short 8 players and having to fill it with minor leaguers.   

Don't want to take this off-course so I'll just say this is 100% true, but do we really want to be taking a vaccine that countries that managed the virus well aren't taking yet for safety reasons, just because our leadership screwed up? I want to take a vaccine because it's safe, not because my government fucked up managing the virus.

As for your second point, I understand that view for sure and can see that being the reason. I don't have much faith in ownership though, but you could absolutely be correct.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

I am not advising anyone to listen to my opinion and concerns on a vaccine.

 

19 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

Young people really shouldn't be lining up to get a vaccine that may not prevent contagion, and in theory could have a bigger long term risk than the actual disease. 

You are, and it’s neither informed nor responsible.  That’s the last I’ll say on this subject, which really has no place as a subject for “debate” on a White Sox message board.

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5 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

 

You are, and it’s neither informed nor responsible.  That’s the last I’ll say on this subject, which really has no place as a subject for “debate” on a White Sox message board.

What did I say that was wrong exactly?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

The new vaccines will probably prevent you from getting sick with Covid. No one knows yet whether they will keep you from spreading the virus to others — but that information is coming

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-southkorea/south-korea-to-buy-millions-of-coronavirus-vaccine-doses-but-sees-no-need-to-hurry-idUSKBN28I053

We don’t see the need to hurriedly begin vaccination without ensuring that the vaccines’ risks have been verified,” he said.

It's not informed? It may not agree with what you believe, but it's based off those two reports above which have both come out witin the past week. Sorry if I'm hesitant to be well-run countries guinea pig with a vaccine technology that has never existed prior. 

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7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Don't want to take this off-course so I'll just say this is 100% true, but do we really want to be taking a vaccine that countries that managed the virus well aren't taking yet for safety reasons, just because our leadership screwed up? I want to take a vaccine because it's safe, not because my government fucked up managing the virus.

As for your second point, I understand that view for sure and can see that being the reason. I don't have much faith in ownership though, but you could absolutely be correct.

At this point, yes. This disease is a disaster. It isn't ideal that we can't wait, but given the choice between waiting and the current nightmare? 

If MLB wants an excuse to shorten their season, I'm not going to look at it as a bad thing. Literally as you said above, ballparks shouldn't be open until people have had the vaccine broadly. People shouldn't be gathering at bars and restaurants to watch games. If baseball waits until they can get all their people covered at least, it improves safety for literally everyone. And yes, the owners save money.

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

At this point, yes. This disease is a disaster. It isn't ideal that we can't wait, but given the choice between waiting and the current nightmare? 

If MLB wants an excuse to shorten their season, I'm not going to look at it as a bad thing. Literally as you said above, ballparks shouldn't be open until people have had the vaccine broadly. People shouldn't be gathering at bars and restaurants to watch games. If baseball waits until they can get all their people covered at least, it improves safety for literally everyone. And yes, the owners save money.

Agree 100%; and I want to be safe first. I also want them to just play without fans because I'm selfish lol

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4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Don't want to take this off-course so I'll just say this is 100% true, but do we really want to be taking a vaccine that countries that managed the virus well aren't taking yet for safety reasons, just because our leadership screwed up? I want to take a vaccine because it's safe, not because my government fucked up managing the virus.

As for your second point, I understand that view for sure and can see that being the reason. I don't have much faith in ownership though, but you could absolutely be correct.

The vaccine has been tested a fair amount.   Maybe not as much as desired but I think its enough to show there will be minimal complications if any.   I believe the complications of continuing to let the virus ravage this country are far worse than  that may be caused by the vaccine.   

We are so lucky that sports has not had a player die yet from continuing to push games onto the schedule.    I know that athletes fit the demographic where the impact is not traditionally as powerful as it is on older people, but if we keep pushing the envelope, its going to happen.

Would the fan base continue saying it was a good decision to start spring training in February if one of our evolving stars caught the virus and passed away early in the season?

Personally, I think its crazy we are playing any sports now and we need to look at priorities in this country.

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29 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Honestly, some version of “you can’t go to a baseball or basketball game unless you have had the vaccine and all our players who can will do it in a public event on May 1” as a way to push the population to get it, that isn’t a bad strategy. It’s not the government pushing it but a private organization, there’s a reward even if it is “getting to spend money”, and there’s a good press day involved for everyone.

I love this in principle but I can't see the MLB enacting that and dealing with the blowback. A bunch of our are going to say that taking a vaccine is against their religion, or whatever reason they want to use, and forcing them to take it in order to attend a game infringes on their liberties

 I see that just being a quagmire for MLB to enforce, and a PR nightmare when faced with turning people away who feel it's their right to not get vaccinated.

Like I said, I'm for it. It's like a "no shirt, no service" rule at a far grander scale, but that's also why I don't think MLB will/can do it, unfortunately.

