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Trade Whispers - Starting Pitchers

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7 minutes ago, Quin said:

Just to remind everyone...

The Food Guys / NSC have said the package for a starter would be Madrigal, Heuer + xyz

@Y2Jimmy0 has been pretty clear all off-season that Kopech, Vaughn, and Crochet are off the table in trades.

James is also the one who hinted at Burnes.

I really think they’re shopping around a Madrigal + Heuer + Stiever package for a cost controlled starter and seeing if they can get anyone to bite.

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So we drafted Madrigal in the top 5 , he hasn’t played a year yet and we want to ship him off? Seems like a wasted pick to  me and then we would need to find an everyday second baseman. These number 1 and number 2 choices that we  sacrificed years to rebuild have to stay in the org and grow together. Seems pre- mature to give up on Madrigal now unless he has reached full potential. I just wouldn’t trade for a pitcher using our key prospects. Sign a number 4 and let cease and kopech develop under Katz . Sometime this year kopech will BE up and so will crochet. 

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8 minutes ago, quickman said:

So we drafted Madrigal in the top 5 , he hasn’t played a year yet and we want to ship him off? Seems like a wasted pick to  me and then we would need to find an everyday second baseman. These number 1 and number 2 choices that we  sacrificed years to rebuild have to stay in the org and grow together. Seems pre- mature to give up on Madrigal now unless he has reached full potential. I just wouldn’t trade for a pitcher using our key prospects. Sign a number 4 and let cease and kopech develop under Katz . Sometime this year kopech will BE up and so will crochet. 

I'm fine with either option. Signing a guy like Q is obviously the safe route. But if we get Burnes and he pitches anywhere near like he did last year for the next 4 years, we're going to be the favorite out of the AL every year. 

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10 minutes ago, quickman said:

So we drafted Madrigal in the top 5 , he hasn’t played a year yet and we want to ship him off? Seems like a wasted pick to  me and then we would need to find an everyday second baseman. These number 1 and number 2 choices that we  sacrificed years to rebuild have to stay in the org and grow together. Seems pre- mature to give up on Madrigal now unless he has reached full potential. I just wouldn’t trade for a pitcher using our key prospects. Sign a number 4 and let cease and kopech develop under Katz . Sometime this year kopech will BE up and so will crochet. 

There are plenty of viable options out there still for 2B. La Stella in particular is a really good fit for this team at 2B. I'd almost argue he's a better option than Madrigal. Trading Madrigal would most likely get you a much better arm than what is currently available in the free agent market. I'd be ok with that if that's the plan.

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Hmm, seems odd that Milwaukee would shop Burnes. Not sure I buy that.

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9 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

There are plenty of viable options out there still for 2B. La Stella in particular is a really good fit for this team at 2B. I'd almost argue he's a better option than Madrigal. Trading Madrigal would most likely get you a much better arm than what is currently available in the free agent market. I'd be ok with that if that's the plan.

You maybe right but if that’s the case then we should not have drafted him so high. We will wait and see. Payroll is always an obstacle and Madrigal is cheap and an everyday player. Hopefully something happens soon. I really do like Huer as a 7th inning option. Foster, and Marshall are sixth inning options, Frye is more situational .  Whenever you have young starters you need a shut down bullpen. Huer would be missed. Anyway, we will see, very fun times .

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22 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Hmm, seems odd that Milwaukee would shop Burnes. Not sure I buy that.

Milwaukee may be Sox one stop shop for the rest of the offseason needs.

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6 minutes ago, Pal said:

Milwaukee may be Sox one stop shop for the rest of the offseason needs.

Yelich and Burnes. Nice.

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47 minutes ago, quickman said:

So we drafted Madrigal in the top 5 , he hasn’t played a year yet and we want to ship him off? Seems like a wasted pick to  me and then we would need to find an everyday second baseman. These number 1 and number 2 choices that we  sacrificed years to rebuild have to stay in the org and grow together. Seems pre- mature to give up on Madrigal now unless he has reached full potential. I just wouldn’t trade for a pitcher using our key prospects. Sign a number 4 and let cease and kopech develop under Katz . Sometime this year kopech will BE up and so will crochet. 

I agree.  Use free-agency to find your pitcher.  There are TOR guys and back of rotation guys that cost nothing but money.  Let Katz do his work and for goodness sakes...stop with the Madrigal/Vaughn trade ideas.  I understand that anyone can be traded but this trading 3 top prospects for 1 perceived TOR guy is not how to build a perennial winner.

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21 minutes ago, Pal said:

Milwaukee may be Sox one stop shop for the rest of the offseason needs.

Who you thinking besides Burnes?

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Can someone confirm the proposed roster size for 2021? Is it back to 25?

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Googles milwaukee brewers roster 

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14 minutes ago, Flash said:

Can someone confirm the proposed roster size for 2021? Is it back to 25?

Should be 26, 13 pitcher and 13 hitters.

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57 minutes ago, Pal said:

Milwaukee may be Sox one stop shop for the rest of the offseason needs.

Starting pitching and what else are you thinking?

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13 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Should be 26, 13 pitcher and 13 hitters.

Thanks!

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Burnes for Madrigal + Heuer + Stiever + Sheets.

Who says no?  Probably the Brewers, but that’s a lot of major league ready or near major league ready pieces for a mid-market team that could be open to retooling.  It probably depends on how they view Stiever, but he’s the closest thing we have to a major league ready pitching prospect with any sort of ceiling (not including Kopech).  I’m sure most clubs view Kelley as the superior prospect, but I’d imagine the Brewers would want pieces that are closer to the majors to even consider moving Burnes.  Still very interesting to think about.

