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Sox resign Rodon 1 yr /3m official, Vargas DFA

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9 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

I was referencing innings pitched by Rodon. I definitely want Hamels. I’d have more faith in him then Rodon at this point 

Yes sir, sorry about that!  Dick Allen also pointed that out.  It took me a few rereads to realize it.  Funny think is I got a couple of likes out if it.

I'm hot & cold on Hamels.  He could be outstanding all year or done after a couple of starts.  Wish they would go after an innings eater like Leake.  They already have so much instability at 4 & 5. 

Edited by Rounding_Third

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Rodon is really no different than any other dumpster dive FA SP pitcher the Sox were rumored to sign (injury risk with potential with a history of some success), and 3mil is ridiculously cheap.  We just don’t like it because we actually watched his failures, and aren’t just reading them on Baseball Reference.

I am not crazy about it, but if Rodon actually conditions, displays the upper 90s fastball he flashed last season, let’s not forgot his slider can be a devastating out pitch.  He’s not a horrible option for SP depth.  He’s never actually been that bad when he’s on the mound.  Hopefully he can cover how many innings they will need out of him.
 

They do need to add one more pitcher of this ilk, as I don’t trust Cease at all and I want Kopech protected.  

 

 

Edited by Sambuca

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36 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

I would assume Mendick might return to help fill in this role of necessary. 

Leury's real primary position was SS.  He just learned to play everywhere else to stay on the roster.

 

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So who gets the boot off the 40 man?  Feels like Ruiz would be the favorite, although Vargas is another option.  I’d imagine Zavala is safe until they add another catcher.

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28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So who gets the boot off the 40 man?  Feels like Ruiz would be the favorite, although Vargas is another option.  I’d imagine Zavala is safe until they add another catcher.

I'd think it would be Ruiz, since we've all seen time and time again what he offers. I'm honestly surprised Zavala has held on for this long too.

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I have a feeling that Rodon will stay healthy and plug the 5th starter role quite well until Kopech is ready. It's not rational, given Rodon's repeated injuries. But Rodon's first two years were fine for that role, and he even pitched enough in his second two seasons to fill those starts.  Each of those 4 years left him with an ERA+ above 100. 

Now, you can't fully rely on him given his injury history. But you don't really want to sign someone like Hamels because neither can be sent to the minors. The Sox can still add, but it should be pitchers they can stash in AAA. That's why the discussions about Folty are regarding a minor league deal. 

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On 1/30/2021 at 9:28 AM, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I've been fine with having him back this whole time.  

Me too.  I'm just hoping it's the right "him".

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11 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I'd think it would be Ruiz, since we've all seen time and time again what he offers. I'm honestly surprised Zavala has held on for this long too.

Zavala is probably the 3rd catcher right  now.

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Probably $1M more than I would have liked, but I wanted to bring Rodon back.  I was hoping to bring him back as an insurance policy to a solid backend SP addition from FA.  Not as the backend SP from FA.  

Hopefully the Sox still plan on adding another SP.  

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18 hours ago, Sambuca said:

Rodon is really no different than any other dumpster dive FA SP pitcher the Sox were rumored to sign (injury risk with potential with a history of some success), and 3mil is ridiculously cheap.  We just don’t like it because we actually watched his failures, and aren’t just reading them on Baseball Reference.

I am not crazy about it, but if Rodon actually conditions, displays the upper 90s fastball he flashed last season, let’s not forgot his slider can be a devastating out pitch.  He’s not a horrible option for SP depth.  He’s never actually been that bad when he’s on the mound.  Hopefully he can cover how many innings they will need out of him.
 

They do need to add one more pitcher of this ilk, as I don’t trust Cease at all and I want Kopech protected.  

 

 

That and Rodon has been injured alot, bad, and is a Boras client. 

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On 1/30/2021 at 12:49 PM, Rowand44 said:

As a supposed World Series contender this is what we’re looking at.  Good stuff. 

I'm really sick of hearing the "we are a world series contender" like all contenders have lights out pitching from 1-5. THAT'S NOT TRUE! Look at what Tampa was putting on the mound all year? They were using openers for 40% of their rotation some of the year. The Dodgers didn't exactly light it up from pitchers 4-5. Look at the Yankees... Cole... then who? Twins... Maeda, Berrios... then who? 

