Soxsi75 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 What do you guys think? Personally, I'm disappointed we didn't put more of an effort to sign Cruz. Yeah, he's old, but he hasn't lost his bat speed. And it wouldn't be a long term deal. With him here, we could allow Vaughn to get his feet wet with say 150-200 at bats. Now we are expecting Vaughn to have 500+ at bats and he has to produce. Because there is no "playing for the future" anymore. Finishing second to Minnesota this year will not only be a disappointment it will be a failure. We can't make the "he needs time to develop at the major league level" excuse for him. He needs to produce now. If anyone says he might not be ready to, then that means we should have signed a veteran bat. And maybe he will. He's just untested. What does everyone else think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said: What do you guys think? Personally, I'm disappointed we didn't put more of an effort to sign Cruz. Yeah, he's old, but he hasn't lost his bat speed. And it wouldn't be a long term deal. With him here, we could allow Vaughn to get his feet wet with say 150-200 at bats. Now we are expecting Vaughn to have 500+ at bats and he has to produce. Because there is no "playing for the future" anymore. Finishing second to Minnesota this year will not only be a disappointment it will be a failure. We can't make the "he needs time to develop at the major league level" excuse for him. He needs to produce now. If anyone says he might not be ready to, then that means we should have signed a veteran bat. And maybe he will. He's just untested. What does everyone else think? Way more disappointed we didn't add another arm for the rotation. Edited February 7, 2021 by manbearpuig 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxsi75 Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Just now, manbearpuig said: Way more disappointed we didn't add another arm for the rotation. I already expressed my unhappiness about that in a different post because they resigned that piece of $%^% Rodon. Renteria gets fired because of the way he handled the pitching staff the last week of the season and the playoff series, and part of that was because he used that guy. And now we resign him to give him the ball every 5 days? So maybe the full question is, did management do EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING to win this year? Because like I said. Finishing second to Minnesota will be completely and utterly unacceptable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambuca Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 The answer was “yes” as soon as the question made it to the word “cheap.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 The two biggest holes on this roster are a decent #4 starter and a left-handed bat that plays the IF. Jerry not being willing to pony up like $3M for a Brad Miller type is beyond fucking pathetic. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 If you compare them to other contenders, there's no position player depth anywhere on the roster. The team is built with the expectation that Eloy, Robert, Moncada, TA, Madrigal, & Grandal will stay healthy. Maybe there's cover for Abreu. Maybe. But that's it. Anywhere else you immediately get into replacement level production. To not sign a Profar or La Stella like player is inexcusable. Expecting everyone to stay healthy and not slump is not realistic at all. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambuca Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 What’s funny is how pleased we’d probably be right now with a Derek Holland or Mat Latos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 They went cheap on every hole except closer. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said: If you compare them to other contenders, there's no position player depth anywhere on the roster. The team is built with the expectation that Eloy, Robert, Moncada, TA, Madrigal, & Grandal will stay healthy. Maybe there's cover for Abreu. Maybe. But that's it. Anywhere else you immediately get into replacement level production. To not sign a Profar or La Stella like player is inexcusable. Expecting everyone to stay healthy and not slump is not realistic at all. Yep. We're an injury away anywhere on the field from having slap hitter Leury filling in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 We’re currently 5th at this site to win the WS. https://www.vegasinsider.com/mlb/odds/futures/ Not even expecting them to beat the Twins this year unless they sign Odorizzi too and make the rotation more of a strength than a potential weakness. With Grandal, Moncada and Eaton, it’s not like we are totally bereft of LH hitters. We do need one more veteran LH bat, though. 2022 and 2023 are the years with zero excuses. That said, we can still make adjustments at the ASB, likely taking on a salary or two for the last 1/3rd of the season and playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Yeah, if Grandal goes down for an extended time, they’re really screwed without McCann to rely upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) Somebody important always gets injured, in 2019 it was Kopech, in 2020 it was Moncada. Given Eloy's oafishness in LF, it will probably be Eloy or Robert this year. Edited February 7, 2021 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Yeah, if Grandal goes down for an extended time, they’re really screwed without McCann to rely upon. This I don’t agree with. Most teams don’t have a top 5 catcher and then cry because they don’t have a top 10 to 15 catcher as their backup. We had a luxury last year and that shouldn’t never be the expectation. