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Did We Go Cheap Not Signing Another Bat?


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1 hour ago, EloyJenkins said:

I like the idea of Brad Miller. One thing of note too...if covid is still affecting the attendance numbers...other teams will be dumping at the deadline. Sox can get a pitcher then as well...

Almost all the games vs Twins this year are prior to the deadline, IIRC

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Oh my God!  How many more threads are gonna be started bitching about the organization/ owner being cheap, about how we should have done this or done that or added this for that much money. 

I like Rick Hahn's Hoosiers quote, "Our team is on the floor." And it's a damn good team, a damn good one. It is exactly what we fan wanted; it's a World Series contender, a strong World Series contender. For all the bitching on this forum, that is all a fan can ever ask for. 

In this post and so many complaining others the "there's no guarantee" or "what if so and so gets injured, there's not quality backup".  People are upset that, with this present line up (this team "on the floor") that for the White Sox to win the World Series, things really have to go right; they need to stay injury free. That complain is made over and over and over. Well . . .  No Duh!!

Every team ever is like that. If they don't have luck and stay injury free, they're not going to win the World Series. There's never a guarantee, never. Nobody in MLB has spent more money or had better personal or farms systems than the Dodgers and Yankees since the 2000s. Yet before this year, the Dodgers hadn't won a World Series before 1988 (That makes our 2005 win seem recent). The Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2009. No amount of money spent can guarantee a World Series and protect a team from injuries derailing a promising season. I got news for you guys: if Mookie Betts goes down either to injury or a bad slump and one of their top pitchers gets hurt for a long time, that $40 million on Bauer ain't gonna matter. Same thing with the Yankees or Padres, if they lose two important players, they're not making the World Series. 

So it's equally true for the White Sox. If one of our big pitchers go down and we lose one of our big bats, I got news for you, a back up LH bat and better back up catcher isn't going to matter. It ALWAYS comes down to a lot of luck and staying injury free, always. 

I'm excited to see what Vaugh can do. And I've said this before: I absolutely did not want Nelson Cruz, that steroid cheater. I don't want to cheer for a Cruz; I want a team I can be proud of.  

For all our complaining, I want to see what Collins can do, or to see a huge jump in performance from Cease. If we worked in the same office and could have a solid, hand-shake bet, I would bet that Cease has a better year than Musgrove or Taillon or whatever oft-injured pitcher somebody on here mentioned that the Sox have to have to "guarantee" success. 

To justify their complains, people on here are making statement and taking off with them like they're absolute facts. Come on, really?  Are the Sox really not going to make the World Series because Joc Pederson is soooo much better than Eaton. Yet people are having shit fits on this board because we didn't sign Pederson. Or someone bitching about this back up infielder is so necessary when the Sox have Leury Garcia. Really? Are any of the many names listed on here THAT MUCH better than Leury? Ridiculous. 

For all of the complaining on this board, in my opinion, the rebuilt has been a total success, and we have to give Hahn and management credit for it. This White Sox team is what we wanted: It is a strong World Series contender and will be for, at least, four or five years. There are no guarantees (again, ask the Yankees and Dodgers fans). 

All fans can realistically ask for is the ownership and management to give them a a strong team, a team that is a serious World Series contender. And we have that, so if only for a minute or a thread or two, just stop bitchin'!

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2 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

 

Oh my God!  How many more threads are gonna be started bitching about the organization/ owner being cheap, about how we should have done this or done that or added this for that much money. 

I like Rick Hahn's Hoosiers quote, "Our team is on the floor." And it's a damn good team, a damn good one. It is exactly what we fan wanted; it's a World Series contender, a strong World Series contender. For all the bitching on this forum, that is all a fan can ever ask for. 

In this post and so many complaining others the "there's no guarantee" or "what if so and so gets injured, there's not quality backup".  People are upset that, with this present line up (this team "on the floor") that for the White Sox to win the World Series, things really have to go right; they need to stay injury free. That complain is made over and over and over. Well . . .  No Duh!!

