bmags Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I’m fine with Madrigal, I think he’s easy to upgrade over but he’s better than say Brett Lawrie. I just enjoy the hyperventilating from the group that heard we drafted a short, heady second baseman who doesn’t strikeout and decided he’s Nellie fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, bmags said: I’m fine with Madrigal, I think he’s easy to upgrade over but he’s better than say Brett Lawrie. I just enjoy the hyperventilating from the group that heard we drafted a short, heady second baseman who doesn’t strikeout and decided he’s Nellie fox. Whatever happened to all those Jose Altuve and Dustin Pedroia comps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tony said: There is never any grey area, with almost all topics. There is a large group that has absolutely made up their minds about Nick after 29 games and it will take a gargantuan effort for him to change the minds of those people. I 1000% disagree with that line of thinking, but such is life. I'm fairly certain that Soxtalk has half a dozen very active trolls that hate everything and everybody related to the White Sox and just post nonsense in every thread to irritate the rest of us. It's SO idiotic to draw conclusions about a 23 year old rookie in his first 29 games in the MLB....especially when countering all the people that watched every game he played in college and the minors and predicted he would be a great fielder and baserunner. While I may be overly optimistic about Madrigal...if he is Eckstein 2.0...well he averaged 3.2 WAR per season his first 5 years in baseball and he didn't get started until 26. I'm ok with Madrigal at league minimum providing us a 3 WAR per year through our window. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said: I'm fairly certain that Soxtalk has half a dozen very active trolls that hate everything and everybody related to the White Sox and just post nonsense in every thread to irritate the rest of us. It's SO idiotic to draw conclusions about a 23 year old rookie in his first 29 games in the MLB....especially when countering all the people that watched every game he played in college and the minors and predicted he would be a great fielder and baserunner. While I may be overly optimistic about Madrigal...if he is Eckstein 2.0...well he averaged 3.2 WAR per season his first 5 years in baseball and he didn't get started until 26. I'm ok with Madrigal at league minimum providing us a 3 WAR per year through our window. What happens if you take out his best games though? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Whether you hate him or love him, we can all agree that his official nickname is The Little Magician. Go Sox! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, bmags said: I’m fine with Madrigal, I think he’s easy to upgrade over but he’s better than say Brett Lawrie. I just enjoy the hyperventilating from the group that heard we drafted a short, heady second baseman who doesn’t strikeout and decided he’s Nellie fox. He his .341 his rookie year, provided the equivalent of 2 WAR offense and 1 WAR defense (30 games x 5) at 23. Why are Nellie Fox comps not still in order? Why is it hyperventilating to be excited about a player that is exactly the kind of player that this team needs? When half the board wants to trade him for a bucket of balls. The idea that we can "easily" upgrade him is curious...FG's suggests 2B is one of the weakest positions in baseball. You know how many 2B in 2019 had a WAR better than 3? 8 in all of baseball. We need to give this kid as much patience as we do with all the other budding stars on the team. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Wow, the negativity! The lull in White Sox FA signings has really gotten to some. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, bmags said: What happens if you take out his best games though? That's a real dick comment. Sorry if you got confused by my Musgrove comments...where he had two good starts at the end of the COVID season preceded by 32 starts where he gave up 5.3 runs a game. I thought that might be relevant data points to discuss...I thought it was an interesting fact that might be worth consideration that wasn't easily seen. Perhaps it was confusing to you and you will stalk me through threads calling me the "guy who takes out his best games". Troll on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 17 minutes ago, bmags said: I’m fine with Madrigal, I think he’s easy to upgrade over but he’s better than say Brett Lawrie. I just enjoy the hyperventilating from the group that heard we drafted a short, heady second baseman who doesn’t strikeout and decided he’s Nellie fox. I disagree with this notion that he’d be easy to upgrade over. Unless you overreact to a couple of blunders in a ridiculously small sample size, he’s probably going to be a 2.5 to 3.0 win 2B very soon and that’s with zero power whatsoever. I agree that finding a ~2 win 2B to replace him may not be that challenging, but you’re still likely looking at a downgrade. The real issue with Nick is he has shown zero reason to believe the power will eventually come, which means his ceiling is greatly limited to a good not great player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I disagree with this notion that he’d be easy to upgrade over. Unless you overreact to a couple of blunders in a ridiculously small sample size, he’s probably going to be a 2.5 to 3.0 win 2B very soon and that’s with zero power whatsoever. I agree that finding a ~2 win 2B to replace him may not be that challenging, but you’re still likely looking at a downgrade. The real issue with Nick is he has shown zero reason to believe the power will eventually come, which means his ceiling is greatly limited to a good not great player. I think it’s more he’s far and away the most expendable of the major league core guys, and that someone like Wong or C. Hernandez would give you similar if not greater production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I disagree with this notion that he’d be easy to upgrade over. Unless you overreact to a couple of blunders in a ridiculously small sample size, he’s probably going to be a 2.5 to 3.0 win 2B very soon and that’s with zero power whatsoever. I agree that finding a ~2 win 2B to replace him may not be that challenging, but you’re still likely looking at a downgrade. The real issue with Nick is he has shown zero reason to believe the power will eventually come, which means his ceiling is greatly limited to a good not great player. If Madrigal is our weakest link...start printing the playoff tickets now. We are a lock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, poppysox said: If Madrigal is our weakest link...start printing the playoff tickets now. We are a lock. Well this is still true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said: