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2021 Plan for Kopech and Crochet

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1 hour ago, Bad Hombre said:

 

https://www.radio.com/670thescore/podcasts/best-of-the-score-20603/tony-la-russa-on-rejoining-the-white-sox-357967190

TDLR: "So Crochet, Kopech, uh, are, uh, the organization's attitude is that, what's best now. And there's no doubt that Kopech, and probably, possibly Crochet, as a starter later. But for this year, for them and for us, that they start the year in the bullpen. and it makes it deeper and deeper."

So there is hedging and or thinking through what he wanted to reveal there. I believe most people will interpret that direct quote to mean is development of the two primary SP prospects in the White Sox organization takes a back seat to the bullpen needs of 2021.

If the plan is to eventually work both 2-3 + innings well into the season for a good number of appearances to reach 100-120 innings, on the road to becoming starters in 2022, it's a good /  acceptable plan, though I can also see an argument to stretch them out in the minors to start the season.

If they are going 70-80 innings in 2021, with the sole/primary consideration during the season being how do we win "today", be it July 3 or April 29, or September 15, then this will be a long term waste of valuable assets.

Edited by South Side Hit Men

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14 minutes ago, Tony said:

I don’t totally like it and think they could have signed some guys to fairly cheap deals to allow Kopech time in AAA, but look at it this way......what you’re obviously getting at is this speeds up the service time clock for Kopech, he’ll reach Arb status and FA status sooner.......if cost is an issue with Kopech and as fans we believe the Sox won’t spend enough to keep Kopech around, something went VERY right in the development process and we are probably talking about a World Series with the Sox over the next three years. 

Honestly, my big concern with Kopech is if he’s so constrained innings wise this year that he’ll likely also be constrained next year.  He can be a piece of the equation, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think he’ll be fully unleashed until 2023.  And if that is the case, having that extra year of control at the tail-end of our window would be incredibly valuable.  IMO, having Michael pitch out of the bullpen for two months at Charlotte makes way more sense, especially if we’re committed to Crochet being in the major league bullpen.  The bullpen should already be a strength and we can survive with one of these youngsters in AAA to start the season.

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12 minutes ago, flavum said:

It’s a puzzle to distribute 1460 innings. Kopech and Crochet can both get 100 innings out of the pen/spot starting and be fresh for October too. 

But so can Lopez & Rodon.  Kopech could make 20 four inning starts if called up June 1st.  We can someone to fill in the missing 20 innings.

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Putting Vaughn at 1B and Kopech and Crochet in the pen to open the season is a huge Sox olive branch to the players union.  

That's the only thing that makes sense, because losing 1 year control on each of these players is just not anywhere near worth whatever the "reward" here is.

If the Sox are making moves like this, then hopefully other clubs do it also, and hopefully this means we get a full 2022 season.

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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Honestly, my big concern with Kopech is if he’s so constrained innings wise this year that he’ll likely also be constrained next year.  He can be a piece of the equation, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think he’ll be fully unleashed until 2023.  And if that is the case, having that extra year of control at the tail-end of our window would be incredibly valuable.  IMO, having Michael pitch out of the bullpen for two months at Charlotte makes way more sense, especially if we’re committed to Crochet being in the major league bullpen.  The bullpen should already be a strength and we can survive with one of these youngsters in AAA to start the season.

If Kopech has no health issues and get his full innings limit, he'll start in 2022 with unlimited innings.  If I remember correctly, both Buehrle & Sale did just one bullpen year.  

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I'd rather Kopech started the year in the minors and then came up to start (if there was a spot open) or pen after we got the extra year.

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5 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Putting Vaughn at 1B and Kopech and Crochet in the pen to open the season is a huge Sox olive branch to the players union.  

That's the only thing that makes sense, because losing 1 year control on each of these players is just not anywhere near worth whatever the "reward" here is.

If the Sox are making moves like this, then hopefully other clubs do it also, and hopefully this means we get a full 2022 season.

I do think there is something that plays into that, especially with what went down in Seattle. 

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Honestly, my big concern with Kopech is if he’s so constrained innings wise this year that he’ll likely also be constrained next year.  He can be a piece of the equation, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think he’ll be fully unleashed until 2023.  And if that is the case, having that extra year of control at the tail-end of our window would be incredibly valuable.  IMO, having Michael pitch out of the bullpen for two months at Charlotte makes way more sense, especially if we’re committed to Crochet being in the major league bullpen.  The bullpen should already be a strength and we can survive with one of these youngsters in AAA to start the season.

At this point, we have to hope Katz and the Front Office knows better than we do. I would put money on the fact they do.....but we'll see. 

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Just now, manbearpuig said:

I'd rather Kopech started the year in the minors and then came up to start (if there was a spot open) or pen after we got the extra year.

