2020 NBA Regular Season Thread

[SoxAce]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

I think we should open our mind up to the idea if Zach had been placed on competitive teams he’d have been much more accelerated with playmaking and off ball. But the last three years he’s been on dumb teams that just watched him anyway.

He's contributed to the dumbness lets not get that twisted. LaVine has never had a high basketball I.Q. But he was always an intriguing player because of his elite athleticism. I commend him for his outstanding work ethic as well. He has improved in every part of his game, even on defense (when he tries). For my money, he's an all star, no question this year (and I say this as not a big LaVine guy).

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

He's contributed to the dumbness lets not get that twisted. LaVine has never had a high basketball I.Q. But he was always an intriguing player because of his elite athleticism. I commend him for his outstanding work ethic as well. He has improved in every part of his game, even on defense (when he tries). For my money, he's an all star, no question this year (and I say this as not a big LaVine guy).

He also is being coached by someone with a clue. Boylen was the Terry Bevington of the NBA.

[bmags]

Very weird that a game in Chicago starts at 8

[bmags]

Poor pat Williams. Tried to help Young on Davis and Lebron abused him with a dive cut

[Balta1701]

this is wonderful.

[scs787]

11 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

this is wonderful.

Adding to the excitement on the court, I really love King and Amin together. Amin being much younger than Funk has added a lot.

 

Tough game last night. Wendell was out and Davis feasted. I like Gafford and Wendell, but the Bulls really need a more well rounded big..... What do we think about Drummund as a free agent next year? His play is "Outdated" and he's getting up there in age but he'd add what this team lacks. 

 

Neither is really sexy but...

Drummund and a 1st round PG

Or

Jrue Holliday and a 1st round big?

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

What is driving the 8PM CT start time?  As a west coaster - love them - but seems really odd the last two games have started at 8PM Central.  

[Chisoxfn]

On 1/24/2021 at 8:19 AM, scs787 said:

Adding to the excitement on the court, I really love King and Amin together. Amin being much younger than Funk has added a lot.

 

Tough game last night. Wendell was out and Davis feasted. I like Gafford and Wendell, but the Bulls really need a more well rounded big..... What do we think about Drummund as a free agent next year? His play is "Outdated" and he's getting up there in age but he'd add what this team lacks. 

 

Neither is really sexy but...

Drummund and a 1st round PG

Or

Jrue Holliday and a 1st round big?

 

 

I've been on the go get Towns (dangle Lauri / WCJ / whomever) but get yourself an elite big.  Maintain your investment in Lavine, Williams. To be honest - I'd dangle White too.  Lauri / WCJ / White are all on my list of guys to trade if I can get an elite player.  I would like to hold on to our current 1st round pick and Lavine/Williams.  

[Balta1701]

 

[Chisoxfn]

16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

 

I would be highly intrigued with Ball. He isn't going to be great - but the Bulls are in dire need of a PG and he is a PG.  White is beyond awful - like beyond as a point guard. I hope we see a switch flip - but I am not optimistic. He is a black hole on offense and defensively he has become a dumpster fire too.  Mentally he is all out of sorts.  As a 2 guard - I just don't like him enough. He's way more 6 man than starter on a good team.  

Not sure what it would take to get Ball - but boy I would love the Bulls grabbing Ball and Towns for a combination of Lauri/Wendell, Porter, and Coby and whatever else might make it work (barring some unprotected 1st round pick).  Ideally you keep one of Wendell / Lauri - but at this point - I don't really care - if I can package some of those guys for 1 or 2 better players - I do it in a heartbeat. 

I assume Lonzo won't be like crazy (in terms of what it takes to get him) - although I could be wrong. But as I said - I'm building around Lavine and Williams and looking to get the rest of the crew better.  I don't think Lavine is a true #1 - but I think with the progression he's made every year, including this years progress, the right thing to do is put some more chips into winning with Lavine and that starts with getting better players around him.  I also think at that point - you still have plenty of flexibility to build from there and still hope to find a true #1.  

Re: Williams - he has a lot to prove - and I know he's had a rough couple games - but I'm more than willing to be patient with him.