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1 minute ago, sin city sox fan said:

The vaccine has been tested a fair amount.   Maybe not as much as desired but I think its enough to show there will be minimal complications if any.   I believe the complications of continuing to let the virus ravage this country are far worse than  that may be caused by the vaccine.   

We are so lucky that sports has not had a player die yet from continuing to push games onto the schedule.    I know that athletes fit the demographic where the impact is not traditionally as powerful as it is on older people, but if we keep pushing the envelope, its going to happen.

Would the fan base continue saying it was a good decision to start spring training in February if one of our evolving stars caught the virus and passed away early in the season?

Personally, I think its crazy we are playing any sports now and we need to look at priorities in this country.

I actually agree with this as well; especially college sports. No idea why we have college kids (hoping Keyontae is ok) playing sports for profit right now and being put at risk. 

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4 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

I love this in principle but I can't see the MLB enacting that and dealing with the blowback. A bunch of our are going to say that taking a vaccine is against their religion, or whatever reason they want to use, and forcing them to take it in order to attend a game infringes on their liberties

 I see that just being a quagmire for MLB to enforce, and a PR nightmare when faced with turning people away who feel it's their right to not get vaccinated.

Like I said, I'm for it. It's like a "no shirt, no service" rule at a far grander scale, but that's also why I don't think MLB will/can do it, unfortunately.

I just want to know how you enforce that.  Force people to take a vaccine receipt from cvs to the box office to review?  Come on now, there isn't gonna be some kind of vaccine registry or anything like that

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3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I actually agree with this as well; especially college sports. No idea why we have college kids (hoping Keyontae is ok) playing sports for profit right now and being put at risk. 

Many college basketball teams have cancelled as many (if not more games) than they've played.   And games that are taking place are often being scheduled with just a few days notice.   I know the NCAA is doing it to try and reach the payoff of March Madness, but I don't see anyway that happens.   I'm not a Coach K fan but I thought his idea of delaying the season and shooting for a May Madness this year was appropriate under the circumstances.

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1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

I just want to know how you enforce that.  Force people to take a vaccine receipt from cvs to the box office to review?  Come on now, there isn't gonna be some kind of vaccine registry or anything like that

In Nevada, I know they've talked about getting a card when you are vaccinated.   There has also been some mention of an app but I'm not sure how viable that is as not 100% of people have a smart phone.    Just as vaccines are required for kids going to school though, we are going to face a situation with sporting events and concerts here that will require attendees to have the covid vaccine and logistics will have to be worked out.

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4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I just want to know how you enforce that.  Force people to take a vaccine receipt from cvs to the box office to review?  Come on now, there isn't gonna be some kind of vaccine registry or anything like that

This actually makes since to do. If you successfully complete the vaccination you should get a vaccination card. You should not be allowed into public places like stadiums and bars without it. This would encourage people to get the vaccine and ensure people are safe. People have the right to not get the vaccine, but they do not have to right to put other people's lives in danger. This being said, even with the card verification people still should be wearing masks when possible to be extra safe. As far as baseball games go, once you purchase the ticket, security should have a check in line where they verify your vaccination card, if you and your party doesn't have it, you get turned around.  

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Just now, SonofaRoache said:

This actually makes since to do. If you successfully complete the vaccination you should get a vaccination card. You should not be allowed into public places like stadiums and bars without it. This would encourage people to get the vaccine and ensure people are safe. People have the right to not get the vaccine, but they do not have to right to put other people's lives in danger. This being said, even with the card verification people still should be wearing masks when possible to be extra safe. As far as baseball games go, once you purchase the ticket, security should have a check in line where they verify your vaccination card, if you and your party doesn't have it, you get turned around.  

I don't disagree with the above.  But let's just imagine for one second how these people would react to being denied due to that card.  I would take the riteous indignation and anger that anti mask people display right now and multiply it by 100.   "I bought these seats with my money and I'm going to sit in them without a mask and no vaccine"

ita gonna be ugly
 

 

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5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

This actually makes since to do. If you successfully complete the vaccination you should get a vaccination card. You should not be allowed into public places like stadiums and bars without it. This would encourage people to get the vaccine and ensure people are safe. People have the right to not get the vaccine, but they do not have to right to put other people's lives in danger. This being said, even with the card verification people still should be wearing masks when possible to be extra safe. As far as baseball games go, once you purchase the ticket, security should have a check in line where they verify your vaccination card, if you and your party doesn't have it, you get turned around.  

again though, until there's actual proof that the vaccine stops the spread/contagion you can't do something like this. That very likely may happen, but as of today it just hasn't.

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19 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I just want to know how you enforce that.  Force people to take a vaccine receipt from cvs to the box office to review?  Come on now, there isn't gonna be some kind of vaccine registry or anything like that

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2020/11/18/tracking-your-vaccination-or-covid-19-status-may-be-way-to-attend-large-sporting-events-in-near-future/?sh=5b83b18b543d

Interesting article on this subject, including a ticket agency monster like Ticketmaster already developing a process to accomplish this.  

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