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Briro2021

Since 1990 who is the Sox 2nd best player?

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10 hours ago, MackowiakYakYak said:

Buerhle without a doubt. He gave us the statistics and the best moments. I remember watching Sportscenter and every play had the Buerhle-meter. He had his buzzed save in the World Series. The no hitter and perfect game giving us the Dewayne Wise catch. No contest.

Tarp sliding !

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He sucked as a manager, but I'm amazed that everyone is just ignoring Ventura from consideration here. My vote goes to Buerhle, but Ventura really was the clear #2 on a those competitive teams of the early to mid-90s. He definitely merits recognition in this conversation as much, if not moreso than Konerko.

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1 hour ago, Pants Rowland said:

He sucked as a manager, but I'm amazed that everyone is just ignoring Ventura from consideration here. My vote goes to Buerhle, but Ventura really was the clear #2 on a those competitive teams of the early to mid-90s. He definitely merits recognition in this conversation as much, if not moreso than Konerko.

I was a big fan until August 4, 1993. Then, he gawn.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R3niGu9d_pY

Looks like Starting Lineup Robin Ventura just made a big mistake ...

ee1b201b-161c-44f0-8bd6-ba8f0b7570ce

 

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On 12/19/2020 at 11:35 PM, Quin said:

Career: Buehrle
Peak: Sale
Hitter: Konerko (Both bWAR and fWAR argue Robin over Konerko here, but 2005 alone tips the scales towards Paulie)

I gotta go with Paulie, too.  Tough choice over MB.

What does Hawk like to say?  Don't tell me what you did but rather when you did it.

#3. Santana "get pretty" 3run hr

#2. Fenway orbit shot after Papi/Manny BTB

#1 slam, ofc  

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It always seems messy to include pitchers and maybe even designated hitters in this sort of debate. On days he was playing I'd take Buehrle over Konerko. With a little bit of hindsight I will say that Buehrle is my favorite Sox pitcher of all time. Certainly the only pitcher I bought a ticket to a game specifically because he was starting. If I had to name a second most valuable player behind Thomas, I would pick Konerko. 

But the question is second "best" player. Konerko fell off the HoF ballot, Buehrle is just starting. I think of outside chances of one day telling a cop late at night that you're a hall of fame baseballer, I think Buehrle has the best shot.  So, I'm going to offer Buehrle as my choice. And in less time than you took to read this Mark would have faced two batters and probably have a 1-0 count on the third. 

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On 12/20/2020 at 3:55 AM, South Side Hit Men said:

Top Two Consecutive Seasons bWAR Leaders > 1990 (Individual Players listed once for top two years): 

  • 14.0 F. Thomas (1991-1992)
  • 12.6 C. Sale (2013-2014)
  • 11.5 J. Danks (2008-2009)
  • 11.3 R. Ventura (1991-1992 & 1992-1993)
  • 11.0  M. Buehrle (2001-2002)
  • 10.8 M. Ordonez (2002-2003)
  • 10.7 A. Eaton (2015-2016)
  • 10.2 A. Fernandez (1995-1996)
  • 10.1 T. Raines (1992-1993)
  • 9.9 L. Johnson (1992-1993)
  • 9.7 J. McDowell (1992-1993)
  • 9.4 A. Ramirez (2010-2011); J. Quintana (2015-2016)
  • 9.3 J. Vazquez (2007-2008); J. Abreu (2014-2015)
  • 8.6 W. Alvarez (1993-1994); A. Belle (1997-1998)

Single Season bWAR Leaders > 1990 (6.0+): 

  • 7.3 F. Thomas (1997)
  • 7.2 E. Loaiza (2003)
  • 7.1 A. Belle (1998)
  • 7.0 F. Thomas (1991 & 1992)
  • 6.6 A. Eaton (2016)
  • 6.5 C. Sale (2013)
  • 6.4 F. Thomas (1994); A. Fernandez (1996); J. Danks (2008)
  • 6.3 T. Raines (1992)
  • 6.2 F. Thomas (1993) & J. Vazquez (2007)
  • 6.1 L. Johnson (1993); M. Buehrle (2007); C. Sale (2014)
  • 6.0 R. Ventura (1992); F. Thomas (2000); M. Buehrle (2001)

