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Trade Whispers - Starting Pitchers

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21 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I join you in the opinion that Gray is just OK.  Still living on his Oakland reputation.  For me he is a #4 type and Madrigal would be a real screwing.  No thanks.

He’s not living on his Oakland reputation at all. Sox are buying his Reds production.

Gray is a pitcher who is fortunate to have modern pitching strategies take over. He has a mediocre four-seam fb with great secondaries. Reuniting with his Vandy pitching coach made him comfortable with reducing his four seamer and living on his secondary pitches (whatever they were). He’s been much more successful.

The same goes for musgrove who was just starting to lean into this. Katz will be as good for Gray as Cinci was.

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16 minutes ago, bmags said:

He’s not living on his Oakland reputation at all. Sox are buying his Reds production.

Gray is a pitcher who is fortunate to have modern pitching strategies take over. He has a mediocre four-seam fb with great secondaries. Reuniting with his Vandy pitching coach made him comfortable with reducing his four seamer and living on his secondary pitches (whatever they were). He’s been much more successful.

The same goes for musgrove who was just starting to lean into this. Katz will be as good for Gray as Cinci was.

I don't mind Gray instead of Q or Richards type.  Just think he is that type and would not give up Madrigal to get him.

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Just now, poppysox said:

I don't mind Gray instead of Q or Richards type.  Just think he is that type and would not give up Madrigal to get him.

I get that. He’s not my fav considering it feels like those times were giving our A package for the fifth name on our list.

But, I just think he’s better than saying he’s a #4 guy.

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4 minutes ago, bmags said:

I get that. He’s not my fav considering it feels like those times were giving our A package for the fifth name on our list.

But, I just think he’s better than saying he’s a #4 guy.

Number #4  is where he is on the WS.  Certainly, he is not the guy you pencil in for the win when it's his turn.  I do agree he gives you the chance to win which is all I ask out of #4 and #5 starters.

 

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Just asking - is anyone concerned that some NL Central pitchers' numbers are fluffed up because these pitchers faced garbage offenses most nights?

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7 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Just asking - is anyone concerned that some NL Central pitchers' numbers are fluffed up because these pitchers faced garbage offenses most nights?

Not really no.

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15 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Just asking - is anyone concerned that some NL Central pitchers' numbers are fluffed up because these pitchers faced garbage offenses most nights?

The fact that Adam Dunn and Adam LaRoche were starring with reputations earned against NL pitchers is always in the back of my mind.

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3 hours ago, Flash said:

Where did you pick up on this rumor? I would be shocked if Brewers are dangling Woodruff.

It’s been around since the deadline last year.  There might be nothing to it, but I’m sure that’s the case with most rumors this site dissects for 50 pages at a time.  
 

They are likely just listening to offers, as they should be, and why it’s pretty safe to assume they only trade him for an insane haul (starts with Kopech and Vaughn).  

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2 hours ago, Sarava said:

Just asking - is anyone concerned that some NL Central pitchers' numbers are fluffed up because these pitchers faced garbage offenses most nights?

YESSS. ive been saying it along with Darvish and Bauer. Not knocking those guys but that division was the worst hitting division by far so I would proceed with caution with any pitcher from that division.

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2 hours ago, Sarava said:

Just asking - is anyone concerned that some NL Central pitchers' numbers are fluffed up because these pitchers faced garbage offenses most nights?

Have you seen the Indians, Tigers and Royals lineups?

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7 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said:

Have you seen the Indians, Tigers and Royals lineups?

Have you seen the Sox and Twins?  The NL Central was by far the worst offensive division.. And that's all they played

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2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Have you seen the Sox and Twins?  The NL Central was by far the worst offensive division.. And that's all they played

ok so vs. the ALC Gray went

18 IP, 9 H, 4 ER, 21 Ks, 8 BBs, 2.00 ERA

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9 minutes ago, bmags said:

ok so vs. the ALC Gray went

18 IP, 9 H, 4 ER, 21 Ks, 8 BBs, 2.00 ERA

^^^ This

The AL-to-NL thing might have carried more weight in yesteryear when interleague was more limited, but now we need to stop looking at it like every NL player is coming to the AL as if they were damaged goods.

