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Garbage dump pitchers I don't *like* like but like more than garbage


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1 hour ago, fathom said:

This is where I disagree. These guys are training specifically for months for this showcase.  I don’t think he’s easing into this and saving more in the tank.  This is someone that used to hit 98 consistently.  

So Paxton was under his normal fb averages for his showcase. Kluber was under his normal FB averages for his showcase. Last year he averaged under 91 mph. So that he's already in 90-92 and people thought he looked good probably means he's more like his 2019 form at least.

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1 minute ago, maxjusttyped said:

I didn't say they were. I said they were mid rotation SP's, a clear tier above dart throws.

Ok, just confused since you were responding to who had upside in the lower tier beside Folty. I assumed we were talking about the trash heap group.

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1 hour ago, fathom said:

This is where I disagree. These guys are training specifically for months for this showcase.  I don’t think he’s easing into this and saving more in the tank.  This is someone that used to hit 98 consistently.  

I don't think a big leaguer is blowing it out in a January bullpen.  I also don't think the scouts there are scouting the gun. They're looking to see what kind of shape he's in, how the ball is coming out of his hand and for any signs of discomfort/injury.  These guys have long track records where a couple mph in January isn't a big deal.  

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5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

It’s rather interesting how so many people are now implicitly saying “Don Cooper was just plain awful for years” and yet don’t take the next step of asking “so why did the Front Office keep him on for so long if he was doing that much damage?”.

Cooper is no different than a manager.  They almost always get fired in the end.  Something happens where they just are not getting through to the players anymore.  The investment in these players is just so enormous that the FO has to make changes when it's not happening.  Maybe Katz says the same thing Coop was saying but in a different way that gets through.  When I see Lopez get in trouble and take more and more time between pitches it drives me nuts.  He absolutely looks as if he is afraid to throw the ball.  Maybe Coop has told him to work faster with some aggression but he doesn't ever seem to change.  Time to change the way it's being said.  

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Paxton or Archer I wouldn't mind at all. I've  talked about Paxton before so I'll focjs on Archer.

I saw that Archer had a similar surgery to Nick Burdi and Burdi came back just fine (at least velocity wise, he still sucks). He's lost alittle bit off his four seemer but it's still a consistent 94. Maybe the Sox can convince him to ditch his sinker like Tampa Bay had Glasnow do. That pitch is where he gets absolutely rocked.

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5 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Paxton or Archer I wouldn't mind at all. I've  talked about Paxton before so I'll focjs on Archer.

I saw that Archer had a similar surgery to Nick Burdi and Burdi came back just fine (at least velocity wise, he still sucks). He's lost alittle bit off his four seemer but it's still a consistent 94. Maybe the Sox can convince him to ditch his sinker like Tampa Bay had Glasnow do. That pitch is where he gets absolutely rocked.

I'd be down for Archer. 

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