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Hector wrong. Again. - Cruz back with Min

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6 hours ago, SoxSteve said:

Totally disagree. Some guys are just ready and pure hitters and Vaughn is one of them. He will starting DH. Bank on it.

This is something I agree with. There are certain types of guys who are just pure bats ... now obviously I haven't watched enough of him, but the scouts have. People like Madrigal have gone through the years of college ball and are pretty polished. I dont think its crazy to expect Vaughn to come up and hit for at least average production. 

 

either way I hope this cruz rumor is not a precursor to where we sign him and trade vaughn for a controllable pitcher. If so, that would be upsetting.

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27 minutes ago, ron883 said:

He has tested positive before. If we do sign him, I sure as hell hope he is roiding still. 

 

Snap. I dont recall him being busted for it.

I'd still take him though lol

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15 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Hendriks just had some interesting comments on facing Eaton on NBC Sports a few days ago.  Called him a "little gnat" that just drives you nuts with his pesty hitting.  Was very up about Eaton and Madrigal as a matter of fact.  I love players that can do more than hit a bomb every 5 days.

But what about Eaton's previous season makes you think he is a "phenomenal" upgrade over what we had? It sounds like blind optimism. 

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10 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Who the fuck is this Leo character?

You don't know Uncle Leo?

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9 hours ago, HOFHurt35 said:

The whole Vaughn DH thing was ludicrous to begin with.

a) People forget he's only had 200 minor league ABs. 

b) You don't burn the development of the 20th best prospect in the game to plug at DH because you had no one else.

 

 

 

I can't wait for a minor league season to happen, just so people can quit pretending that Andrew Vaughn sat in a cave all of last year.

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8 minutes ago, ron883 said:

But what about Eaton's previous season makes you think he is a "phenomenal" upgrade over what we had? It sounds like blind optimism. 

Eaton is a fun and scrappy player to watch when healthy.  I look at his career, not a shorten season snapshot to evaluate if he will be an upgrade.  Obviously, the baseball evaluators on the WS agree with me.   I find optimism much more enjoyable than pessimism.  Baseball is supposed to be something to lose your cares over for a few hours...not aggravate the snot out of you. 

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What doesn't make sense about what Hector Gomez said is the timing. He said we'd get good news in a few days. If it is indeed about Cruz, is this even reasonable? Why would Cruz start making this decision before having a concrete idea about the NL DH and seeing where his true value is? Cruz may have said he'd love to play for the Sox if possible, but I'm not sure how any deal could have been close at this point. 

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31 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

This is something I agree with. There are certain types of guys who are just pure bats ... now obviously I haven't watched enough of him, but the scouts have. People like Madrigal have gone through the years of college ball and are pretty polished. I dont think its crazy to expect Vaughn to come up and hit for at least average production. 

 

either way I hope this cruz rumor is not a precursor to where we sign him and trade vaughn for a controllable pitcher. If so, that would be upsetting.

Yep.  Regarding Vaughn, it's important to remember that he's a slow, short, right-handed, 1B-only player, and was still a consensus top 3 pick in the draft.  Someone like that isn't a consensus top 3 pick if scouts and talent evaluators believe he needs a couple years in the minors to develop.  It's really not hyperbole to say that Vaughn's bat was MLB-ready before he left college.

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4 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Eaton is a fun and scrappy player to watch when healthy.  I look at his career, not a shorten season snapshot to evaluate if he will be an upgrade.  Obviously, the baseball evaluators on the WS agree with me.   I find optimism much more enjoyable than pessimism.  Baseball is supposed to be something to lose your cares over for a few hours...not aggravate the snot out of you. 

Eaton isn't special or even very good at this point. But he isna good overall baseball player which is what we need. He played well in the 2019 post season and had some very big hits and bombs that year. If he is motivated and healthy, he will be a good player for us. 

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1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

What doesn't make sense about what Hector Gomez said is the timing. He said we'd get good news in a few days. If it is indeed about Cruz, is this even reasonable? Why would Cruz start making this decision before having a concrete idea about the NL DH and seeing where his true value is? Cruz may have said he'd love to play for the Sox if possible, but I'm not sure how any deal could have been close at this point. 

I think this is true but man if I was a player and I had a deal anywhere close to my target I'd probably take it given the horrible relationship between the MLBPA and owners right now.

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Just now, bmags said:

I think this is true but man if I was a player and I had a deal anywhere close to my target I'd probably take it given the horrible relationship between the MLBPA and owners right now.

I'm sure Cruz's target is two years. I'm also sure the Sox aren't providing him a second year guaranteed. Not saying he will get a second year, but 1 year deals aren't going away for him. He will probably go to the team with that second year. 

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2 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

Yep.  Regarding Vaughn, it's important to remember that he's a slow, short, right-handed, 1B-only player, and was still a consensus top 3 pick in the draft.  Someone like that isn't a consensus top 3 pick if scouts and talent evaluators believe he needs a couple years in the minors to develop.  It's really not hyperbole to say that Vaughn's bat was MLB-ready before he left college.

I'm extremely bullish on Vaughn.  Not only do I think he would be a solid DH, but I think he could be the best overall hitter in the Sox lineup this year.  How's that for a bold prediction.

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4 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

I'm extremely bullish on Vaughn.  Not only do I think he would be a solid DH, but I think he could be the best overall hitter in the Sox lineup this year.  How's that for a bold prediction.

