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the Corbin Burnes thread **on ice***

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2 hours ago, Wisebri224 said:

Right now the Sox are at $163 million for 40 man roster with dead money, contracts, and benefits.  Next year, the core have another $20 million going on the books with raises from their extensions.  Now, you subtract Lynn and Eaton, that cuts $17 million off, but if you re-sign Lynn and extend Gio you are looking at being right back up in that mid $180's range before you do anything else.  Like I said maybe you can replace Eaton with a kid and Vaughn is ready and you have $15-$20 million to play with, but it depends on development.  Maybe you don't have to extend Lynn because Kopoech and Cease or great but we don't know that right now.

 

1 hour ago, hi8is said:

I don’t think this is correct.

There is no "dead money" currently on the books. When most people discuss player contracts, they are not counting health, pension, FICA contributions, Unemployment Tax, dental and vision benefits, etc.

Cot's Contracts is the Gold Standard for publicly updated information. The 2021 White Sox 40 Man Roster payroll is:

  • 26 Players: $125.7M
  • Player benefits, unemployment tax, player insurance, and other payroll associated costs: $15.5M
  • Salaries for the remaining 14 players in the Minor Leagues on the 40 Man Roster: $2.3M

Most people do not include the later two when discussing team payroll.

The remaining $23M is inaccurate in terms of cash outlays this season. For example, the White Sox are paying Hendricks $11.3M this season, but Wisebri's number is $18M based on the AAV. Moncada is being paid $6.8M, but Wiserbri is using $14M. It's not a good method to evaluate what the White Sox are paying in 2021. It's how Reinsdorf would spin it, overstating what the Sox are paying now, and hyping increases already factored in his spin number. Luxury tax considerations are irrelevant with the White Sox, as they will never come close to that number under JR, or sign players such as Bauer or Springer to get close enough. 

Soxtalk should consider one consensus source for payroll data for discussion purposes, similar to how fWAR is considered the consensus WAR projection / actual numbers here.

Edited by South Side Hit Men
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2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

There is no "dead money" currently on the books. When most people discuss player contracts, they are not counting health, pension, FICA contributions, Unemployment Tax, dental and vision benefits, etc.

Cot's Contracts is the Gold Standard for publicly updated information. The 2021 White Sox 40 Man Roster payroll is:

  • 26 Players: $125.7M
  • Player benefits, unemployment tax, player insurance, and other payroll associated costs: $15.5M
  • Salaries for the remaining 14 players on the Minor Leagues on the 40 Man Roster: $2.3M

Most people do not include the later two when discussing team payroll.

The remaining $23M is inaccurate in terms of cash outlays this season. For example, the White Sox are paying Hendricks $11.3M this season, but Wisebri's number is $18M based on the AAV. Moncada is being paid $6.8M, but Wiserbri is using $14M. It's not a good method to evaluate what the White Sox are paying in 2021. It's like Reinsdorf's personal spin, overstating what the Sox are paying now, and hyping increases already factored in his number.

Soxtalk should consider one consensus source for payroll data for discussion purposes, similar to how fWAR is considered the consensus WAR projection / actual numbers here.

 

he's not talking about cash outlays.  

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5 hours ago, Perfect Vision said:

Enough of this.  Let's just sign La Stella, one of Richards or Wainwright, and roll!

Agree!

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5 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

This trade never made any sense from the Brewers side.  

I heard that they love Heuer and that they don't think Hiura can play 2B. I'm with you though. I don't think Madrigal is good enough to headline and the Sox aren't trading anyone better than him. 

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2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I heard that they love Heuer and that they don't think Hiura can play 2B. I'm with you though. I don't think Madrigal is good enough to headline and the Sox aren't trading anyone better than him. 

Good. I hope they stick to their guns. Just sign a free agent instead and hope Cease and/or Kopech take some huge steps.

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2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I heard that they love Heuer and that they don't think Hiura can play 2B. I'm with you though. I don't think Madrigal is good enough to headline and the Sox aren't trading anyone better than him. 

I agree with that.  Now they have to find a starter who will fit in their price range and that group has suddenly shrunk.  

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2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I agree with that.  Now they have to find a starter who will fit in their price range and that group has suddenly shrunk.  

Trevor Cahill come on down! 

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1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

 

 

I know he's obviously a poster and a lurker here but how does anyone take this guy and his multiple burner accounts seriously? 

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4 hours ago, Dayton83 said:

It’s a decent amount of depth from a team that has limited trade capital for a fourth starter that would be able to pitch 100-120 innings tops in 2021?

Except he wouldn't be the 4th starter and acquiring him moves Sox to front of the line. Also, I wouldn't speculate on how many innings he will provide based on 2020 and prior to 2020 he was Alec Hansen. 

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3 hours ago, Drwhoo1 said:

So, I don’t post much. The reason being it was the same thing over and over about losing. As I and some others said, it would take 3 years for the fruits to start to bear. Most didn’t care. It probably felt good to whine to get it off their chests. Fine. I let it pass. 3 years later, the Sox are on the verge of being competitive each and every year. 
 

Now that we’re here, Everybody is playing gm. This has always made me laugh. Almost everyone is an expert. Here is Burnes, who only had success in a 59 inning stint becoming the next stud who would require a truckload of great prospects. And most responses are given as fact. In order to get a TOR player, you need to give up lots of prospects. His stuff is clearly SP1 material. As if the experts were never wrong. Their rankings get reshuffled every year. What does that tell you. Just a couple examples recently is meija and lux. Oh, they are so awesome. They are easily centerpieces of potential trades. There are many others but these come to mind because both played in the majors already. One has been traded numerous times. None of them scream out superstar yet. But hey, after 59 in, Corbin is clearly a stud. Ours are not worth anything. 
 