Every team ever is like that. If they don't have luck and stay injury free, they're not going to win the World Series. There's never a guarantee, never. Nobody in MLB has spent more money or had better personal or farms systems than the Dodgers and Yankees since the 2000s. Yet before this year, the Dodgers hadn't won a World Series before 1988 (That makes our 2005 win seem recent). The Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2009. No amount of money spent can guarantee a World Series and protect a team from injuries derailing a promising season. I got news for you guys: if Mookie Betts goes down either to injury or a bad slump and one of their top pitchers gets hurt for a long time, that $40 million on Bauer ain't gonna matter. Same thing with the Yankees or Padres, if they lose two important players, they're not making the World Series. 

So it's equally true for the White Sox. If one of our big pitchers go down and we lose one of our big bats, I got news for you, a back up LH bat and better back up catcher isn't going to matter. It ALWAYS comes down to a lot of luck and staying injury free, always. 

I'm excited to see what Vaugh can do. And I've said this before: I absolutely did not want Nelson Cruz, that steroid cheater. I don't want to cheer for a Cruz; I want a team I can be proud of.  

For all our complaining, I want to see what Collins can do, or to see a huge jump in performance from Cease. If we worked in the same office and could have a solid, hand-shake bet, I would bet that Cease has a better year than Musgrove or Taillon or whatever oft-injured pitcher somebody on here mentioned that the Sox have to have to "guarantee" success. 

To justify their complains, people on here are making statement and taking off with them like they're absolute facts. Come on, really?  Are the Sox really not going to make the World Series because Joc Pederson is soooo much better than Eaton. Yet people are having shit fits on this board because we didn't sign Pederson. Or someone bitching about this back up infielder is so necessary when the Sox have Leury Garcia. Really? Are any of the many names listed on here THAT MUCH better than Leury? Ridiculous. 

For all of the complaining on this board, in my opinion, the rebuilt has been a total success, and we have to give Hahn and management credit for it. This White Sox team is what we wanted: It is a strong World Series contender and will be for, at least, four or five years. There are no guarantees (again, ask the Yankees and Dodgers fans). 

All fans can realistically ask for is the ownership and management to give them a a strong team, a team that is a serious World Series contender. And we have that, so if only for a minute or a thread or two, just stop bitchin'!

It really is getting extremely annoying. I'm considering jumping ship until opening day.

Great post btw.

Edited by ScooterMcGee
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I'm ok with not signing a DH. I think there is a good chance that vaughn is decent enough with a chance that he is good.

And even if he is just a 95 wrc+ guy as an absolute floor for his first year the lineup can take that.

Yeah the lineup is still a bit too right handed but with enough elite right handed hitters that is ok (kinda like the 2015 blue jays).

Much more important is getting another starter as even if cease takes a step forward there still is no depth and one injury could be quite a problem.

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If you look at our lineup, the DH slot prob hits 7-8 when it is Collins/Mercedes eventually Vaughn who could go to 6.

We have some players who may regress but look at the potential improvement

Edwin OPS .627

Mazzara     .589

Moncada(ill) .705

Robert         .738

Not having the veteran DH only, allows you to mix and match, try multiple, ride the hot hand, rest guys.  A manager who should know how to handle that part of strategy especially since the NL game required more manager maneuvering is also in place.  

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4 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

Isn't Marwen Gonzalez still out there? He can play most anywhere and fill DH until Vaughn is ready. He can give moncada & Abreu a day off from fielding. He is Eaton/jimenez injury insurance. Switch hitter

He’s going to get a MLB contract

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Looked at Marwin.  Surprised that besides 2017, he hasn't been very good.  Flat out bad last year with OPS .606   I could see minor league invite but doubt takes.  These are guys who may go to a bad team that offers regular playing time/ML contract.  

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12 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

We’re currently 5th at this site to win the WS.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/mlb/odds/futures/

 

Not even expecting them to beat the Twins this year unless they sign Odorizzi too and make the rotation more of a strength than a potential weakness.

With Grandal, Moncada and Eaton, it’s not like we are totally bereft of LH hitters.  We do need one more veteran LH bat, though.

2022 and 2023 are the years with zero excuses.

That said, we can still make adjustments at the ASB, likely taking on a salary or two for the last 1/3rd of the season and playoffs.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

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2 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

 

Oh my God!  How many more threads are gonna be started bitching about the organization/ owner being cheap, about how we should have done this or done that or added this for that much money. 

I like Rick Hahn's Hoosiers quote, "Our team is on the floor." And it's a damn good team, a damn good one. It is exactly what we fan wanted; it's a World Series contender, a strong World Series contender. For all the bitching on this forum, that is all a fan can ever ask for. 