 

Let's be realistic. Yes, it would have been BETTER to sign Bauer and have Cease as our guaranteed #5. However, there aren't many teams that can say they have a staff like that outside of 90's Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery. 

 

Get a grip on reality. 

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1 minute ago, TheCommish said:

I'm really sick of hearing the "we are a world series contender" like all contenders have lights out pitching from 1-5. THAT'S NOT TRUE! Look at what Tampa was putting on the mound all year? They were using openers for 40% of their rotation some of the year. The Dodgers didn't exactly light it up from pitchers 4-5. Look at the Yankees... Cole... then who? Twins... Maeda, Berrios... then who? 

 

Let's be realistic. Yes, it would have been BETTER to sign Bauer and have Cease as our guaranteed #5. However, there aren't many teams that can say they have a staff like that outside of 90's Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery.

 

Get a grip on reality. 

You mean currently or historically?

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25 minutes ago, TheCommish said:

I'm really sick of hearing the "we are a world series contender" like all contenders have lights out pitching from 1-5. THAT'S NOT TRUE! Look at what Tampa was putting on the mound all year? They were using openers for 40% of their rotation some of the year. The Dodgers didn't exactly light it up from pitchers 4-5. Look at the Yankees... Cole... then who? Twins... Maeda, Berrios... then who? 

 

Let's be realistic. Yes, it would have been BETTER to sign Bauer and have Cease as our guaranteed #5. However, there aren't many teams that can say they have a staff like that outside of 90's Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery. 

 

Get a grip on reality. 

This is exactly the point that the Sox whiffed on the off season.  If they had been able to add two quality starters to their rotation, as good as their pen and offense are, it gives this team another step towards WS level squad instead of just AL Central champion level,  hoping for prayers to be answered in the playoffs.

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18 hours ago, Sambuca said:

Rodon is really no different than any other dumpster dive FA SP pitcher the Sox were rumored to sign (injury risk with potential with a history of some success), and 3mil is ridiculously cheap.  We just don’t like it because we actually watched his failures, and aren’t just reading them on Baseball Reference.

I am not crazy about it, but if Rodon actually conditions, displays the upper 90s fastball he flashed last season, let’s not forgot his slider can be a devastating out pitch.  He’s not a horrible option for SP depth.  He’s never actually been that bad when he’s on the mound.  Hopefully he can cover how many innings they will need out of him.
 

They do need to add one more pitcher of this ilk, as I don’t trust Cease at all and I want Kopech protected.  

 

 

 

I think it's right to point out that Rodon has never been a bad pitcher for any extended stretch. We've all felt disappointment with him not meeting high expectations, but if he pitches anything like he used to he's a good value. Will he? Well we don't know, that's why he didn't get a $10M+ deal. But I also think you can't rule out the possibility that Carlos finds some of that ceiling we've all been hoping for, either, so there's some real upside in the deal.  I do think the main part of the deal that is questionable is that his health status makes it uncertain that he could cover the innings we might need. But I don't hate it and it's just not that much money.

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3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is exactly the point that the Sox whiffed on the off season.  If they had been able to add two quality starters to their rotation, as good as their pen and offense are, it gives this team another step towards WS level squad instead of just AL Central champion level,  hoping for prayers to be answered in the playoffs.

Well, somebody definitely whiffed on "the point."  

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1 minute ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Well, somebody definitely whiffed on "the point."  

If "the point" is that the White Sox are legitimate World Series contenders, I say "the point" was where the whiff occurred.  

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32 minutes ago, TheCommish said:

I'm really sick of hearing the "we are a world series contender" like all contenders have lights out pitching from 1-5. THAT'S NOT TRUE! Look at what Tampa was putting on the mound all year? They were using openers for 40% of their rotation some of the year. The Dodgers didn't exactly light it up from pitchers 4-5. Look at the Yankees... Cole... then who? Twins... Maeda, Berrios... then who? 

 

Let's be realistic. Yes, it would have been BETTER to sign Bauer and have Cease as our guaranteed #5. However, there aren't many teams that can say they have a staff like that outside of 90's Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery. 

 

Get a grip on reality. 

