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Hector wrong. Again. - Cruz back with Min

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28 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Yermin still deserves a look see...and this first few weeks of the season would serve that purpose.  I understand the enthusiasm for Cruz but I would prefer spending the money on starting pitching and handle DH internally in the way I suggested here.

I normally would go with this logic, but what quality of a SP do you think you are going to get going from $5 million to $15 million.  Most of the guys in the $10-$15 range (Tanaka, Paxton, etc) are going to want a multi year deal or have issues similar to the $5 million types (Archer, etc.).  I'm still a fan of cheap SP, good bat, backup C, call it an offseason.  I think you get more value out of that than spending "big" on one more SP and going in house with a bat.  Or maybe the Sox just save up that extra $10 million to use at the deadline.  

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43 minutes ago, fathom said:

But Hector tweeted good news for Sox a week ago and in between that time and the Cruz picture, he said Cruz was waiting for clarity.  It really seems like a leverage play.

Did he ever actually say the Sox are going to sign Cruz?  Or just good news and re: Cruz. Maybe its as simple as Cruz is not going to be back with the Twins.  

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10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Right, because we have so many pandemic destroyed seasons to build rules off of.

It doesn't matter.  There're still going to try to get him a full MiLB 2021 season before making any decisions.  Even RH alluded to that.   

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2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Did he ever actually say the Sox are going to sign Cruz?  Or just good news and re: Cruz. Maybe its as simple as Cruz is not going to be back with the Twins.  

He’s tweeted stuff saying he hopes he signs with the Sox

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28 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Madrigal: hit .340 in his first 29 MLB games = "His defense is bad and he has no power, he will likely never get better, trade him.

Vaughn: Has not even hit above A-Ball = "He's gonna come right up and be our DH and mash from the get-go. Bank on it."

 

Does this seem bizarre to anyone else? Am I mischaracterizing the arguments?

Welcome to Soxtalk

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1 hour ago, Perfect Vision said:

I'm extremely bullish on Vaughn.  Not only do I think he would be a solid DH, but I think he could be the best overall hitter in the Sox lineup this year.  How's that for a bold prediction.

I tend to agree with the bullishness on Vaughn. The fact the Sox were willing to consider bringing him up last year was telling to me. Makes me think he looked great in Schaumburg. And the fact they were willing to even consider looking bad/admitting the EE signing was maybe bad?  

Total guess on my part, but given a whole season i could see him hitting .265, getting obp around .350 and hitting 20-25 hr with 60-70 rbis. also with a nice ops. like someone else said a right handed first basemen doesn't go top 3 for no reason. you have to have a really nice bat to get that praise, just like a short second basemen with no pop doesn't get drafted 4th without a bat ... Madrigal is the real deal with spraying the ball around. he's going to hit .300+ for his career.  There's values to those type of guys ... maybe not Robert or Eloy type of upside value, but those type of guys mixed in this lineup are absolutely necessary on a championship team. i whole heartedly want those guys on my team.

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Is anyone excited to have to face Spencer Torkelson in Detroit for years to come? No?

That's how I feel about Vaughn. Vaughn could've been that 1-1 if he was a few inches taller. I'm in no hurry to save the Central years of headaches by trading him away.

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49 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

I am also very bullish on Vaughn.  But I also challenge anyone to name at least 1 non-pitcher in the last 10 years who hasn't spent at least 1 full competitive season and/or 150-200 games working their way up the MiLB ladder; or Japan & Cuba (other?) leagues with whom MLB holds in high regard.  White Sox intrasquad is not competitive baseball and I doubt if it carries much weight.  Its just the way baseball is run.  Orgs just don't start the FA clock with so little to go on.   Vaughn is probably on a fast track as much as anyone ever has but he'll still have to pay his dues and prove he's ready.

Also, Juan Soto serves as a great example of someone who barely saw the minors, AND he was YEARS younger than Vaughn while doing it.

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Do you pro cruz guys realize eloy is going to break his body playing left field?? Eloy is our dh. Dont need two of them

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1 minute ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

Is anyone excited to have to face Spencer Torkelson in Detroit for years to come? No?

That's how I feel about Vaughn. Vaughn could've been that 1-1 if he was a few inches taller. I'm in no hurry to save the Central years of headaches by trading him away.

