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Garbage dump pitchers I don't *like* like but like more than garbage

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13 hours ago, bmags said:

*suggestive eyebrows*
 

seems like a sf giants pickup

Yep.

To be fair though, all of these do lol

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3 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Yep.

To be fair though, all of these do lol

please just let me feel smart.

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Starting the season with Cease @4 and ReyLo @5 (and perhaps re-signing Rodon as depth) maintains some financial flexibility.  That is not that bad of an option for a team that has a strong bullpen and a possible starter like Kopech in the wings.  Cease and ReyLo are not complete game pitchers (how many of them are there any more?) but if they can go 4-5 innings and keep the score close, that may be all that is needed. Sox are going to be wailing on the ball and putting up some softball scores so they are going to win some games where a starter gives up 3-5 runs in the first few innings. TLaR is not going to let any starter in for too long with the bullpen arms he has.

I would not worry about the back of rotation at this point. There is always an opportunity to add before the trading deadline.

IMHO, Bauer could pose a risk to team chemistry. Therefore, if the Sox pass on him and his personal demands (which are beyond salary) I am fine with that.

And Cruz?  Come on, we are loaded with hitters don't need to add another old hitter like Thome, Dunn, LaRoach, Todd Frazier, etc, at the end of their respective careers. Pack up the gear, get vaccinated,  and get ready for Spring Training.

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1 minute ago, tray said:

Starting the season with Cease @4 and ReyLo @5 (and perhaps re-signing Rodon as depth) maintains some financial flexibility.  That is not that bad of an option for a team that has a strong bullpen and a possible starter like Kopech in the wings.  Cease and ReyLo are not complete game pitchers (how many of them are there any more?) but if they can go 4-5 innings and keep the score close, that may be all that is needed. Sox are going to be wailing on the ball and putting up some softball scores so they are going to win some games where a starter gives up 3-5 runs in the first few innings. TLaR is not going to let any starter in for too long with the bullpen arms he has.

I would not worry about the back of rotation at this point. There is always an opportunity to add before the trading deadline.

IMHO, Bauer could pose a risk to team chemistry. Therefore, if the Sox pass on him and his personal demands (which are beyond salary) I am fine with that.

And Cruz?  Come on, we are loaded with hitters don't need to add another old hitter like Thome, Dunn, LaRoach, Todd Frazier, etc, at the end of their respective careers. Pack up the gear, get vaccinated,  and get ready for Spring Training.

Cease and Lopez were two of the worst pitchers in baseball last year.  Having them both in the rotation to start the year for a contending team is awful.  Don’t forget the offenses the Sox will face will be better this year, as the Central offenses were a disgrace.

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8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Cease and Lopez were two of the worst pitchers in baseball last year.  Having them both in the rotation to start the year for a contending team is awful.  Don’t forget the offenses the Sox will face will be better this year, as the Central offenses were a disgrace.

That and maybe it's just me. But I'm not all the sudden expecting a change of pitching coach to turn Cease into a Cy Young pitcher and a repeat of Giolito. Cease has alot of issues to fix. 

 

What happened to all those people who were more than willing to let Cease battle it out and struggle in the playoffs? 

Edited by Baron
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I've really liked Chase Anderson in the past; and I feel like last year is an aberration for him.

He had decent numbers when he was in Milwaukee.

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4 and 5 pitchers on most teams are among the worst in baseball.

With a strong bullpen and a smart Manager who knows how to use it, their exposure is going to be limited.

Also, we have Kopech and Crochet who may be ready to pick up some starts later in the season. 

Not every move has to be made right now. Hahn tried to fill all the holes in prior years and it didn't always work out. Gio Gonzo and Cishek?

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2 minutes ago, tray said:

4 and 5 pitchers on most teams are among the worst in baseball.

 

Huh? There's a difference between these guys aren't ideal for the starting rotation and these are the  worst guys in baseball. We had the latter. Both of those guys didn't give us a chance to win games a good portion of their starts. I don't see how that magically changes. 

Edited by Baron

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2 minutes ago, Baron said:

Huh? There's a difference between these guys aren't ideal for the starting rotation and these are the  worst guys in baseball. We had the latter. Both of those guys didn't give us a chance to win games a good portion of their starts. I don't see how that magically changes. 

Want to turn a strong bullpen into an average bullpen?  Have two pitchers that can’t give you quality innings at the back of your rotation.

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Is there a belief Harold that Folty’s velocity will return?  Also, Jesse Rogers reported today Cubs are interested in Arrieta, Trevor Williams and Chase Anderson.

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2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Want to turn a strong bullpen into an average bullpen?  Have two pitchers that can’t give you quality innings at the back of your rotation.

