Jack Parkman Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Chris Sale was in the same boat and threw 58. If he goes multiple innings sometime, they're going to want to rest him for longer afterwards, and if he's moved into a high leverage role of some sort, he won't be going multiple innings very often because you'll want him out there more to win games. Not to mention that it's unlikely they play 162 games, so it could be even less than 71 innings for Crochet. Honestly, I think bringing Crochet to the MLB team was dumb. This has only created more issues for his development. Edited January 8, 2021 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Chris Sale was in the same boat and threw 58. If he goes multiple innings sometime, they're going to want to rest him for longer afterwards, and if he's moved into a high leverage role of some sort, he won't be going multiple innings very often because you'll want him out there more to win games. But Sale was NOT in the same boat because he had built up innings the previous year. He pitched about 130/140 innings in 2010. Also, he pitched in 58 games in 2011, but he threw 71 innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 This would be so short sighted. I shouldn't be surprised considering how often they have miss handled their young pitchers but it doesn't make it any less madening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: This would be so short sighted. I shouldn't be surprised considering how often they have miss handled their young pitchers but it doesn't make it any less madening. Many people keep saying things like this, but I haven't heard a good argument for why this is true. What is wrong with pitching him out of the bullpen for 100 innings this year and then making him a starter in 2022? If he can only go 100 innings this year, what's the better plan? People are acting like they are making this "short-sighted" decision because they want him in the pen to help them win this year. If he can only go 100 innings, why does it matter if it's in the major league bullpen or in the minors starting games? I admit that I am not an expert on this, but nobody is providing a good explanation to support why he should be starting games in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: This would be so short sighted. I shouldn't be surprised considering how often they have miss handled their young pitchers but it doesn't make it any less madening. No it isn’t, especially with the uncertainty of the minor league season. Crochet would arguably get more innings under his belt pitching in the MLB bullpen all season than being a starter in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: What is wrong with pitching him out of the bullpen for 100 innings this year and then making him a starter in 2022? If he can only go 100 innings this year, what's the better plan? Only 1 pitcher in the last decade has thrown 100 innings or more out of the bullpen. That is not a reasonable model to be working with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 30 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Chris Sale was in the same boat and threw 58. If he goes multiple innings sometime, they're going to want to rest him for longer afterwards, and if he's moved into a high leverage role of some sort, he won't be going multiple innings very often because you'll want him out there more to win games. Sale threw 71 in his first full pro season. I see no reason why Crochet couldn't do that plus a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: Many people keep saying things like this, but I haven't heard a good argument for why this is true. What is wrong with pitching him out of the bullpen for 100 innings this year and then making him a starter in 2022? If he can only go 100 innings this year, what's the better plan? People are acting like they are making this "short-sighted" decision because they want him in the pen to help them win this year. If he can only go 100 innings, why does it matter if it's in the major league bullpen or in the minors starting games? I admit that I am not an expert on this, but nobody is providing a good explanation to support why he should be starting games in the minors. Because pitching at max effort for 3-5 hitters a few times a week will not help him develop into a starting pitcher. He has to work as a starter to learn how to consistently command his fastball over extended innings and learn to command his changeup which he will barely ever throw as a reliever. He has a great arm but he's just a thrower right now. He still has to learn how to pitch and he will not be bale to do that working out of a major league bullpen. They're being greedy by sacrificing his long term value. I guess they're happy with him being a thrower when he could be so much more. It requires some patience which they have shown time and time again they do not have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrankinSox Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 You can argue the long term plan all you want, which is fair. But I will say this... With a Hendriks addition and Crochet in the pen all year, our bullpen will be scary good in 2021. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 28 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Not to mention that it's unlikely they play 162 games, so it could be even less than 71 innings for Crochet. Honestly, I think bringing Crochet to the MLB team was dumb. This has only created more issues for his development. Brining him up last may have been a mistake but there is nothing that can be done about that now. They need to worry about what the best plan is currently. Either path if MLB reliever or MiLB starter has advantages and disadvantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Because pitching at max effort for 3-5 hitters a few times a week will not help him develop into a starting pitcher. He has to work as a starter to learn how to consistently command his fastball over extended innings and learn to command his changeup which he will barely ever throw as a reliever. He has a great arm but he's just a thrower right now. He still has to learn how to pitch and he will not be bale to do that working out of a major league bullpen. They're being greedy by sacrificing his long term value. I guess they're happy with him being a thrower when he could be so much more. It requires some patience which they have shown time and time again they do not have. The advantage is that he can learn how to get MLB hitters out. All the innings in the MiLB will not teach him that. He may actually use his secondary pitches less in the MiLB because he may be able to use just his fastball there. He won't be able to start much in the minors anyway due to the innings limit. Next year