In this post and so many complaining others the "there's no guarantee" or "what if so and so gets injured, there's not quality backup".  People are upset that, with this present line up (this team "on the floor") that for the White Sox to win the World Series, things really have to go right; they need to stay injury free. That complain is made over and over and over. Well . . .  No Duh!!

Every team ever is like that. If they don't have luck and stay injury free, they're not going to win the World Series. There's never a guarantee, never. Nobody in MLB has spent more money or had better personal or farms systems than the Dodgers and Yankees since the 2000s. Yet before this year, the Dodgers hadn't won a World Series before 1988 (That makes our 2005 win seem recent). The Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2009. No amount of money spent can guarantee a World Series and protect a team from injuries derailing a promising season. I got news for you guys: if Mookie Betts goes down either to injury or a bad slump and one of their top pitchers gets hurt for a long time, that $40 million on Bauer ain't gonna matter. Same thing with the Yankees or Padres, if they lose two important players, they're not making the World Series. 

So it's equally true for the White Sox. If one of our big pitchers go down and we lose one of our big bats, I got news for you, a back up LH bat and better back up catcher isn't going to matter. It ALWAYS comes down to a lot of luck and staying injury free, always. 

I'm excited to see what Vaugh can do. And I've said this before: I absolutely did not want Nelson Cruz, that steroid cheater. I don't want to cheer for a Cruz; I want a team I can be proud of.  

For all our complaining, I want to see what Collins can do, or to see a huge jump in performance from Cease. If we worked in the same office and could have a solid, hand-shake bet, I would bet that Cease has a better year than Musgrove or Taillon or whatever oft-injured pitcher somebody on here mentioned that the Sox have to have to "guarantee" success. 

To justify their complains, people on here are making statement and taking off with them like they're absolute facts. Come on, really?  Are the Sox really not going to make the World Series because Joc Pederson is soooo much better than Eaton. Yet people are having shit fits on this board because we didn't sign Pederson. Or someone bitching about this back up infielder is so necessary when the Sox have Leury Garcia. Really? Are any of the many names listed on here THAT MUCH better than Leury? Ridiculous. 

For all of the complaining on this board, in my opinion, the rebuilt has been a total success, and we have to give Hahn and management credit for it. This White Sox team is what we wanted: It is a strong World Series contender and will be for, at least, four or five years. There are no guarantees (again, ask the Yankees and Dodgers fans). 

All fans can realistically ask for is the ownership and management to give them a a strong team, a team that is a serious World Series contender. And we have that, so if only for a minute or a thread or two, just stop bitchin'!

World Series contenders have more than three established starting pitchers. I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. Legitimate contenders have been investing in depth for like TEN YEARS now. The White Sox go into every "contending season" needing every player to perform to his full potential in order to succeed. EVERYONE in the industry, including the White Sox, know that this is a dumb plan.

Fanbases get excited about a rebuild coming together because it produces a situation where three quarters of your team is filled with pre-arb players, so even a small-mid market team is capable of spending to fill up the last quarter. Where most teams see this state as an OPPORTUNITY to spend money to make an impact, the White Sox see this state as an excuse NOT to spend money. And the "argument" sounds exactly like your post. "Aw come on, don't focus on what we DON'T have, focus on what we DO have! Look at these several exciting players, isn't that good enough?!" That's not how teams operate when they want to win championships, it's how they operate when they want to maintain the relevance required to keep making money. It's not thinking like a winner, it's thinking like a fucking hedge fund manager.

The truth is, of course, that money FOLLOWS excellence in sports. There are a ton of ways to make money in this country -- people like Steinbrenner do it with an unwavering commitment to dominate his field, people like Jerry Reinsdorf should stick to selling real estate.

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22 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

Betting odds are not projections.

And yet they outperform most, if not all, projections.

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27 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

In what way? They don't even have the same goals.

Do you have a citation?

Do Fangraphs and most of the elite projection models have the Twins now ahead of the White Sox?

At peak, we certainly have more potential, but certainly wouldn’t be betting my house in Lawrence on it, either.

Edited by caulfield12
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33 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

In what way? They don't even have the same goals.

Do you have a citation?

