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Trade Whispers - Starting Pitchers

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Andujar - guy can't play defense, and while he has shown capable offensive production, he is entirely replaceable. Was going to be traded for practically nothing last year. He's worthless.

Frazier - If I recall, he also can't play defense well.

 

Gurantee Reds get different pieces

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27 minutes ago, bmags said:

Frazier is obviously a really good talent but the dude is in Arb 1 just like Castillo, and andujar is a reclamation and tough position ally. I don’t don’t that’s the best talent package but a curious one for reds to make.

Fully agree...makes no sense IMO.

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3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Aren’t both guys butchers in the field?  I honestly can’t believe the Reds would be targeting guys like that for Castillo.  Where would they even play?

Not Frazier. He has genuinely improved as a fielder in 2020 (especially at RF). Put up 1.7 bWAR in 39 games overall.

Andujar on the hand may just be a buy low candidate whose future is likely DH.

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1 hour ago, bmags said:

It is insane how Teheran is only 29. 

Taijuan Walker is 28. I've been beating his drum for a long time. Love that he finished super strong as an indicator to me that he is now strong after TJ surgery.

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6 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Not Frazier. He has genuinely improved as a fielder in 2020 (especially at RF). Put up 1.7 bWAR in 39 games overall.

Andujar on the hand may just be a buy low candidate whose future is likely DH.

Did he actually improve or did he simply play better in a small sample?

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3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Taijuan Walker is 28. I've been beating his drum for a long time. Love that he finished super strong as an indicator to me that he is now strong after TJ surgery.

And Teheran's only stumble was caused by covid and no significant injuries over his strong career.  I'd be very happy with either.  Both would be better! :)   

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27 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Aren’t both guys butchers in the field?  I honestly can’t believe the Reds would be targeting guys like that for Castillo.  Where would they even play?

Watch them do a one for one swap of Castillo for Torres

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15 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

And Teheran's only stumble was caused by covid and no significant injuries over his strong career.  I'd be very happy with either.  Both would be better! :)   

Teheran seems likelier to be out of baseball in a few years than being productive. I would pass.

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You know who I would rather have than most of these mediocre starters if we’re taking a chance on a rebound season?  Carlos Rodon 

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14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Did he actually improve or did he simply play better in a small sample?

Couldn’t the same question be asked of any Sox players who played better in 2020?

And Yankees don’t have to convince us Sox fans Frazier is a budding star, they just have to get Reds to buy it.

But to answer your question, Frazier has been a large chunk of quarantine focusing on his defense because that’s the only way he was going to get on the field on that team. Defensive metrics show he’s above average to good in many defensive categories, and FWIW he had a GG nomination as well.

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2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Teheran seems likelier to be out of baseball in a few years than being productive. I would pass.

What makes you think that?

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Gleyber Torres + ____ for Castillo makes a lot more sense. Reds need a SS. Torres + Frazier + One of the SP Prospects like Clarke

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2 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

What makes you think that?

Velocity below 90 mph and can’t keep the ball in the park for a RHP is a bad combo in today’s game.

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8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Watch them do a one for one swap of Castillo for Torres

Now that would make much more sense for the Reds given their current roster.

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1 hour ago, bmags said:

I think Odorizzi would also be really strong but he also appears priced out.

I wanted Odorizzi all winter. I'd rather have Odorizzi+Dunning than Lynn. However if the budgetary restraints are very real, then Lynn's 8.5M salary for 2021 is a huge factor in the acquisition. 

BTW if Lynn regresses  I don't think it will be to complete suck but to what he's always been, which is a 3-3.5 fWAR guy. Still valuable, but not worth Dunning on a 1 year rental. 

BTW based on how slow this winter is and the CBA being up, at least 2022 is fucked and the threat of a strike in August or September is very real. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

But even then you don’t know. Q sliced his finger, but then had a lat issue. Will that be a problem moving forward, or is it a sign he is starting to fall apart? Who knows.Most of these guys are better than Gio Gonzalez. I am not worried about that. But you are right, lucky is the word when and if this signing happens. Probably a couple of these guys will be really good in 2021.