It's a repeat of last year. Difference is Lynn is in the rotation so that helps. 

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9 minutes ago, knightni said:

I've really liked Chase Anderson in the past; and I feel like last year is an aberration for him.

He had decent numbers when he was in Milwaukee.

I do too, sort of.  I liked him more until I saw his innings and pitch counts.  I realize that in the NL its harder to stay in the game with PH.  But in 2019, with Grandal, in 27 starts, he averaged ~17 pitcher per inning.  He also only average ~4.8 innings per start which includes some early exits though.   For the most part, he still pitched well, just took him a long time to do it.  That said, I would still not be all that upset if he were on our staff.  

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Just now, Rounding_Third said:

I do too, sort of.  I liked him more until I saw his innings and pitch counts.  I realize that in the NL its harder to stay in the game with PH.  But in 2019, with Grandal, in 27 starts, he averaged ~17 pitcher per inning.  He also only average ~4.8 innings per start which includes some early exits though.   For the most part, he still pitched well, just took him a long time to do it.  That said, I would still not be all that upset if he were on our staff.  

Counsell is very aggressive in terms of going to the pen

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23 minutes ago, Baron said:

That and maybe it's just me. But I'm not all the sudden expecting a change of pitching coach to turn Cease into a Cy Young pitcher and a repeat of Giolito. Cease has alot of issues to fix. 

 

What happened to all those people who were more than willing to let Cease battle it out and struggle in the playoffs? 

I am absolutely fine with Cease/Lopez, and the rest of them fighting it out for the 5th spot in the rotation, and Cease being the guy in the rotation come April.  It is pretty telling when you are coming out of this off season depending on two of them to start the season.

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2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Is there a belief Harold that Folty’s velocity will return?  Also, Jesse Rogers reported today Cubs are interested in Arrieta, Trevor Williams and Chase Anderson.

Dunno but on a minor league deal it's worth the chance.  

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4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Counsell is very aggressive in terms of going to the pen

No, I get it.  He still threw a lot of pitches.  On average, to pitch 6, he had to throw 102 pitches.  He'd be an okay 4th, though.

Edited by Rounding_Third

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3 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

No, I get it.  He still threw a lot of pitches.  On average, to pitch 6, he had to throw 102 pitches.  He'd be an okay 4th, though.

Of all the pitchers mentioned so far, I think my preference is Leake, depending on his $'s.  I know his metrics are a little concerning but they have been for a while and he still found a way to be efficiently successful.  Also, having last year off should help revitalize his arm.

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49 minutes ago, Baron said:

That and maybe it's just me. But I'm not all the sudden expecting a change of pitching coach to turn Cease into a Cy Young pitcher and a repeat of Giolito. Cease has alot of issues to fix. 

 

What happened to all those people who were more than willing to let Cease battle it out and struggle in the playoffs? 

Wouldn't it be something if Katz can fix Cease and Lopez?  It's not impossible that the FO is convinced that Katz is just that good.  After all, they did just give Lopez 2 million + when it would have been easy to release him.  They both have unquestioned stuff...just need to find the key to unlock the mental stuff.  It would go a long way in explaining why RH isn't in a rush to find a back of rotation arm.

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42 minutes ago, fathom said:

Want to turn a strong bullpen into an average bullpen?  Have two pitchers that can’t give you quality innings at the back of your rotation.

Lopez' high 2019 inning total would have not happened on any competitive team. But it's what will be pointed to. "If we could just forfeit every other fifth game"

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12 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

DOMBROOOWSKIIIIIIII!!!! *shakes fist*

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7 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Wouldn't it be something if Katz can fix Cease and Lopez?  It's not impossible that the FO is convinced that Katz is just that good.  After all, they did just give Lopez 2 million + when it would have been easy to release him.  They both have unquestioned stuff...just need to find the key to unlock the mental stuff.  It would go a long way in explaining why RH isn't in a rush to find a back of rotation arm.

It’s rather interesting how so many people are now implicitly saying “Don Cooper was just plain awful for years” and yet don’t take the next step of asking “so why did the Front Office keep him on for so long if he was doing that much damage?”.

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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It’s rather interesting how so many people are now implicitly saying “Don Cooper was just plain awful for years” and yet don’t take the next step of asking “so why did the Front Office keep him on for so long if he was doing that much damage?”.

I think part of this (not verified in any way beyond just watching) is I think coop probably used to have a lot more say in scouting of pitchers and front office in getting good pitchers for coop.

Starting with the rebuild that stopped happening. I think he can be good with veterans with established repertoire he can work with arsenals and savvy. But I think he was horrible communicating to younger, eager, athletic pitchers who still needed teaching.

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