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Andrew Vaughn will tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 It's not going to be a pretty season when our guys start getting injured. We are quickly going to go from a WOW opening day lineup to a Well... it's OK lineup. With the talent of the starters and so many other teams tanking, we should be fine for a playoff spot, but it's going to be brutal.. when it didn't need to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxsi75 Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said: It's not going to be a pretty season when our guys start getting injured. We are quickly going to go from a WOW opening day lineup to a Well... it's OK lineup. With the talent of the starters and so many other teams tanking, we should be fine for a playoff spot, but it's going to be brutal.. when it didn't need to be. I think that's the perfect way to describe it. Couldn't have put that better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Friday Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 If the question starts with “did we go cheap...” and “we” means “white Sox” the answer is “probably” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Taking emotion out this response. 1. They believe in Cease. Not sure if this is Katz influenced or being cheap, but its CLEAR they think he can be a better #4 than what was on the market. That's a very fair risk. And they HAVE to go give Kopech as many innings as he can this season. He is too important for the rebuild to push aside. 2. They are going to go with Vaughn. Is it too early, yes, probably by a season. But no one really doubts his bat is gonna play. Should they have signed cruz...imo not after the encarnacion debacle. Hahn was gunshy on that one and was definitely Jerry driven. 3. They filled closer with the best closer currently in baseball. They overpaid slightly, but bullpens matter come the playoffs and they could have the best in baseball. 4. Left Handed depth or RF choice...this is where we should all be frustrated. Even though i think Eaton will be above average this season, his health history leaves the team at a deficit that can only be filled by Leury Garcia who is not versatile enough in the infield while so many solid utility guys were available. Time will tell which tactics will pay off and which magnify the "cheapness", but i think it is fair to say this team is built well enough to win the division and league even in spite of moves frustrating to keyboard warriors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said: It's not going to be a pretty season when our guys start getting injured. We are quickly going to go from a WOW opening day lineup to a Well... it's OK lineup. With the talent of the starters and so many other teams tanking, we should be fine for a playoff spot, but it's going to be brutal.. when it didn't need to be. I want to be clear because my comments have been misinterpreted in the past, but on paper we have one of the best rosters in the AL (with the potential to be the best) and if healthy we could be a real post-season threat given the strength of our top three starters, what should be a deep & dominant bullpen, and an excellent all-round lineup. Where I disagree with you is this idea we’re a guarantee to make the post-season. Unless they magically return to the expanded playoff format, we’ll be in a dog-fight with the Twins for the AL Central crown and with multiple teams for those two Wild Card spots. Again, on paper I think we’re better than pretty much any of theses teams except the Yankees, but all it takes is some injuries to derail this thing. The rotation and infield in particular lack real depth. While not likely, it’s entirely possible there will be a stretch where we’re starting both Mendick & Beckham in the infield or are rocking a rotation that includes all three of Cease, Rodon, & Lopez. And it’s all but a certainty that we’ll be seeing a lot of Engel or Leury in the OF, but at least the former provides plus defense. Point is if we have bad luck with injuries then our roster could be exposed and we could definitely miss out on even a Wild Card spot. I’m not asking for Bauer here, I’d be content with roughly $10M more in spending to sign a Brad Miller type and a #4 starter like Quintana. That’s all it would take to provide much greater depth at two major areas of concern, but instead we’re going to roll the dice and hope we get super lucky and avoid any lengthy injuries. All because Jerry Reinsdorf doesn’t want to take a one-time $10M hit in a go for it season. It’s fucking ridiculous that Hahn has to work under these parameters and the likely outcome is trading from an already thin farm system at the deadline to add depth that would only cost a little bit of money now. It’s an unnecessary risk to take, especially when you claim to have Championship aspirations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said: Taking emotion out this response. 1. They believe in Cease. Not sure if this is Katz influenced or being cheap, but its CLEAR they think he can be a better #4 than what was on the market. That's a very fair risk. And they HAVE to go give Kopech as many innings as he can this season. He is too important for the rebuild to push aside. 2. They are going to go with Vaughn. Is it too early, yes, probably by a season. But no one really doubts his bat is gonna play. Should they have signed cruz...imo not after the encarnacion debacle. Hahn was gunshy on that one and was definitely Jerry driven. 3. They filled closer with the best closer currently in baseball. They overpaid slightly, but bullpens matter come the playoffs and they could have the best in baseball. 4. Left Handed depth or RF choice...this is where we should all be frustrated. Even though i think Eaton will be above average this season, his health history leaves the team at a deficit that can only be filled by Leury Garcia who is not versatile enough in the infield while so many solid utility guys were available. Time will tell which tactics will pay off and which magnify the "cheapness", but i think it is fair to say this team is built well enough to win the division and league even in spite of moves frustrating to keyboard warriors. Here’s the problem. I’m hopeful that Ceases takes a massive leap forward, but that’s not a guarantee after a horrible 2020 season. He should be the #5 starter to open the season with a better #4 starter brought in. I love Kopech but there is nothing wrong with him pitching in AAA until an injury opens up a spot or until he forces the issue. Smart organizations plan for injuries and as constructed things