 

 

Belle was good that year but wasn’t that great until the Sox were out of it. Most of his production came in the second half though I might be wrong

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On 12/20/2020 at 9:40 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

Also, I think the correct answer is:

 

93E81E4D-DA71-4B0A-B559-B6A69FEEC306.jpeg

Lol 

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Depends on what you mean, I guess. Most talented had got to be Chris Sale. He obviously doesn't have the longevity of a Buehrle or Konerko, but he was the best and most dominant player we've had since Frank. A legitimate MVP/Cy Young choice every year should be the criteria. That's Sale.

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14 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Depends on what you mean, I guess. Most talented had got to be Chris Sale. He obviously doesn't have the longevity of a Buehrle or Konerko, but he was the best and most dominant player we've had since Frank. A legitimate MVP/Cy Young choice every year should be the criteria. That's Sale.

Yeah...that's why I went with Sale. They didn't ask who had the best career with the White Sox. They asked who was the 2nd best player. It's Chris Sale and it's not even close.

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4 hours ago, runtheballdown said:

Belle was good that year but wasn’t that great until the Sox were out of it. Most of his production came in the second half though I might be wrong

That was Abreu's MO before this year. Always a better hitter with nothing was on the line. He dispelled that a bit this year. I'll have to see it one more year before I'm convinced. 

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14 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

That was Abreu's MO before this year. Always a better hitter with nothing was on the line. He dispelled that a bit this year. I'll have to see it one more year before I'm convinced. 

It isn't his fault that he never played with anything on the line.  You just can't help yourself with him.  

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In terms of potential to be #1 or #2, Robert is the only player currently who has a possibility of matching Frank Thomas, he is still very young and has a chance to be a HOFer. 

Crochet has a slim chance to match Sale, but injury / ability to start will likely not let him reach his status. Hope I'm wrong, Katz gives me optimism for him and all of the young pitchers on hand to step up over the next few years.

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Magglio Ordonez had some great years with the Sox. He got injured, got mad at Kenny Williams for thinking he was damaged goods . Detroit signed him for 2005 and beyond. Obviously the Sox won the World Series and his replacement in RF was a key cog  so the Sox made the right move not resigning him.

His 8 year career with the Sox included 4 AS games, finished 5th in ROY, 2 Silver Slugger Awards and got MVP votes in 3 of his years.

After a partial 2005 with the Tigers , in 2006 he became an All -Star again and got more MVP votes. In 2007 at age 33 he had the best year of his career became an All-Star for the 6th and final time and finished 2nd in MVP voting. He was astounding that year. Anyone who isn't aware of it should look at his stats from 2007. He had 54 doubles. batted .363 ,.434 OBP  1.029 OPS ,169 wRC+ and 8.0 fWAR. His best fWAR year with the Sox was 5.5 in 1999 when he actually played a good RF but after that because of his knee he got dinged pretty bad for his defense. In 2007 8.0 fWAR year he played solid defense but it was the last time he wasn't a negative value.

I should also point out that Maggs was named in Jose Canseco's book as a steroid user.

But there were some fun times at the old ballpark listening to O Wee O Magglio !

 

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On 12/21/2020 at 10:14 AM, South Side Hit Men said:

I was a big fan until August 4, 1993. Then, he gawn.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R3niGu9d_pY

Looks like Starting Lineup Robin Ventura just made a big mistake ...

ee1b201b-161c-44f0-8bd6-ba8f0b7570ce

 

Oh Good freaking Lord. The internet is obsessed with this stupid crap.

Edited by NO!!MARY!!!
Remove profanity

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