Re: Coby White - I have never been less patient with a young player than I can remember. I really hope I'm wrong - but my god, when I watch him, more often than not I don't know if I'm watching a 1st round pick or freaking Blakeny.  Guy is a total dumpster fire in terms of his bball decision making.  His passing his horrific and he goes into prime AI mode way too much (and he isn't anywhere near on AI's level).  Just insanely frustrating.  I try to remind myself year 2 and they are putting him in a really tough position - but good god - he looks HORRID. 

You replaced him with a slightly above league average PG in the starting lineup - with all of the other parts the same - I think we'd see an INSTANT upgrade to the entire unit.  

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I would be highly intrigued with Ball. He isn't going to be great - but the Bulls are in dire need of a PG and he is a PG.  White is beyond awful - like beyond as a point guard. I hope we see a switch flip - but I am not optimistic. He is a black hole on offense and defensively he has become a dumpster fire too.  Mentally he is all out of sorts.  As a 2 guard - I just don't like him enough. He's way more 6 man than starter on a good team.  

Not sure what it would take to get Ball - but boy I would love the Bulls grabbing Ball and Towns for a combination of Lauri/Wendell, Porter, and Coby and whatever else might make it work (barring some unprotected 1st round pick).  Ideally you keep one of Wendell / Lauri - but at this point - I don't really care - if I can package some of those guys for 1 or 2 better players - I do it in a heartbeat. 

I assume Lonzo won't be like crazy (in terms of what it takes to get him) - although I could be wrong. But as I said - I'm building around Lavine and Williams and looking to get the rest of the crew better.  I don't think Lavine is a true #1 - but I think with the progression he's made every year, including this years progress, the right thing to do is put some more chips into winning with Lavine and that starts with getting better players around him.  I also think at that point - you still have plenty of flexibility to build from there and still hope to find a true #1.  

Re: Williams - he has a lot to prove - and I know he's had a rough couple games - but I'm more than willing to be patient with him.

Re: Coby White - I have never been less patient with a young player than I can remember. I really hope I'm wrong - but my god, when I watch him, more often than not I don't know if I'm watching a 1st round pick or freaking Blakeny.  Guy is a total dumpster fire in terms of his bball decision making.  His passing his horrific and he goes into prime AI mode way too much (and he isn't anywhere near on AI's level).  Just insanely frustrating.  I try to remind myself year 2 and they are putting him in a really tough position - but good god - he looks HORRID. 

You replaced him with a slightly above league average PG in the starting lineup - with all of the other parts the same - I think we'd see an INSTANT upgrade to the entire unit.  

I'd rather wait until Ball is a free agent. I think he could be a good fit with this team in a playmaker role under Donovan, but his shooting is still putrid and he's going to be a FA this year.

Re: Coby - it's pretty clear his destiny in Chicago (if he stays) is as a Ben Gordon sparkplug off the bench. We know he's a hard worker and he is in a tough position of trying to finally learn how to be a point guard, but at the NBA level, in a new system, after learning under Egghead. He looks bad right now, but he's look great in the past. 

[Chisoxfn]

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

I'd rather wait until Ball is a free agent. I think he could be a good fit with this team in a playmaker role under Donovan, but his shooting is still putrid and he's going to be a FA this year.

Re: Coby - it's pretty clear his destiny in Chicago (if he stays) is as a Ben Gordon sparkplug off the bench. We know he's a hard worker and he is in a tough position of trying to finally learn how to be a point guard, but at the NBA level, in a new system, after learning under Egghead. He looks bad right now, but he's look great in the past. 

Yeah - I try to remind myself - Coby, round peg / square hole. The thing really irking me is how bad he has been defensively. It takes a rare player who can overcome being a complete black hole defensively and have value purely as a scorer.  I mean - we like to bag on Lavine's D - but Lavine is not a bad on the ball defender, his issue is he has lapses and is a bad help defender (or at least was - he's moved into a more serviceable role).  But Lavine is so different than White in the sense that Lavine has more size and pure athleticism to rely on as well and as a scorer, Lavine is elite. 

White is streaky - but hasn't finished around the hoop, has too many turnovers, is a black hole, and his current shot is just too inconsistent.  It makes the margin for White to actually project into the "best case" scenario just very low.  If his D was solid - that floor projection goes up a ton and defensively he was not bad for a good chunk of last year. 