They've proven to be very good at projections, whether that is their intention or not. There's a ton of research on that with ncaa basketball in particular, but for sake of argument here's one on MLB win totals. Since its a 7 year old article, it would figure that vegas has only gotten better at it since betting has exploded and Vegas predictions gets it strength from the crowd sourcing factor.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-imperfect-pursuit-of-a-perfect-baseball-forecast/

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3 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

 

Oh my God!  How many more threads are gonna be started bitching about the organization/ owner being cheap, about how we should have done this or done that or added this for that much money. 

I like Rick Hahn's Hoosiers quote, "Our team is on the floor." And it's a damn good team, a damn good one. It is exactly what we fan wanted; it's a World Series contender, a strong World Series contender. For all the bitching on this forum, that is all a fan can ever ask for. 

In this post and so many complaining others the "there's no guarantee" or "what if so and so gets injured, there's not quality backup".  People are upset that, with this present line up (this team "on the floor") that for the White Sox to win the World Series, things really have to go right; they need to stay injury free. That complain is made over and over and over. Well . . .  No Duh!!

Every team ever is like that. If they don't have luck and stay injury free, they're not going to win the World Series. There's never a guarantee, never. Nobody in MLB has spent more money or had better personal or farms systems than the Dodgers and Yankees since the 2000s. Yet before this year, the Dodgers hadn't won a World Series before 1988 (That makes our 2005 win seem recent). The Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2009. No amount of money spent can guarantee a World Series and protect a team from injuries derailing a promising season. I got news for you guys: if Mookie Betts goes down either to injury or a bad slump and one of their top pitchers gets hurt for a long time, that $40 million on Bauer ain't gonna matter. Same thing with the Yankees or Padres, if they lose two important players, they're not making the World Series. 

So it's equally true for the White Sox. If one of our big pitchers go down and we lose one of our big bats, I got news for you, a back up LH bat and better back up catcher isn't going to matter. It ALWAYS comes down to a lot of luck and staying injury free, always. 

I'm excited to see what Vaugh can do. And I've said this before: I absolutely did not want Nelson Cruz, that steroid cheater. I don't want to cheer for a Cruz; I want a team I can be proud of.  

For all our complaining, I want to see what Collins can do, or to see a huge jump in performance from Cease. If we worked in the same office and could have a solid, hand-shake bet, I would bet that Cease has a better year than Musgrove or Taillon or whatever oft-injured pitcher somebody on here mentioned that the Sox have to have to "guarantee" success. 

To justify their complains, people on here are making statement and taking off with them like they're absolute facts. Come on, really?  Are the Sox really not going to make the World Series because Joc Pederson is soooo much better than Eaton. Yet people are having shit fits on this board because we didn't sign Pederson. Or someone bitching about this back up infielder is so necessary when the Sox have Leury Garcia. Really? Are any of the many names listed on here THAT MUCH better than Leury? Ridiculous. 

For all of the complaining on this board, in my opinion, the rebuilt has been a total success, and we have to give Hahn and management credit for it. This White Sox team is what we wanted: It is a strong World Series contender and will be for, at least, four or five years. There are no guarantees (again, ask the Yankees and Dodgers fans). 

All fans can realistically ask for is the ownership and management to give them a a strong team, a team that is a serious World Series contender. And we have that, so if only for a minute or a thread or two, just stop bitchin'!

Thanks for posting this...and post more often.   It is the oddest thing that so many of the regular posters seem to hate the team.  I have followed the team like a religion since the early 70's and this is not only the best young team I've followed they might have the best farm team too...and a hall of fame manager, and are managing the budget to try to keep the window open for the longest time possible...and yet somehow every positive is a hidden negative and every negative is a fatal flaw.   Just know that there are a lot of us silently watching.  If we can't enjoy this team now we can never enjoy anything.      

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7 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

They've proven to be very good at projections, whether that is their intention or not. There's a ton of research on that with ncaa basketball in particular, but for sake of argument here's one on MLB win totals. Since its a 7 year old article, it would figure that vegas has only gotten better at it since betting has exploded and Vegas predictions gets it strength from the crowd sourcing factor.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-imperfect-pursuit-of-a-perfect-baseball-forecast/

I see, yes, this makes sense on a PECOTA season-style projection, which is essentially an over-under.

I don't think this applies to World Series odds, though.

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