is when he needs to begin starting whether is be at the majors or minors. Edited January 8, 2021 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Because pitching at max effort for 3-5 hitters a few times a week will not help him develop into a starting pitcher. He has to work as a starter to learn how to consistently command his fastball over extended innings and learn to command his changeup which he will barely ever throw as a reliever. He has a great arm but he's just a thrower right now. He still has to learn how to pitch and he will not be bale to do that working out of a major league bullpen. They're being greedy by sacrificing his long term value. I guess they're happy with him being a thrower when he could be so much more. It requires some patience which they have shown time and time again they do not have. You can coach him to not be a thrower while he's on the major league team. In fact, I prefer him working with the big league coaches at this point. You're not wrong that he won't get starting experience in 2021 with this plan, but with your plan, he won't be getting experience facing major league hitters. Like ptatc said, both options have advantages and disadvantages. I'd much rather him be learning to get major league hitters out while working with our best coaches. You're acting like it's a completely greedy decision based only on helping the team win right now, and I don't think that's true at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Is this where I argue that if they do plan on him as a bullpen piece, then I wish they would use him as a main piece to get Castillo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, fathom said: Is this where I argue that if they do plan on him as a bullpen piece, then I wish they would use him as a main piece to get Castillo I love the guy's talent, but I agree with you here. If they're not going to develop him as a starter, trade him for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, fathom said: Is this where I argue that if they do plan on him as a bullpen piece, then I wish they would use him as a main piece to get Castillo It's feasible. However, I don't think the decision on whether to make him a starter or reliever has been decided. He needs to pitch a full year and stay healthy first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, ptatc said: It's feasible. However, I don't think the decision on whether to make him a starter or reliever has been decided. He needs to pitch a full year and stay healthy first. We’re still talking about 2013 before he’d even be close to a full time starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Just now, Jack Parkman said: I love the guy's talent, but I agree with you here. If they're not going to develop him as a starter, trade him for one. I think the current plan is to develop him as a starter and see how it goes. Having him in the pen this year to build innings doesn't preclude starting next year. He has such a limited innings base that he really can't start this year without shutting him down in July. So its either piggyback him in the minors which is really relieving or be used as a reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, fathom said: We’re still talking about 2013 before he’d even be close to a full time starter. Agreed. Due to his not starting in college and losing the last season to the pandemic, there really is no other option physically. (i know you meant 2023.) Edited January 8, 2021 by ptatc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 11 minutes ago, fathom said: Is this where I argue that if they do plan on him as a bullpen piece, then I wish they would use him as a main piece to get Castillo It kills me to say this but I agree. It's such a waste of a special talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said: It kills me to say this but I agree. It's such a waste of a special talent. That special talent's arm will explode if they make him a full time starter this year. The pandemic really hurt his physical development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, ptatc said: That special talent's arm will explode if they make him a full time starter this year. The pandemic really hurt his physical development. It sucks even more that supposedly he's the only pitcher in baseball affected by the pandemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 10 minutes ago, ptatc said: I think the current plan is to develop him as a starter and see how it goes. Having him in the pen this year to build innings doesn't preclude starting next year. He has such a limited innings base that he really can't start this year without shutting him down in July. So its either piggyback him in the minors which is really relieving or be used as a reliever. I understand that, but it's really hard to balance the "win now"+player development aspect. Crochet's floor is a lights out closer, should he be able to stay healthy. I'm ok with him being in the bullpen this year, but in 2022 he needs to be stretched out. If they're not going to do that, then they should trade him for someone who can start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: It sucks even more that supposedly he's the only pitcher in baseball affected by the pandemic. I think he is one of the few that never started in his college career and lost that chance due to the pandemic and now a fanbase has unrealistic expectation due to where he was drafted and his unique talent Can you find another pitcher drafted near the top who never started in college and is now expected to start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, ptatc said: I think the current plan is to develop him as a starter and see how it goes. Having him in the pen this year to build innings doesn't preclude starting next year. He has such a limited innings base that he really can't start this year without shutting him down in July. So its either piggyback him in the minors which is really relieving or be used as a reliever. I think quite clearly the plan is to try to win this year at the expense of anything else, and hope for the best otherwise. Which is why trading him...is a reasonable idea. Because it could help win this year more than a single inexperienced reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, ptatc said: I think he is one of the few that never started in his college career and lost that chance due to the pandemic and now a fanbase has unrealistic expectation due to where he was drafted and his unique talent Can you find another pitcher drafted near the top who never started in college and is now expected to start? Are we allowed to count guys who start the year in the minor leagues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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