This could just be the old..."too much thinking" not enough playing as he has been thrust into such a different role than he has ever played.  I really hope that is the case and I will admit, there have been some rare flashes - it just seems like the norm is so bad (in terms of his ability to go full ball hog mode).  There is a reason there are so few Ben Gordon, Lou Williams, Jamaal Crawford types. When you have that few guys - to assume that sort of floor for White I think is tough.  

[Chisoxfn]

18 minutes ago, Quin said:

I'd rather wait until Ball is a free agent. I think he could be a good fit with this team in a playmaker role under Donovan, but his shooting is still putrid and he's going to be a FA this year.

Re: Coby - it's pretty clear his destiny in Chicago (if he stays) is as a Ben Gordon sparkplug off the bench. We know he's a hard worker and he is in a tough position of trying to finally learn how to be a point guard, but at the NBA level, in a new system, after learning under Egghead. He looks bad right now, but he's look great in the past. 

Re: Ball - While I think it is okay to wait on him. I think part of this is more seeing what the whole roster can be with a real point guard. Does that make the team look even better - to where you are starting to think, hey if we can get another good player via trade closer to the deadline (or in the off-season) we are talking about moving up in the world, etc, great.

I don't know that I can deal with a whole season with this sort of shit PG play. I mean the PG play I have seen from the Bulls is about as bad as I've seen. Have the Bulls ever had a worse starting PG? I'm sure they have and I just can't think of it.  I can't remember who played PG when Jordan retired...but I'm sure it was someone crappy.  Khalil El Amin?  I mean he sucked big time, but I don't remember if he started or not.  

[SoxAce]

41 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

 

I'll gladly take Ball. I wanted his brother in the draft, but unfortunately he went a pick above us. Bulls desperately need a playmaking PG.

[Quin]

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

Re: Ball - While I think it is okay to wait on him. I think part of this is more seeing what the whole roster can be with a real point guard. Does that make the team look even better - to where you are starting to think, hey if we can get another good player via trade closer to the deadline (or in the off-season) we are talking about moving up in the world, etc, great.

I don't know that I can deal with a whole season with this sort of shit PG play. I mean the PG play I have seen from the Bulls is about as bad as I've seen. Have the Bulls ever had a worse starting PG? I'm sure they have and I just can't think of it.  I can't remember who played PG when Jordan retired...but I'm sure it was someone crappy.  Khalil El Amin?  I mean he sucked big time, but I don't remember if he started or not.  

That's fair. I wonder what the trade would look like, because if you want Ball long term, what assets are you moving that New Orleans wants?

If they want Sato or Thad as vet presences, you might have something, but I don't really feel the like the Bulls should toss their picks (even second rounders) or young assets like Simonović for a guy they can sign this offseason.

[Chisoxfn]

6 minutes ago, Quin said:

That's fair. I wonder what the trade would look like, because if you want Ball long term, what assets are you moving that New Orleans wants?

If they want Sato or Thad as vet presences, you might have something, but I don't really feel the like the Bulls should toss their picks (even second rounders) or young assets like Simonović for a guy they can sign this offseason.

I assume it would be built around Sato or Thad.  Van Gundy has slowed that offense down, which doesn't really play to Ball's style anyway and my guess is they are looking for more veterans anyway.  I wouldn't trade some young asset for Ball.  

[SoxAce]

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

I assume it would be built around Sato or Thad.  Van Gundy has slowed that offense down, which doesn't really play to Ball's style anyway and my guess is they are looking for more veterans anyway. 

Yup. They're making him become a 3 and D player.. and that is not his game at all. He looked much better under Gentry's fast pace offense last season where he gave him the keys.

[Chisoxfn]

13 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Yup. They're making him become a 3 and D player.. and that is not his game at all. He looked much better under Gentry's fast pace offense last season where he gave him the keys.

The inverse is - with the Bulls pace - it would seem Ball would be a pretty good fit.  Specifically his ability to pass and play D would both be valuable and I think they could cover his lack of a high volume shot given Lauri, Lavine, OPJ, Williams and others can provide spacing.  

