NFL 2021 offseason thread

[bmags]

Just now, Tony said:

I don’t think it means that at all. 
 

Pace and Nagy suck but they aren’t stupid. If they thought their jobs 100% depended on this upcoming season and winning results...I can’t imagine they make this move. I think they have more security than we think. 

No, Nagy thinks he has a good offense and if someone just really knows it in their heart it can succeed but keeps getting undercut by gutless QBs.

Pace thought Mike Glennon was good.

[Tony]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Did Foles look the part last year though?  I get he was intended to be that guy, but in all honesty he failed last year and allowed Mitch Trubisky to regain his job.  Whether you like Dalton or not as a cheap placeholder, Foles most certainly wasn’t the answer.

He wasn’t the answer because they were asking the wrong question. Starter than can make players better and win? No.

A “bridge QB” as you mentioned? Foles can 100% be that guy for a number of starts. Additionally, I see NOTHING that tells me Andy Dalton is a significant upgrade at all over Foles in 2021

[Chisoxfn]

40 minutes ago, Tony said:

YOU HAVE THAT GUY ON THE ROSTER ALREADY. 

I'm not of the opinion that Nick Foles and Andy Dalton are comparable.  Andy Dalton is a legit top 15-20 NFL starting QB (unless father time has caught him).  Nick Foles is an above average back-up and a bottom 5 starting QB.  One is not like the other. 

Dalton is a 9 year NFL starting caliber QB - who had winning records in 5 of those 9 years.  Very definition of a middle of the pack starter.  

Nick Foles has never started more than 11 games.  Yes he won a super bowl and got amazingly hot at one time.  But in his 9 year career - only twice has he started > 50% of his teams game in any individual season.  

I don't like Dalton and he doesn't dramatically change the trajectory - but I don't believe he is in the same class at Foles.  He isn't and he would have been a Bear a year ago if Pace didn't misjudge last years QB market and panic on Foles.  

[Chicago White Sox]

39 minutes ago, Tony said:

This new info just backs up my point. Fine...you can't get Russ. Watson is going to cost too much.......Why are you spending money to bring in Andy Dalton? You have Foles on the roster and if you aren't drafting a QB in the early rounds of the draft I don't know what the hell you're doing anyway......what's the point? 

Why does Andy Dalton stop them from drafting a QB in the 1st?

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why does Andy Dalton stop them from drafting a QB in the 1st?

Does it stop them? No. Is it really weird to do when you already have Foles? Yes. The mentor angle isn’t there. 

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I'm not of the opinion that Nick Foles and Andy Dalton are comparable.  Andy Dalton is a legit top 15-20 NFL starting QB (unless father time has caught him).  Nick Foles is an above average back-up and a bottom 5 starting QB.  One is not like the other. 

Dalton is a 9 year NFL starting caliber QB - who had winning records in 5 of those 9 years.  Very definition of a middle of the pack starter.  

Nick Foles has never started more than 11 games.  Yes he won a super bowl and got amazingly hot at one time.  But in his 9 year career - only twice has he started > 50% of his teams game in any individual season.  

I don't like Dalton and he doesn't dramatically change the trajectory - but I don't believe he is in the same class at Foles.  He isn't and he would have been a Bear a year ago if Pace didn't misjudge last years QB market and panic on Foles.  

The problem is we just saw him with a pretty stacked offense and he was terrible and he seems to have regressed and it really, really is questionable to me whether he’s better than Trubisky whose 2018 was quite similar to peak Dalton.

[Tony]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

I'm not of the opinion that Nick Foles and Andy Dalton are comparable.  Andy Dalton is a legit top 15-20 NFL starting QB (unless father time has caught him).  .  

Jason, will all due respect...piss off. 
 

In no order:

1. Mahomes

2. Josh Allen

3. Kyler Murray

4. Lamar Jackson

5. DeShaun Watson

6. Dak Prescott 

7. Aaron Rodgers

8. Justin Herbert 

9. Ryan Tannehill 

10. Tom Brady

11. Matthew Stanford 

12. Joe Burrow

13. Matt Ryan

14. Kirk Cousins

15. Baker Mayfield 

16. Derek Carr

17. Trevor Lawrence 

18. Ben Rotheslberger

19. Jared Goff

20. Carson Wentz 

21. Sam Darnold

22. Daniel Jones 

23. Jimmy G 

24. Cam Newton

25. Teddy Bridgewater

26. Ryan Fitzpatrick 

27. Jameis Winston 

28. I’d take Tua over Dalton at this point. 
 

29. maybe Dalton at this point? 