could get real ugly quick with an injury to the big three. Perhaps Don Cooper was so bad at his job that there is a lot more optimism for guys like Rodon & Lopez, but it all seems like unnecessary risk driven by budget considerations. As for Vaughn, I think he’s going to be a star at some point, but that‘s a ton to put on the kid without a solid backup plan. That doesn’t mean we have to go sign Nelson Cruz, but even a left-handed role player would do wonders for this roster. Leury & Engel are both weak against RHP and Mendick is mediocre all around. I’m may be the biggest Zack Collins fan on this board, but it’s a bit scary to think that he’s our likely DH to open the season with only Mercedes to provide any real competition. Brad Miller has a career 111 wRC+ against RHP and can actually play a variety of positions. He’d give another option to throw into the DH mix until Vaughn is ready and would likely not cost all that much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 35 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said: Taking emotion out this response. 1. They believe in Cease. Not sure if this is Katz influenced or being cheap, but its CLEAR they think he can be a better #4 than what was on the market. That's a very fair risk. And they HAVE to go give Kopech as many innings as he can this season. He is too important for the rebuild to push aside. 2. They are going to go with Vaughn. Is it too early, yes, probably by a season. But no one really doubts his bat is gonna play. Should they have signed cruz...imo not after the encarnacion debacle. Hahn was gunshy on that one and was definitely Jerry driven. 3. They filled closer with the best closer currently in baseball. They overpaid slightly, but bullpens matter come the playoffs and they could have the best in baseball. 4. Left Handed depth or RF choice...this is where we should all be frustrated. Even though i think Eaton will be above average this season, his health history leaves the team at a deficit that can only be filled by Leury Garcia who is not versatile enough in the infield while so many solid utility guys were available. Time will tell which tactics will pay off and which magnify the "cheapness", but i think it is fair to say this team is built well enough to win the division and league even in spite of moves frustrating to keyboard warriors. 1) It's fine if they believe in cease, I'm perfectly content with having him in the rotation. It's also great to be optimistic bout Kopech. But the idea that they can round out the rotation is absurd. Most teams are going to 6-maan rotations and the best teams are building depth at 7/8 man rotations. You can accomplish all your goals here AAND add 1-2 more decent SPs. That is what we *should* be doing. We can't count on Kopech for anything right now, and we have no back up plans to handle injury. I guarantee you at least 2 of our main guys will go on DL stints this year. Because we didn't spend the 5-10 mil on aa 1 year contract for a decent SP we are going to be lacking in depth in the rotation and there's going to be too many games where we start no names who shouldn't see MLB. 2) Again, it's great that we can go with Vaughn. Why not sign 2 quality back ups who can also DH? I'm not saying to go after Cruz, but get more depth. We can get depth AND have Vaughn penciled in as our DH. Tommy La Stella, Brad Miller, and a SP or two would take this team to the next level in terms of depth and quality. Line up depth would be covered, SP depth covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 I like the idea of Brad Miller. One thing of note too...if covid is still affecting the attendance numbers...other teams will be dumping at the deadline. Sox can get a pitcher then as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said: I like the idea of Brad Miller. One thing of note too...if covid is still affecting the attendance numbers...other teams will be dumping at the deadline. Sox can get a pitcher then as well... And then end up paying $$$ and prospects instead of just paying $$$ now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounding_Third Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said: 1) It's fine if they believe in cease, I'm perfectly content with having him in the rotation. It's also great to be optimistic bout Kopech. But the idea that they can round out the rotation is absurd. Most teams are going to 6-maan rotations and the best teams are building depth at 7/8 man rotations. You can accomplish all your goals here AAND add 1-2 more decent SPs. That is what we *should* be doing. We can't count on Kopech for anything right now, and we have no back up plans to handle injury. I guarantee you at least 2 of our main guys will go on DL stints this year. Because we didn't spend the 5-10 mil on aa 1 year contract for a decent SP we are going to be lacking in depth in the rotation and there's going to be too many games where we start no names who shouldn't see MLB. 2) Again, it's great that we can go with Vaughn. Why not sign 2 quality back ups who can also DH? I'm not saying to go after Cruz, but get more depth. We can get depth AND have Vaughn penciled in as our DH. Tommy La Stella, Brad Miller, and a SP or two would take this team to the next level in terms of depth and quality. Line up depth would be covered, SP depth covered. The last few Sox moves & words seem to signal that they're pretty much done. With a few decent FA SP's and LH bats still available and money left in the budget, I hoping that they're just waiting to see how ST goes and try to get them cheaper, too. But, for now, their depth plan is like trying to fix all your repairs with duct tape and if it doesn't work, just add more duct tape and hope for the best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 10 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: The two biggest holes on this roster are a decent #4 starter and a left-handed bat that plays the IF. Jerry not being willing to pony up like $3M for a Brad Miller type is beyond fucking pathetic. Why don't you exaggerate a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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