[Soxbadger]

I like Ball for free, but Im not sure that the Hornets give him away. If they want him for Thad Young alone thats fine. He has been a good player, but he could be replaced.

[fathom]

Carter is out for an extended period again

[Chisoxfn]

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Carter is out for an extended period again

What was his injury? I know he missed the last 2 games. If he misses another extended streak, there goes any trade value he still had.  And I was really counting on packaging him with other high picks to another team for a better player.  

Edit: Severe quad construsion. Man that has to be a heck of a bruise to miss 4 weeks.  Hope he gets better quicker and mentally can hang in there. I got to think all these various injuries are taking a toll on him mentally.  

[Stinky Stanky]

3 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Re: Ball - While I think it is okay to wait on him. I think part of this is more seeing what the whole roster can be with a real point guard. Does that make the team look even better - to where you are starting to think, hey if we can get another good player via trade closer to the deadline (or in the off-season) we are talking about moving up in the world, etc, great.

I don't know that I can deal with a whole season with this sort of shit PG play. I mean the PG play I have seen from the Bulls is about as bad as I've seen. Have the Bulls ever had a worse starting PG? I'm sure they have and I just can't think of it.  I can't remember who played PG when Jordan retired...but I'm sure it was someone crappy.  Khalil El Amin?  I mean he sucked big time, but I don't remember if he started or not.  

LOL.  I thought it was Khalid and the Web confirmed.  He was somethin', wasn't he?  5th pick in the draft!  I'm holding off senility for another year.  Left the Bulls after a season and embarked on a years long playing tour of what I'd describe as the Holy Roman Empire.

The most important point is that we're discussing Coby by comparing the two and the FO recognizes it, judging by the trade rumors.

[Stinky Stanky]

1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

What was his injury? I know he missed the last 2 games. If he misses another extended streak, there goes any trade value he still had.  And I was really counting on packaging him with other high picks to another team for a better player.  

Edit: Severe quad construsion. Man that has to be a heck of a bruise to miss 4 weeks.  Hope he gets better quicker and mentally can hang in there. I got to think all these various injuries are taking a toll on him mentally.  

Thigh bruises are nasty stuff.  It's long ago, but the toughest Bull of all, Jerry Sloan, was out a similar time with the same thing.  (Admitting my age again)

[bmags]

12 minutes ago, Stinky Stanky said:

LOL.  I thought it was Khalid and the Web confirmed.  He was somethin', wasn't he?  5th pick in the draft!  I'm holding off senility for another year.  Left the Bulls after a season and embarked on a years long playing tour of what I'd describe as the Holy Roman Empire.

The most important point is that we're discussing Coby by comparing the two and the FO recognizes it, judging by the trade rumors.

Whoa whoa whoa he was fifth pick of the SECOND round.

He was bad.

But we don’t have to go back that far. The games where I had to watch MCW and jerian grant play. Woof

[Chisoxfn]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Whoa whoa whoa he was fifth pick of the SECOND round.

He was bad.

But we don’t have to go back that far. The games where I had to watch MCW and jerian grant play. Woof

Somehow I blocked out the MCW and Jerian Grant era. Although MCW had like 1 week right at the start of his tenure with the Bulls where for a nanosecond I said - maybe he has rekindled that ROY form. It quickly dissipated. 

On topic of Bulls - despite a rough past 2 games - they are still 7-10 despite I think the 3rd toughest SOS through the first 17 games of the season. This includes a number of last minute losses. When you consider youngest avg. starting lineup in the league, new coach, and greatly shortened preseason - all of those are good things (from a glass half full perspective).  

The downside is - this team has won a lot of games because of guys like Temple and the bench vs. because of stellar play from White or Lauri, but it is still early and in general I've enjoyed most of the games (sans the 1st two games of the season and these past 2 games and even yesterday's game - take away that blitz to start the 3rd quarter and overall despite being down, the Bulls were hanging in there...if they could have gotten anything out of Gafford, White, Sato - it would have been a bit interesting.  

Gafford is quickly showing he is a high energy bench guy and not a starter (at least not yet). Defensively he's gotten exposed trying to defend the perimeter on more dynamic bigs who can space the court too.