If this is how people rate people, I hope the trade doesn’t go through. I have no problem waiting to see if they become potential studs. Most don’t have enough play yet. Give up everyone to get him. I’ve seen too many so called studs blow up into nothing. Our players are clearly at their lowest points so what do we really gain by trading a bunch of them now. Your already saying they are not highly rated by including them in any trade offers for him. That’s how bad teams stay bad by getting rid of prospects before you know what you have. Uh oh, here’s the dreaded tatis jr. traded before we knew what he was. Now these guys before we even know what they are. But hey, burnes is a stud. We know that after 59 innings. 
 

I get it, it’s fun playing gm. So go ahead, trade the farm. One that sucks anyway. I like where we are at. I definitely want to add more pieces but this is not one of them. Especially at the cost you guys are talking about. I don’t care about the experts. They are mostly wrong anyway. This decade will be fun. I can’t wait for it to begin

Good post...I agree with you.

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2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

There is no "dead money" currently on the books. When most people discuss player contracts, they are not counting health, pension, FICA contributions, Unemployment Tax, dental and vision benefits, etc.

Cot's Contracts is the Gold Standard for publicly updated information. The 2021 White Sox 40 Man Roster payroll is:

  • 26 Players: $125.7M
  • Player benefits, unemployment tax, player insurance, and other payroll associated costs: $15.5M
  • Salaries for the remaining 14 players in the Minor Leagues on the 40 Man Roster: $2.3M

Most people do not include the later two when discussing team payroll.

The remaining $23M is inaccurate in terms of cash outlays this season. For example, the White Sox are paying Hendricks $11.3M this season, but Wisebri's number is $18M based on the AAV. Moncada is being paid $6.8M, but Wiserbri is using $14M. It's not a good method to evaluate what the White Sox are paying in 2021. It's how Reinsdorf would spin it, overstating what the Sox are paying now, and hyping increases already factored in his spin number. Luxury tax considerations are irrelevant with the White Sox, as they will never come close to that number under JR, or sign players such as Bauer or Springer to get close enough. 

Soxtalk should consider one consensus source for payroll data for discussion purposes, similar to how fWAR is considered the consensus WAR projection / actual numbers here.

Nope not using those big numbers at all.  I’m a math teacher I can read numbers.  I’m taking values straight off of contract numbers for this year at the correct number and looking at NEXT years numbers when looking at Moncada does indeed get a raise as does Hendriks etc.  my numbers are correct.  I’d be happy to lay them out in a spreadsheet and add them up for you.  No spin here just adding numbers.  I don’t mind having a discussion but your tone seems kind of aloof.  You can disagree.  What I laid out were legit concerns looking at Reinsdorfs spending past as it relates to the future.  I think he should press that tax number with this team but that’s not my choice. 

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2 hours ago, bmags said:

he's not talking about cash outlays.  

Thanks.  I’m trying to be clear about that but must not be doing a good enough job.  I’m more trying to think why they wouldn’t make a big move monetarily right now and the reasons I laid out seemed to be the most logical reason I could come up with.  I’m really not a dope:)

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1 hour ago, Wisebri224 said:

Nope not using those big numbers at all.  I’m a math teacher I can read numbers.  I’m taking values straight off of contract numbers for this year at the correct number and looking at NEXT years numbers when looking at Moncada does indeed get a raise as does Hendriks etc.  my numbers are correct.  I’d be happy to lay them out in a spreadsheet and add them up for you.  No spin here just adding numbers.  I don’t mind having a discussion but your tone seems kind of aloof.  You can disagree.  What I laid out were legit concerns looking at Reinsdorfs spending past as it relates to the future.  I think he should press that tax number with this team but that’s not my choice. 

That guy aloof ? Nooo say it aint' so ! He has all the right answers , just ask him. He is very modest .😂

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2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I heard that they love Heuer and that they don't think Hiura can play 2B. I'm with you though. I don't think Madrigal is good enough to headline and the Sox aren't trading anyone better than him. 

Thats unfortunate because those are two parts to a whole that could turn a deal. If they really like Madrigal and Heuer and we add Stiever + Sheets (they need 1B) and/or Lopez and/or Mercedes, it might get interesting. I'd also consider taking back Avi and his contract. It seems like there are several paths to getting this done but I fear its just smoke. I've been all over Brewers blogs and can't find any chatter about moving Burnes. Hope it happens but not optimistic.

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3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I agree with that.  Now they have to find a starter who will fit in their price range and that group has suddenly shrunk.  

I was paranoid brewers would get back McClure in the deal and he’d turn into another trash heap star for them

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4 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

🤮

If they sign Cruz I'll take Cahill. 

That's a lot of runs and a bad ass BP.

 

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Baseball Prospectus apparently has Madrigal ranked as the #12 overall prospect.  The last time they overhyped a White Sox prospect they we’re moved in a major trade 🤔

Also, since I I haven’t seen it posted elsewhere, Vaughn was ranked #14, Crochet #36, & Kopech #37.  Nice to see Garrett getting a ranking he deserves.

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4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Baseball Prospectus apparently has Madrigal ranked as the #12 overall prospect.  The last time they overhyped a White Sox prospect they we’re moved in a major trade 🤔

Also, since I I haven’t seen it posted elsewhere, Vaughn was ranked #14, Crochet #36, & Kopech #37.  Nice to see Garrett getting a ranking he deserves.

Who was that prospect? Dunning? 

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4 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Who was that prospect? Dunning? 

Weems

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