The problem I see with that it then they'd have to plug someone in his slot when he retired for the year and most likely earlier than the current plan.  This plan may allow him to pitch all year.

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I would guess they will build Kopech up to end up starting come July possibly? So he still has enough innings for September/October

I don't hate the idea of Rodon/Kopech in the 5th spot to begin with. 

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28 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

If Kopech has no health issues and get his full innings limit, he'll start in 2022 with unlimited innings.  If I remember correctly, both Buehrle & Sale did just one bullpen year.  

but they also pitched the year before.

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5 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I would guess they will build Kopech up to end up starting come July possibly? So he still has enough innings for September/October

I don't hate the idea of Rodon/Kopech in the 5th spot to begin with. 

IDK how you build up his innings in a bullpen role to then let him start fully this year.

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3 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

but they also pitched the year before.

Buehrle didn't; just 1 second half year in pen with 3 July starts then all pen after.  For Sale 1 & 1/2 years; maybe extra cautious due to his thin frame & arm.  Also was use primarily as closer and setup so maybe he's not the good comparison for Kopech I thought.

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28 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I would guess they will build Kopech up to end up starting come July possibly? So he still has enough innings for September/October

I don't hate the idea of Rodon/Kopech in the 5th spot to begin with. 

Not the Rodon is likely to even be healthy or anything. 

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2 hours ago, Rounding_Third said:

Buehrle didn't; just 1 second half year in pen with 3 July starts then all pen after.  For Sale 1 & 1/2 years; maybe extra cautious due to his thin frame & arm.  Also was use primarily as closer and setup so maybe he's not the good comparison for Kopech I thought.

Sale should always be used as a cautionary tale rather than a comparison. He was almost turned into a permanent reliever when he had arm problems in his first season as a starter, the team even announced they were permanently turning him into their closer when he returned from injury, and he had to have a screaming match with KW and co to be let back into the rotation . Not exactly the way you want to handle things professionally, and teaching Sale that the way to get what he wanted from this team was to have a giant tantrum also probably not great in hindsight. Thank goodness the team listened though.

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12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Sale should always be used as a cautionary tale rather than a comparison. He was almost turned into a permanent reliever when he had arm problems in his first season as a starter, the team even announced they were permanently turning him into their closer when he returned from injury, and he had to have a screaming match with KW and co to be let back into the rotation . Not exactly the way you want to handle things professionally, and teaching Sale that the way to get what he wanted from this team was to have a giant tantrum also probably not great in hindsight. Thank goodness the team listened though.

Man, I completely forgot about that 1st Sale tantrum.  So funny now.

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4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Honestly, my big concern with Kopech is if he’s so constrained innings wise this year that he’ll likely also be constrained next year.  He can be a piece of the equation, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think he’ll be fully unleashed until 2023.  And if that is the case, having that extra year of control at the tail-end of our window would be incredibly valuable.  IMO, having Michael pitch out of the bullpen for two months at Charlotte makes way more sense, especially if we’re committed to Crochet being in the major league bullpen.  The bullpen should already be a strength and we can survive with one of these youngsters in AAA to start the season.

Any time I see these kind of announcements my 1st thought is nothing is written in stone. That's how we all should view it. We don't really know if Kopech or Crochet will start the season in the bullpen. The bullpen isn't bad without them. It just doesn't matter what they are saying now. Seems just as likely they start in the minors depending on how they look in the spring.

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5 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

all season because Crochet and Kopech won't have the stamina to start.. I guess they could piggyback them?

Rodon, Crochet, and Kopech will all be involved in games as openers or in tandem with openers IMO.

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Personally I would start with Kopech in the minors but I am not going to be upset about having his arm in the pen. Our bullpen should be of the very best in the league. 

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Knowing this now makes their lack of pursuit of starting pitching depth looks even more stupid. 

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17 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

Is the minor league season starting on time?  

AAA - Begins April 6th

AA & A Ball - Begins May 4th

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39 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Knowing this now makes their lack of pursuit of starting pitching depth looks even more stupid. 

I agree, but Hahn specifically mentioned Kopech is on a plan similar to that of Julio Urias of the Dodgers. He's going to start and pitch in relief at various points this season.

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2 hours ago, raBBit said:

Personally I would start with Kopech in the minors but I am not going to be upset about having his arm in the pen. Our bullpen should be of the very best in the league. 

I'd be ok pitching him out of the pen after keeping down about 2 months or whatever if is.

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Every pitcher has a limited number of bullets in their arms.

I want as many of those bullets as possible spent in the major leagues.

Smart move by the Sox.

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For the most part, teams don’t take their best rotation prospects and stack them in their MLB bullpen. I don’t get it. We don’t even need them. If you’ll pitch them out of the pen this year, then why not instead get them ready in the minors to start later in the season if bad things happen? If they are  still thought of as starters. 

Edited by Fernando Tatis Jr

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