 

[Tony]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why does Andy Dalton stop them from drafting a QB in the 1st?

It doesn’t and absolutely shouldn’t. That’s the point. You should be doing that already with Nick Foles on the roster. 

I don’t understand what you aren’t grasping here. It’s like Nick Foles doesn’t exist on the roster for you. If you want an incredibly average, veteran QB to “bridge the gap” you already have that guy on the team. Why are you spending money on Dalton?  

[bmags]

It’s just so sad that George McCaskey has to pay for friendship.

[Chicago White Sox]

29 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

But why is Dalton and $10M more in salary to go 8-8 better than Foles and no more salary to go 6-10?

Look, I didn’t get to watch Dalton enough last year to know what he has left in the tank.  What I do know is Foles isn’t the answer and I wouldn’t expect Pace to roll with him as his placeholder QB with his career on the line.  I also think if we get Mac Jones we’re in need of a veteran who only needs to start 5 to 6 games before handing the reigns over.  Call it a poor use or resources or poor scouting, but if Dalton is better than Foles (and the guy I saw two years ago clearly was) then it’s worth the money given the defense we have in place.  It’s probably a long-shot to work, but it’s not going to fuck up our future at least which is my primary fear with Pace in charge.

[Chisoxfn]

27 minutes ago, bmags said:

I do stand with chisoxfn on the point that if you were a bears fatalist this is a great day for you. You already wanted bears to fire sale, this will get a high draft pick next year, you didn’t “sell the future” and it guarantees Pace/Nagy are fired.

Worst case scenario was probably like trading for Stafford. A nearly great QB that would have cost a ton in all respects and probably saved their jobs.

This - And I'm not in that camp. I get it - I wanted a superstar more than anyone, but this isn't anywhere near as high on the list of awful moves that were out there. There were a whole lot of moves I would have hated.  I don't think this move makes you go - oh yeah - we are awesome, but Dalton > Foles and this contract does nothing to impact LT viability.  

I fully expect them to get a 1st round QB and/or remain active and aggressive with Wilson/Watson...but they also couldn't just sit back and do absolutely nothing. Using Foles as a starter and drafting Kyle Trask is what I would have said is the biggest disaster (if I were Pace). In this case - with Dalton they very well could remain a playoff team and just keep buying time to swing bigger at QB (or have a young QB on the way).  

It is all made worse because the Foles move was so bad - sucks - cause I said it a year ago. I hated it than and I still hate it now.  The big piece I always hated was the fact that we were on the hook in year 2 at the price we are talking about cause it locked in the future. With Dalton - we have none of that downside and my guess is we'll see them upgrade the oline (if they don't draft a QB) and look at foundational builds and a bump-up in the defense as one strategy to buying time (Pace/Nagy).  All of those items either have no impact on a future admin and/or just put a better foundation for whomever your new franchise QB eventually is.  

[Chisoxfn]

25 minutes ago, Tony said:

He wasn’t the answer because they were asking the wrong question. Starter than can make players better and win? No.

A “bridge QB” as you mentioned? Foles can 100% be that guy for a number of starts. Additionally, I see NOTHING that tells me Andy Dalton is a significant upgrade at all over Foles in 2021

Foles can not be a bridge starter on a team that is trying to make the playoffs. Not win a superbowl...but make the playoffs.  Dalton can absolutely be a bridge starter on a team that contends for a playoff spot.  Nick Foles is a career BACKUP. He's good at that and can have a string of games where he plays at a top 10 level, but over a full season, he is a bottom 10 QB who was a significant downgrade from Trubisky (who is a bottom 10 QB).  

I should caveat - I have not paid any attention to an Andy Dalton game in 3 years - so it might be Andy Dalton's game has taken steps back due to injuries and/or father time and he actually is a back-up at this point and no different than Foles. I'm assuming that isn't the case and it was rather a year ago - no one was that interested in him because the market for a middle of the road QB just wasn't that high (teams were either invested in their young QB and/or more focused on drafting an alternative).  

[Dick Allen]

The sad thing is the Bears would have rather traded for Foles than sign Dalton last year. But what do you expect? All of Pace’s QB decisions have been massive fails.