If Vaughn played for another team I'd agree with this. Our players always need time to develop and don't come up mashing right away. Eloy turned a corner that September. Robert started hot and then went south for a while. Moncada struggled to find his way. Gio had the worst ERA amongst qualified starters. Cease was bad overall. Kopech pitched well but got hurt. Timmy took a little bit of time to get this good, although he was decent offensively. 

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5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

If Vaughn played for another team I'd agree with this. Our players always need time to develop and don't come up mashing right away. Eloy turned a corner that September. Robert started hot and then went south for a while. Moncada struggled to find his way. Gio had the worst ERA amongst qualified starters. Cease was bad overall. Kopech pitched well but got hurt. Timmy took a little bit of time to get this good, although he was decent offensively. 

It is the Chicago weather.................................  

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20 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

What doesn't make sense about what Hector Gomez said is the timing. He said we'd get good news in a few days. If it is indeed about Cruz, is this even reasonable? Why would Cruz start making this decision before having a concrete idea about the NL DH and seeing where his true value is? Cruz may have said he'd love to play for the Sox if possible, but I'm not sure how any deal could have been close at this point. 

Maybe Cruz just doesn't want to wait around anymore for the MLB to decide.  The theoretical date for Spring Training is getting close, he probably wants to know where he is playing right now 

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7 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

If Vaughn played for another team I'd agree with this. Our players always need time to develop and don't come up mashing right away. Eloy turned a corner that September. Robert started hot and then went south for a while. Moncada struggled to find his way. Gio had the worst ERA amongst qualified starters. Cease was bad overall. Kopech pitched well but got hurt. Timmy took a little bit of time to get this good, although he was decent offensively. 

We tend to rush our promising players to the majors as well.  Kind of overwhelming I would expect.

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4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Maybe Cruz just doesn't want to wait around anymore for the MLB to decide.  The theoretical date for Spring Training is getting close, he probably wants to know where he is playing right now 

But Hector tweeted good news for Sox a week ago and in between that time and the Cruz picture, he said Cruz was waiting for clarity.  It really seems like a leverage play.

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30 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I can't wait for a minor league season to happen, just so people can quit pretending that Andrew Vaughn sat in a cave all of last year.

I don't think anyone has said Vaugh sat on his ass the entire 2020. 

Going from College Ball to 200 ABs of MILB to simulated Batting Practice to the Big Leagues is a bit much to ask for,  I don't care how polished anyone thinks his bat is. 

And it's not as if in those 200 MILB ABs he tore the cover off the ball.   

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Just now, HOFHurt35 said:

I don't think anyone has said Vaugh sat on his ass the entire 2020. 

Going from College Ball to 200 ABs of MILB to simulated Batting Practice to the Big Leagues is a bit much to ask for,  I don't care how polished anyone thinks his bat is. 

And it's not as if in those 200 MILB ABs he tore the cover off the ball.   

It wasn't batting practice.  There is a pretty convincing argument that he spent his time going against MUCH better competition than he would have going to work against A+/AA/AAA back end talent.  if you look at how bad the back half of those rosters are, he didn't see that kind of pitching last year.

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Vaughn spent last summer hitting against all the Sox best pitching prospects on a daily basis. To me...that is even MORE invaluable than a bunch of has been 30+ year old junkballers in AAA. He is ready. He is smash. He excite. 

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Yermin still deserves a look see...and this first few weeks of the season would serve that purpose.  I understand the enthusiasm for Cruz but I would prefer spending the money on starting pitching and handle DH internally in the way I suggested here.

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1 minute ago, EloyJenkins said:

Vaughn spent last summer hitting against all the Sox best pitching prospects on a daily basis. To me...that is even MORE invaluable than a bunch of has been 30+ year old junkballers in AAA. He is ready. He is smash. He excite. 

I am also very bullish on Vaughn.  But I also challenge anyone to name at least 1 non-pitcher in the last 10 years who hasn't spent at least 1 full competitive season and/or 150-200 games working their way up the MiLB ladder; or Japan & Cuba (other?) leagues with whom MLB holds in high regard.  White Sox intrasquad is not competitive baseball and I doubt if it carries much weight.  Its just the way baseball is run.  Orgs just don't start the FA clock with so little to go on.   Vaughn is probably on a fast track as much as anyone ever has but he'll still have to pay his dues and prove he's ready.

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Madrigal: hit .340 in his first 29 MLB games = "His defense is bad and he has no power, he will likely never get better, trade him."

Vaughn: Has not even hit above A-Ball = "He's gonna come right up and be our DH and mash from the get-go. Bank on it."

 

Does this seem bizarre to anyone else? Am I mischaracterizing the arguments?

Edited by RagahRagah
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11 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

I am also very bullish on Vaughn.  But I also challenge anyone to name at least 1 non-pitcher in the last 10 years who hasn't spent at least 1 full competitive season and/or 150-200 games working their way up the MiLB ladder; or Japan & Cuba (other?) leagues with whom MLB holds in high regard.  White Sox intrasquad is not competitive baseball and I doubt if it carries much weight.  Its just the way baseball is run.  Orgs just don't start the FA clock with so little to go on.   Vaughn is probably on a fast track as much as anyone ever has but he'll still have to pay his dues and prove he's ready.

Right, because we have so many pandemic destroyed seasons to build rules off of.

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