Omar Vizquel facing domestic violence accusations

[Dominikk85]

7 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Number two is Mark Belanger, his bat wasn't good enough to lift his overall WAR or his chances at the HOF. And neither is Vizquel.

Mark Belanger: oWAR 14.7; dWAR 39.5; bWAR 40.9; JAWS 36.4 (40th among SS)

Omar Vizquel: oWAR 32.9; dWAR 29.5; bWAR 45.6; JAWS 36.2 (41st among SS)

Average SS HOF: 67.5 bWAR; JAWS 55.3

 

 

I agree, statistically vizquel is not a HOFer.however most baseball people like players, managers and other baseball lifers do think he is a HOFer and think he is a glove got on paar with ozzie.

Stats don't support that but the guys who played with and Against him do see him as a HOFer, especially latin players and coaches.

[South Side Hit Men]

Just now, Dominikk85 said:

I agree, statistically vizquel is not a HOFer.however most baseball people like players, managers and other baseball lifers do think he is a HOFer and think he is a glove got on paar with ozzie.

Stats don't support that but the guys who played with and Against him do see him as a HOFer, especially latin players and coaches.

Hopefully the reporting of his habitual wife beating and the unspecified atrocities committed against at least one or more male White Sox employees in Birmingham help keep him out of the Hall. With continued inductions of players like Tony Perez, Omar Vizquel and Harold Baines, they will need to strip the term Hall of Fame and replace it with Hall Of Decent Players, Many Of Whom Played Too Long.

The bottom line is matching or exceeding the worst player at each position cannot be the benchmark for voting for a candidate. If you fall short against the average Hall of Farmer at your position, than you should not get a vote. Belanger is a Hall of Famer if Vizquel is.

Todd Helton, Mark McGwire, Keith Hernandez, John Olerud, Jason Giambi, and Will Clark all have better JAWS than Perez. Tony Fernandez, Alvin Dark, Miguel Tejada, Jimmy Rollins, Jim Fergosi and Bert Campaneris are ranked higher than Vizquel. It becomes absurd once you go down this path of electing the lowest common denominator, or setting the worst elected player as a benchmark.

#StopTheShame #VoteNoForVizquel

[TaylorStSox]

Any stat that doesn't put Vizquel among the top 3 defensive SS of all time is a broken stat. Smith was the only better fielder over the last 50 years. 

[Dominikk85]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Hopefully the reporting of his habitual wife beating and the unspecified atrocities committed against at least one or more male White Sox employees in Birmingham help keep him out of the Hall. With continued inductions of players like Tony Perez, Omar Vizquel and Harold Baines, they will need to strip the term Hall of Fame and replace it with Hall Of Decent Players, Many Of Whom Played Too Long.

The bottom line is matching or exceeding the worst player at each position cannot be the benchmark for voting for a candidate. If you fall short against the average Hall of Farmer at your position, than you should not get a vote. Belanger is a Hall of Famer if Vizquel is.

Todd Helton, Mark McGwire, Keith Hernandez, John Olerud, Jason Giambi, and Will Clark all have better JAWS than Perez. Tony Fernandez, Alvin Dark, Miguel Tejada, Jimmy Rollins, Jim Fergosi and Bert Campaneris are ranked higher than Vizquel. It becomes absurd once you go down this path of electing the lowest common denominator, or setting the worst elected player as a benchmark.

#StopTheShame #VoteNoForVizquel

I think that recognition by peers does matter though. Yes helton or abreu are better players than vizquel but if you ask mlb players who played from 1990 to 2010 probably 90% say vizquel is the second best fielder of all time and should be in the hall.

Yeah stats don't support that but I doubt mlb players care about jaws or war.

[GREEDY]

He had a very very very good lady friend that lives or lived alone at Lake Point tower.  I'd see him there from time to time.  

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Any stat that doesn't put Vizquel among the top 3 defensive SS of all time is a broken stat. Smith was the only better fielder over the last 50 years. 

Vizquel lasted a lot longer than he could have so far, but Andrelton Simmons’s fielding numbers are on par with Vizquel’s best years.

[Vulture]

3 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Any stat that doesn't put Vizquel among the top 3 defensive SS of all time is a broken stat. Smith was the only better fielder over the last 50 years. 

I don’t know about that that. Three of the guys ahead of him were considered the gold standard until the next guy came along and this over the course of 80 years. Tinker-Aparicio-Ozzie. Then you’ve got Ripken and Bellanger. Ripken obviously not as flashy but the model of efficiency over the course of a long career. Bellanger probably belongs among the first three guys. Vizquel still in the top ten of all players of all time. Seems reasonable to me

[Vulture]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Vizquel lasted a lot longer than he could have so far, but Andrelton Simmons’s fielding numbers are on par with Vizquel’s best years.

His numbers are beyond Omar’s by a good margin and that passes the eye test to me as well. They’d call him a wizard if the name weren’t already taken. He’s the only one I’ve seen that compares with Ozzie

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

I think that recognition by peers does matter though. Yes helton or abreu are better players than vizquel but if you ask mlb players who played from 1990 to 2010 probably 90% say vizquel is the second best fielder of all time and should be in the hall.

Yeah stats don't support that but I doubt mlb players care about jaws or war.

Thankfully players don't vote for the BBHOF, the BBWAA does. Again, not a perfect process, but much better than some crony Reinsdorf run committee.