[bmags]

Hysterically funny

 

[Tony]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

Foles can not be a bridge starter on a team that is trying to make the playoffs. Not win a superbowl...but make the playoffs.  Dalton can absolutely be a bridge starter on a team that contends for a playoff spot.  Nick Foles is a career BACKUP. He's good at that and can have a string of games where he plays at a top 10 level, but over a full season, he is a bottom 10 QB who was a significant downgrade from Trubisky (who is a bottom 10 QB).  

1. If they acquired Dalton so they can get closer to contending for a playoff spot in 2021, that’s an incredibly sad statement 

2. Prepare to be MASSIVELY disappointed in Andy Dalton. 

[bmags]

Yeah Dalton is worse, he’s broken from the last few years.

he was more fun when he was younger, but now he’s a check down boy like mitch, but not mobile.

[chw42]

46 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Lets be realistic, all the Bears needed to do was invest more in their offensive line but they didn’t do that and now look where they are at. They are so far behind that they now have to possibly draft a QB and offensive lineman. Trubisky might have had a better chance if he had a better line to work with. Watch, now he is going to go to a different team with a better offensive line and is going to light it up.

Mitch has issues reading defenses and making the correct decisions. A good offensive line will help give him more time to process things, but it won't make him a good QB.

[Chisoxfn]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The sad thing is the Bears would have rather traded for Foles than sign Dalton last year. But what do you expect? All of Pace’s QB decisions have been massive fails.

I legitimately think if Pace had a time-machine and saw how the FA QB market would have played out a year ago - he would NOT have gotten Foles. I think he misjudged what guys like Dalton/Newton were going to get and felt that his only option was trading for Foles because he wasn't going to be able to make Dalton/Newton work.  Clearly he was wrong - but I don't know that anyone thought Newton was going to sign a 1YR deal and even with Dalton - I think everyone expected him to make more (and in that case - you have to win the bid).  

[Chisoxfn]

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

1. If they acquired Dalton so they can get closer to contending for a playoff spot in 2021, that’s an incredibly sad statement 

2. Prepare to be MASSIVELY disappointed in Andy Dalton. 

If Dalton is what you guys say - and massively worse than who he was 2-3 years ago - than you guys are 1000% right.  

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

Lets be realistic, all the Bears needed to do was invest more in their offensive line but they didn’t do that and now look where they are at. They are so far behind that they now have to possibly draft a QB and offensive lineman. Trubisky might have had a better chance if he had a better line to work with. Watch, now he is going to go to a different team with a better offensive line and is going to light it up.

Mitch can’t reliably pass beyond 10 yards and a better line wouldn’t change that.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

How is Foles not mentioned in this post?

Because my view is Dalton is likely better than Foles and that Foles will be gone as soon as we draft a QB.

[Tony]

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Because my view is Dalton is likely better than Foles and that Foles will be gone as soon as we draft a QB.

Good luck with all that. 

[Jack Parkman]

45 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Foles can not be a bridge starter on a team that is trying to make the playoffs. Not win a superbowl...but make the playoffs.  Dalton can absolutely be a bridge starter on a team that contends for a playoff spot.  Nick Foles is a career BACKUP. He's good at that and can have a string of games where he plays at a top 10 level, but over a full season, he is a bottom 10 QB who was a significant downgrade from Trubisky (who is a bottom 10 QB).  

I should caveat - I have not paid any attention to an Andy Dalton game in 3 years - so it might be Andy Dalton's game has taken steps back due to injuries and/or father time and he actually is a back-up at this point and no different than Foles. I'm assuming that isn't the case and it was rather a year ago - no one was that interested in him because the market for a middle of the road QB just wasn't that high (teams were either invested in their young QB and/or more focused on drafting an alternative).  

With all due respect......Foles is better than Dalton. 

[Balta1701]

40 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

If Dalton is what you guys say - and massively worse than who he was 2-3 years ago - than you guys are 1000% right.  

Compared to his best years in Cindy, the last couple years his Int% has increased by about 66%, his TD% has dropped by 1/3, his yards per attempt last year was the worst of his career, and in 2019 it was as low as it was when he was a rookie. In fact, his stats the last 2-3 years look an awful lot like his rookie year stats.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I can’t believe I’m saying this, I rather have Trubisky back.