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2 hours ago, Sarava said:

Just asking - is anyone concerned that some NL Central pitchers' numbers are fluffed up because these pitchers faced garbage offenses most nights?

Is this the same type of argument that Gio's no-hitter wasn't impressive because it came against the Pirates' "garbage offense"?

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5 minutes ago, Quin said:

^^^ This

The AL-to-NL thing might have carried more weight in yesteryear when interleague was more limited, but now we need to stop looking at it like every NL player is coming to the AL as if they were damaged goods.

And last year the NL had a DH!

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3 hours ago, poppysox said:

Number #4  is where he is on the WS.  Certainly, he is not the guy you pencil in for the win when it's his turn.  I do agree he gives you the chance to win which is all I ask out of #4 and #5 starters.

 

Sonny Gray just made his 32nd consecutive start allowing 6 hits or fewer, a new Major League record, excluding "openers." He was sharing the record with Nolan Ryan. 👏

 

Just saying ... if that's your #4 then you're up there with the Dodgers and Padres for best rotation. 

Sonny Gray is exactly like Quintana when he was with the Sox - super underappreciated to the national media, but very, very, very solid. 

Now, the case can be made that Q was not worth Eloy and I'd agree. You can also use the Kaplan analogy that Q is a Buick not a high-end car & that you wouldn't want Q on the mound as your do or die pitcher, and that's fine too. But let's not dismiss Gray as some meh pitcher. He's every bit as good as Keuchel and Lynn are in this day and age. They are all interchangeable based on hot streaks. 

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2 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Sonny Gray just made his 32nd consecutive start allowing 6 hits or fewer, a new Major League record, excluding "openers." He was sharing the record with Nolan Ryan. 👏

 

Just saying ... if that's your #4 then you're up there with the Dodgers and Padres for best rotation. 

Sonny Gray is exactly like Quintana when he was with the Sox - super underappreciated to the national media, but very, very, very solid. 

Now, the case can be made that Q was not worth Eloy and I'd agree. You can also use the Kaplan analogy that Q is a Buick not a high-end car & that you wouldn't want Q on the mound as your do or die pitcher, and that's fine too. But let's not dismiss Gray as some meh pitcher. He's every bit as good as Keuchel and Lynn are in this day and age. They are all interchangeable based on hot streaks. 

I don't disagree with what you say.  Just don't let's be on the opposite side of that Q for Eloy equation.

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10 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I’d rather just get Musgrove and give up lesser assets than go “all in” for Gray. Like I said, Sonny is good but I don’t view him as a true difference maker.

You are going to have to give up the same amount of assets for Musgrove as you would for Gray. 

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If Kopech and Vaughn are 100% off the table and Sonny Gray can be had for Madrigal, Heuer, Kelley, Dalquist, Thompson (NOT SAYING ALL BUT SOME COMBO OF THAT) then you 10000% make that deal. Add LaStella/Wong & Hendriks and the Sox instantly become the favorites in the AL in my opinion. 
I don’t think there’s another team in the AL whose pitching staff could match up better than the one the Sox would have. 

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So in case anyone is wondering Gray is on essentially a 3 year $32 million deal, where is last year is a $12 million club option. Pretty cheap.

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6 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

If Kopech and Vaughn are 100% off the table and Sonny Gray can be had for Madrigal, Heuer, Kelley, Dalquist, Thompson (NOT SAYING ALL BUT SOME COMBO OF THAT) then you 10000% make that deal. Add LaStella/Wong & Hendriks and the Sox instantly become the favorites in the AL in my opinion. 
I don’t think there’s another team in the AL whose pitching staff could match up better than the one the Sox would have. 

Welcome to Soxtalk!

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3 hours ago, poppysox said:

The fact that Adam Dunn and Adam LaRoche were starring with reputations earned against NL pitchers is always in the back of my mind.

Have the same concern with the White Sox’ richest contract (assuming Keuchel doesn’t lock in his 2023 option).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grandya01.shtml

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