Madrigal managed to be -4.7 runs below average on the bases. That's in 30 games. For comparison Kong's worst years were usually around -6 to 9 (nice) in 3x the playing time. That's some impressively bad base running by Nick. Yeah but it was 30 games. If you run into 2 or 3 stupid outs (which he did) that will drag your stats really far down. Now if he had played 162 and ran into 15 stupid outs (which is 3 runs prorated to 162 from 30) I would be more concerned but I'm confident he would have toned it down a little and learned from his mistakes, he probably just was a little too anxious on the bases when he first came up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said: Yeah but it was 30 games. If you run into 2 or 3 stupid outs (which he did) that will drag your stats really far down. Now if he had played 162 and ran into 15 stupid outs (which is 3 runs prorated to 162 from 30) I would be more concerned but I'm confident he would have toned it down a little and learned from his mistakes, he probably just was a little too anxious on the bases when he first came up. I’m more concerned with the lack of burst on the bases. I don’t think he’s going to be an awful base runner, but it doesn’t seem like he’s going to be a plus-plus base runner like advertised. Same goes with the defense, and that’s why his value to me is a lot lower than some on here have for him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Waffleson Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) He only played 71 games between AA and AAA. For 29 games in the MLB I have nothing to complain about. Unless we get a cost controlled Ace SP, makes no sense to trade him. Why trade a rookie who only struck out 7 times in 29 AB hitting .340? Forget the few blunders, it's part the rookie experience. Edited January 6, 2021 by Ben Waffleson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 8 minutes ago, fathom said: I think it’s more he’s far and away the most expendable of the major league core guys, and that someone like Wong or C. Hernandez would give you similar if not greater production. 100% agree that he’s the most expendable of the core guys because he lacks the ceiling those guys possess. I would totally be willing to move him in a trade if I can capture value and replace him with someone like Wong, but let’s not ignore the fact that Madrigal will be direct cheap for the foreseeable (not a guy who will make big bucks in arbitration) and won’t be at the decline phase of his career like Wong or Hernandez are likely approaching. So yes he’s replaceable to some extent, but it comes at a financial cost and with a higher risk player. All that being said, if he can be a main piece in a trade for a controllable starting pitcher I’m all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aFrankSoxFan Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: No shit. Kid is the dumbest "smart player" I ever saw. Guess they just give that label to you if you're 5-7" and on the "freedom fighter" color tone scale. Maybe you should just Boo him every time he comes up to bat ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 43 minutes ago, fathom said: I’m more concerned with the lack of burst on the bases. I don’t think he’s going to be an awful base runner, but it doesn’t seem like he’s going to be a plus-plus base runner like advertised. Same goes with the defense, and that’s why his value to me is a lot lower than some on here have for him. His sprint speed was 77th percentile last year. That is not buxton or hamilton level but well above average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinky Stanky Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: I am also just going to say that Madrigal screams a TLR type player. Unless he gets traded, get used to seeing him every day in the line up. 2 hours ago, fathom said: Eckstein 2.0 Theriot redux. 😉 2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said: My favorite David Eckstein anecdote is the fact he was named to the Jewish All American Baseball team. David had to break the news he is not Jewish. https://www.espn.com/talent/danpatrick/s/2002/0828/1424027.html Nick Madrigal is listed as two inches taller than David. You mean Billy Eckstine wasn't Jewish either? Or Bruce Springsteen? 😉 Edited January 6, 2021 by Stinky Stanky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHahn Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 2 hours ago, fathom said: Eckstein 2.0 Madrigal hit .340 and had a OBP of .376 in his rookie year. Eckstein never came close to those numbers in his whole career. Not sure why you would bring him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: I disagree with this notion that he’d be easy to upgrade over. Unless you overreact to a couple of blunders in a ridiculously small sample size, he’s probably going to be a 2.5 to 3.0 win 2B very soon and that’s with zero power whatsoever. I agree that finding a ~2 win 2B to replace him may not be that challenging, but you’re still likely looking at a downgrade. The real issue with Nick is he has shown zero reason to believe the power will eventually come, which means his ceiling is greatly limited to a good not great player. I think this is counting the chickens before they hatch. If he maintains a 112 OPS it helps, but you are saying it’s pretty much guaranteed he’s a top ten 2b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, NotHahn said: Madrigal hit .340 and had a OBP of .376 in his rookie year. Eckstein never came close to those numbers in his whole career. Not sure why you would bring him up. It was who Tony would view him as 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 2 hours ago, DirtySox said: Nick Madrigal discussions have become insufferable on Soxtalk. I don't know why I read them anymore. beats staring out the window (on occasion). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Madrigal is a perfect compliment to this White Sox line-up. He waits for strikes, then invariably puts the ball in play instead of whiffing. Then the power hitters come up and drive him in - classic bloop and a blast baseball where Madrigal is the bloop. Nelson Fox who had a lifetime .288 batting average and averaged 2HR per year. I think Madrigal can become what Nellie was in all aspects of the game. Madrigal is a keeper. There is zero chance that he gets traded any time soon. The 2021 W Sox have a beautiful mix of power, speed, and smart contact hitting salted with a bit of of bravado. Madrigal is part of a core that will make a run for the championship for the next few seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 You guys are way too hard on Madrigal off of one abbreviated season with injuries occurring. He's been shot up to the MLB and is very inexperienced. Plz be more gentle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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