The Dodgers and Twins got nice production from 4 and 5 last season. We have a nice staff with potential, but having a stronger 4 or 5 to start the season gives you a better shot at the playoffs and protects you against injuries. You also need guys to eat innings so that your bullpen doesn't burn out by the end of the season. 

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6 minutes ago, Jake said:

 

I think it's right to point out that Rodon has never been a bad pitcher for any extended stretch. We've all felt disappointment with him not meeting high expectations, but if he pitches anything like he used to he's a good value. Will he? Well we don't know, that's why he didn't get a $10M+ deal. But I also think you can't rule out the possibility that Carlos finds some of that ceiling we've all been hoping for, either, so there's some real upside in the deal.  I do think the main part of the deal that is questionable is that his health status makes it uncertain that he could cover the innings we might need. But I don't hate it and it's just not that much money.

He has also never been a "good pitcher" for any stretch longer than 12 games or so, and that was the description of him before all the injuries.

When he came out with his best stuff, he would be able to dominate. He could then get by a handful of games on luck - giving up a lot of baserunners, but gets bailed out enough to keep the team in it. 

But he couldn't sustain that. His stretches of dominance were too short, and games where he struggled were common enough that he could never sustain being a "good pitcher". 

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I'm honestly surprised he wanted to come back to the Sox.  For 3 million I like the deal.  I can't stand Carlos but if he can find a little health he'll be a great middle reliever at that price.  I think the odds are decent, maybe like 60/40 he can produce something like a 3.20 ERA in ~70 innings.

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35 minutes ago, TheCommish said:

I'm really sick of hearing the "we are a world series contender" like all contenders have lights out pitching from 1-5. THAT'S NOT TRUE! Look at what Tampa was putting on the mound all year? They were using openers for 40% of their rotation some of the year. The Dodgers didn't exactly light it up from pitchers 4-5. Look at the Yankees... Cole... then who? Twins... Maeda, Berrios... then who? 

 

Let's be realistic. Yes, it would have been BETTER to sign Bauer and have Cease as our guaranteed #5. However, there aren't many teams that can say they have a staff like that outside of 90's Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery. 

 

Get a grip on reality. 

I think this site would be much shorter on wildly vacillating Hot TaEks if more people would take this approach of measuring this team's flaws against the flaws of the flawed teams against which it will be competing.  Seems obvious, but apparently not so.

[Cueing "but we're not the DODGERS!!!" in 3...2....]

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3 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

I think this site would be much shorter on wildly vacillating Hot TaEks if more people would take this approach of measuring this team's flaws against the flaws of the flawed teams against which it will be competing.  Seems obvious, but apparently not so.

[Cueing "but we're not the DODGERS!!!" in 3...2....]

I guess it all depends if you want this team to be "good" or a non-luck needing World Series contender.

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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

I guess it all depends if you want this team to be "good" or a non-luck needing World Series contender.

How many fans have been treated to a "non-luck needing World Series contender" in their lifetimes?  I can think of...well, none

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12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

He has also never been a "good pitcher" for any stretch longer than 12 games or so, and that was the description of him before all the injuries.

When he came out with his best stuff, he would be able to dominate. He could then get by a handful of games on luck - giving up a lot of baserunners, but gets bailed out enough to keep the team in it. 

But he couldn't sustain that. His stretches of dominance were too short, and games where he struggled were common enough that he could never sustain being a "good pitcher". 

If healthy he is a 1.5-2.0 WAR pitcher.

It is not about performance it is about health.

Comparing him to Dylan Covey as I think I read in this thread is arsine but pretty par for the course for this board this offseason.

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Just now, 35thstreetswarm said:

How many fans have been treated to a "non-luck needing World Series contender" in their lifetimes?  I can think of...well, none

Again, that all depends on your standards.  For most of the Sox universe, this is supposed to be a chance at sustained success and World Seriess' (plural).  If the standard for you is to make the playoffs, that is fine. But most see with some strategic pieces, this run could be potentially more than that.  That's not a "hot take" that is recognizing the difference between a playoff team and one that has what it takes to go all of hte way.  Think of it this way, do you want to see a repeat of last season where we made it, but were so flawed that we got beat by a not a not great team in the first round?  Do you want to repeat the Twins recent playoff history?  Because that is where we are now.

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