My view is that the team in spring training will be different than the team at the TDL, which will be different than the team when rosters expand. IOW, at THIS POINT in the evolution of the roster, they only need to get to the TDL with whomever they pickup to round out the rotation. 

I think too many here cling to the (incorrect, IMO) idea that the roster will be finished NOW.

 

As it pertains to the options on offer, I think that making a trade is an inferior option to a FA signing at this point. This is because spending trade assets now means that there will be fewer at the TDL to use then. I also don't see Q or Richards to be in the same tranche of SPs as Gio Gonzalez. I think Q or Richards are closer to their successful season(s), and are more likely to get us to the TDL, reasonably healthy and in contention.

 

At the TDL, maybe Cease gets his head out of his rectum, and has his BB/9IP @ a non-vomit worthy level. Or maybe there's a rental that could be had for cheap. Or maybe Kopech is on form.

Finally, when rosters expand, if they play their cards correctly, there might be a bullet or two to use then. 

In sum, I don't think that a massive move is really needed right now. I think an affordable SP who can get us to the TDL is what this roster needs at the moment. Would I love it if Bauer is the move?

Sure. But I don't see it happening, and I don't see it as being necessary, TBH.

Edited by Two-Gun Pete

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17 minutes ago, fathom said:

You know who I would rather have than most of these mediocre starters if we’re taking a chance on a rebound season?  Carlos Rodon 

Give me Taijuan Walker at this point. Or offer Tanaka 1 year/ $11 mill (what Kluber got) and see if he takes it. Tack on an option with like $2 mill buyout for more guaranteed money?

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1 minute ago, manbearpuig said:

Give me Taijuan Walker at this point. Or offer Tanaka 1 year/ $11 mill (what Kluber got) and see if he takes it. Tack on an option with like $2 mill buyout for more guaranteed money?

Tanaka is not taking a one year deal.

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3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Velocity below 90 mph and can’t keep the ball in the park for a RHP is a bad combo in today’s game.

Throw out 2020.   He can be wild and give up some dingers but still eats innings at a decent era.  He has a few blowups most mostly has solid outings.  If has a good showing Tuesday, there'll be a lot of interested teams.     

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5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Tanaka is not taking a one year deal.

We'll see if he ends up needing to settle for one.

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Richards at $10 mill would be a bad investment. At that price, give me someone who can at least be an innings eater like Q (outside of a freak injury last year).

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56 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Andujar - guy can't play defense, and while he has shown capable offensive production, he is entirely replaceable. Was going to be traded for practically nothing last year. He's worthless.

Frazier - If I recall, he also can't play defense well.

 

Gurantee Reds get different pieces

Yeah those two are nowhere near enough for Castillo. 

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7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Tanaka is not taking a one year deal.

There was a report a few weeks ago that if they couldn't re-engage with the Yankees he was strongly considering returning to NPB. 

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20 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I wanted Odorizzi all winter. I'd rather have Odorizzi+Dunning than Lynn. However if the budgetary restraints are very real, then Lynn's 8.5M salary for 2021 is a huge factor in the acquisition. 

BTW if Lynn regresses  I don't think it will be to complete suck but to what he's always been, which is a 3-3.5 fWAR guy. Still valuable, but not worth Dunning on a 1 year rental. 

BTW based on how slow this winter is and the CBA being up, at least 2022 is fucked and the threat of a strike in August or September is very real. 

With the loss of money and this season being ran by Vovid again, I don't think we see a strike anymore. Baseball could not afford a strike after two Covid seasons that had minimal fans. That would be a death sentence. 

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4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

There was a report a few weeks ago that if they couldn't re-engage with the Yankees he was strongly considering returning to NPB. 

Damn. Looks more likely he'd go back there then. You'd at least think he would consider the Asian-popular West Coast.

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