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Are we going to start being Bulls fans when they didn't want to trade Deng in a deal for Kobe?  Seriously, I know none of these guys are that guy like Kobe was but for the love being content with signing an aging #4 starter and assuming that your kids are going to be ready for primetime this year isn't a good idea.  Nick Madrigal is a nice player and I like him, but dropping 10-15 million on an eh #4 starter and a questionable 5 hole on a championship caliber team isn't busting the window open, it's cracking it open barely and hoping we get a breeze.  Pitching wins titles.  If our scouting has decided that they can get a #3 or above caliber starter for the 3 guys that keep being mentioned, you do it.

The day after you do it, you sign LaStella or Wong and take the extra money you have and wait until the trade deadline or bargain shop for a DH in about 2 weeks.  Going into last year, it seems like the Sox always find 1-2 new quality arms for the pen from their system.  It's a machine.  Take advantage of it.  You have tons of SP in your system.  Go get the freaking MLB quality pitcher and let's go win now.  Tomorrow is not guaranteed.  A move with those 3 guys leaves you zero glaring holes.    Rant over.  Have a super night and go Sox!

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7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Burnes for Madrigal + Heuer + Stiever + Sheets.

Who says no?  Probably the Brewers, but that’s a lot of major league ready or near major league ready pieces for a mid-market team that could be open to retooling.  It probably depends on how they view Stiever, but he’s the closest thing we have to a major league ready pitching prospect with any sort of ceiling (not including Kopech).  I’m sure most clubs view Kelley as the superior prospect, but I’d imagine the Brewers would want pieces that are closer to the majors to even consider moving Burnes.  Still very interesting to think about.

I’d do that for sure. I don’t care about Stiever or Sheets. While losing Madrigal would hurt, a guy like La Stella is capable of providing just as much production, and the Sox could probably live without Heuer too. Burnes has the potential to be a top of the rotation arm and is controlled for a LONG time.

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7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Burnes for Madrigal + Heuer + Stiever + Sheets.

Who says no?  Probably the Brewers, but that’s a lot of major league ready or near major league ready pieces for a mid-market team that could be open to retooling.  It probably depends on how they view Stiever, but he’s the closest thing we have to a major league ready pitching prospect with any sort of ceiling (not including Kopech).  I’m sure most clubs view Kelley as the superior prospect, but I’d imagine the Brewers would want pieces that are closer to the majors to even consider moving Burnes.  Still very interesting to think about.

I know Burnes was phenomenal last year, but he was putrid in 2019 in a roughly equal sample. His pitch data changed significantly, also, but I need a better track record for that package. 

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Do people think Burnes can go an entire season's worth of innings?  He hasn't even hit 100 innings since 2017 in the minors. What is his story?

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26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Do people think Burnes can go an entire season's worth of innings?  He hasn't even hit 100 innings since 2017 in the minors. What is his story?

Let me tell you the tale of Edwin Jackson, the white whale of prospects.

Its easy to fall in love with the green grass on the other side of the fence. 

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35 minutes ago, Blackout Friday said:

I know Burnes was phenomenal last year, but he was putrid in 2019 in a roughly equal sample. His pitch data changed significantly, also, but I need a better track record for that package. 

I totally get the uncertainty, but I don’t think he’s gettable for that package if he has a better track record.  The Sox would gambling on the 2020 version of Burnes being legit, but the upside would be tremendous.  But given the new pitches and the mix shift to his high end secondaries there is reason to believe the former top 50 prospect has finally figured his shit out.

If this team really wants to dominate the Central for the next half decade, trade for Burnes and then extend Gioltio & Lynn for five & two years respectively.  All of a sudden you’re looking at what could easily be the deepest, most talented rotation in baseball.  Perhaps it’s a bit of overkill, but with the overall strength of our lineup & bullpen we could legit pull something like this off.

  1. Lucas Giolito - 5 years
  2. Lance Lynn - 3 years
  3. Corbin Burnes - 4 years
  4. Dallas Keuchel* - 2 years
  5. Dylan Cease - 5 years
  6. Michael Kopech - 6 years
  7. Garret Crochet* - 6 years

And you’d still have a wave of guys in Kelley, Thompson, Dalquist, & Vera who are three or four years out!

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54 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I totally get the uncertainty, but I don’t think he’s gettable for that package if he has a better track record.  The Sox would gambling on the 2020 version of Burnes being legit, but the upside would be tremendous.  But given the new pitches and the mix shift to his high end secondaries there is reason to believe the former top 50 prospect has finally figured his shit out.

If this team really wants to dominate the Central for the next half decade, trade for Burnes and then extend Gioltio & Lynn for five & two years respectively.  All of a sudden you’re looking at what could easily be the deepest, most talented rotation in baseball.  Perhaps it’s a bit of overkill, but with the overall strength of our lineup & bullpen we could legit pull something like this off.

  1. Lucas Giolito - 5 years
  2. Lance Lynn - 3 years
  3. Corbin Burnes - 4 years
  4. Dallas Keuchel* - 2 years
  5. Dylan Cease - 5 years
  6. Michael Kopech - 6 years
  7. Garret Crochet* - 6 years

And you’d still have a wave of guys in Kelley, Thompson, Dalquist, & Vera who are three or four years out!

That’s a good argument. And I makes me feel better about it. But the way I see it, we already have some high upside arms in-house whereby we can dream on upside. Burnes saw his for a decent stretch, but I’d rather get a boring innings guy for only money and see if our guys can fill out the rest. 

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40 minutes ago, Blackout Friday said:

That’s a good argument. And I makes me feel better about it. But the way I see it, we already have some high upside arms in-house whereby we can dram up upside. Burnes saw his for a decent stretch, but I’d rather get a boring innings guy for only money and see if our guys can fill out the rest. 

Are we twins or something?

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