Teams will have great players on them from time to time. We just don't want them to have too many great players. Detroit has sucked and has told picks, so naturally they will be able to draft an ace and a cornerstone everyday player. 

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1 minute ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Do you pro cruz guys realize eloy is going to break his body playing left field?? Eloy is our dh. Dont need two of them

Eloy won't be playing DH next year, except for maybe a handful of games. 

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13 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Do you pro cruz guys realize eloy is going to break his body playing left field?? Eloy is our dh. Dont need two of them

in the future after Jose retires? yes.

now? no way they give up on him playing LF at this age.

Mind you I am not saying its right or wrong. just that they wont and therefore we do have a hole at DH whether its Cruz, Vaughn, or whomever that takes it.

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17 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Do you pro cruz guys realize eloy is going to break his body playing left field?? Eloy is our dh. Dont need two of them

Nah this is wrong 

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19 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Do you pro cruz guys realize eloy is going to break his body playing left field?? Eloy is our dh. Dont need two of them

You keep saying this, but there has been no indication at all that this is part of the plan.  As much as you wish it to be so... 

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19 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Do you pro cruz guys realize eloy is going to break his body playing left field?? Eloy is our dh. Dont need two of them

If only we could all see into the future like you can. 

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Right, because we have so many pandemic destroyed seasons to build rules off of.

I believe joe jackson and bucky weaver were killing it in the last pandemic year.

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54 minutes ago, fathom said:

He’s tweeted stuff saying he hopes he signs with the Sox

It was more than that though. He said that sox fans will be receiving good news in a few days. And then later teasing a picture of him and Cruz saying "soon" in response to a question about when the good news is coming for sox fans.

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4 minutes ago, smellysox said:

It was more than that though. He said that sox fans will be receiving good news in a few days. And then later teasing a picture of him and Cruz saying "soon" in response to a question about when the good news is coming for sox fans.

Right. I think fathom is just saying this isn't Hector teasing Sox fans by saying "Good news for Sox fans, Cruz is going outside of the division". Hector is hinting "Good news for Sox fans, Cruz is going to the Sox".

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44 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Also, Juan Soto serves as a great example of someone who barely saw the minors, AND he was YEARS younger than Vaughn while doing it.

Good point. And our DH position hit like .153 last year so it's not like he needs to hit 340 like madrigal to be a vast upgrade from 2020 production. I will go a step further and wouldn't be surprised the Sox lock him up on a long term deal like Eloy and Robert. A stretch yes but would not shock me at all.

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1 minute ago, KrankinSox said:

Right. I think fathom is just saying this isn't Hector teasing Sox fans by saying "Good news for Sox fans, Cruz is going outside of the division". Hector is hinting "Good news for Sox fans, Cruz is going to the Sox".

Correct, this isn’t him teasing he’s going elsewhere

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41 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Also, Juan Soto serves as a great example of someone who barely saw the minors, AND he was YEARS younger than Vaughn while doing it.

Yep, he definitely meets the criteria I asked.  However, there were some circumstances that moved him up so quickly.  He did spend 122 games in MiLB where he cranked it at a .362 clip.  He was progressing normally from A to A+ to AA when an injury to Howie Kendrick and a thin Nats OF forced his call up from AA ball.  Had that not occurred, its very likely he would have met the 150 game criteria and also a full season.  If Vaughn hits .350+ over 120+ MiLB games he'd be that much closer than he is now.       

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6 minutes ago, KrankinSox said:

Right. I think fathom is just saying this isn't Hector teasing Sox fans by saying "Good news for Sox fans, Cruz is going outside of the division". Hector is hinting "Good news for Sox fans, Cruz is going to the Sox".

Right I understand. 

Edited by smellysox
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I am still waiting for Hectors predictions from the Machado offseason to come true.  

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1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Do you pro cruz guys realize eloy is going to break his body playing left field?? Eloy is our dh. Dont need two of them

If Eloy is our DH do we trade Vaughn?  Abreu is here for 2 more years and he's going to be 36 when his contract ends.  We know how Jerry loves his guys...Abreu will be here as long as he wants, so are you saying we have 3 guys for two spots?  If so, what do we do?  Not being a smart aleck, just trying to figure out best end game.

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11 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

I am still waiting for Hectors predictions from the Machado offseason to come true.  

What he said was right, the Sox had made the biggest offer.  He didn't know Padres were going to come in and top it

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