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hi8is

The Andrew Vaughn LF Thread

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Today... he caught a fly ball and showed off a noddle arm on a throw to second base.

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Posted (edited)

Rick Hahn and Tony La Russa: "So, you played outfield in little league, correct? And you haven't played above A ball. 

OK, so here's our brilliant plan. You are going to play left field on Opening Day and with a few Spring Training games to work the kinks out, and you're also expected to be a valuable hitter. Good luck and go get'em kid."

It's like doubling down on 16 in Vegas.

 

Edited by South Side Hit Men
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I’m not averse to it at all... and made the thread to follow along with this “experiment.”

Collin Hay is awesome, by the way.

You should check out a solo song of his called, I think... “I don’t know why” - he wrote it after his wife died.

One of the most chilling performances I’ve ever seen in person... and I’ve seen a LOT.

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9 minutes ago, hi8is said:

I’m not averse to it at all... and made the thread to follow along with this “experiment.”

Collin Hay is awesome, by the way.

You should check out a solo song of his called, I think... “I don’t know why” - he wrote it after his wife died.

One of the most chilling performances I’ve ever seen in person... and I’ve seen a LOT.

Yes, love Men at Work.

Should definitely have a lively conversation for as long as this lasts. La Russa's Carlton Fisk in Left Field plan lasted 31 games before Hawk rightly put his foot down and said enough is enough. Not sure if that number is too high for the under/over on this "experiment".

Just putting way to much on a 22 year old kid. it's hard enough to adjust to ML pitching straight from A ball. Add trying to learn a position on the fly with a significant risk of injury with no OF experience. Don't agree with the idea of getting cute with Hahn's pathetic roster depth and construction, stacked with seven players qualified to only field three positions (C 1B DH), and no OFers in the minors after years of tanking and drafting high. 

Suck it up, have Tony go into Jerry's office with the jaws of life to pry open Reinsdorf's wallet, or suck it up with the shitty roster depth and the limited actual OFers Hahn assembled until Engel returns, and then you have two platoon guys manning the corners at least until the trade deadline. You also better hope Adam Eaton, another player who doesn't know his physical limitations, can stay healthy for a good portion of the season. If this was Ricky Renteria's cockamamie plan, this board would go ape shit over it.

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6 hours ago, hi8is said:

Today... he caught a fly ball and showed off a noddle arm on a throw to second base.

A key question is going to have be this. Can he make EVERY play that any normal left fielder can make? If he can't, then this is a ridiculous experiment. Because this isn't a developmental league. After years of rebuilding it's time to win now. Anything short of a playoff spot will still be a failed season. The previous poster had it right. This is too much to ask of a 22 year old kid to not only have to adjust to major league pitching but also to learn an entirely new position. 

 

 

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Please tell me more about Andrew Vaughn.....in left

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Man, how pissed must Gavin Sheets be? Picks up an outfielder's glove after he sees he's super blocked at 1B (by heir-apparent Vaughn) and that we have no outfield depth, wants a chance to expand his game to crack the roster.

Opportunity comes and this is his shot! Nah, Sox give that to Vaughn too with literally zero experience out there.

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13 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

Man, how pissed must Gavin Sheets be? Picks up an outfielder's glove after he sees he's super blocked at 1B (by heir-apparent Vaughn) and that we have no outfield depth, wants a chance to expand his game to crack the roster.

Opportunity comes and this is his shot! Nah, Sox give that to Vaughn too with literally zero experience out there.

Sheets didn’t even get assigned to Schaumburg last year, he’s still got to prove himself with the bat.  Vaughn clearly flashed enough last year that they want his bat in the lineup somewhere.  None of this ideal, but alas with the way Collins has looked in camp it’s worth a shot.

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37 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sheets didn’t even get assigned to Schaumburg last year, he’s still got to prove himself with the bat.  Vaughn clearly flashed enough last year that they want his bat in the lineup somewhere.  None of this ideal, but alas with the way Collins has looked in camp it’s worth a shot.

"Worth a shot." Question still stands. Can he make EVERY play a normal left fielder will make? If not, this is a joke. Because this isn't a developmental league. Win now. Anything less than a playoff spot is a severe disappointment. Cripes, I'm mad. Of course the players association would never in a million years go for this, but I almost feel that Jimenez should be fined a years salary for this. 

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Just now, Soxsi75 said:

"Worth a shot." Question still stands. Can he make EVERY play a normal left fielder will make? If not, this is a joke. Because this isn't a developmental league. Win now. Anything less than a playoff spot is a severe disappointment. Cripes, I'm mad. Of course the players association would never in a million years go for this, but I almost feel that Jimenez should be fined a years salary for this. 

Eloy couldn't even make every play a normal left fielder could.. Chill.

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20 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Eloy couldn't even make every play a normal left fielder could.. Chill.

OK, fair enough. Maybe a better question might be, can he make all the routine plays that Eloy would have made? Because you're right, Eloy couldn't either. Only difference is, hopefully Vaughn won't make stupid decisions at the wall. 

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3 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

OK, fair enough. Maybe a better question might be, can he make all the routine plays that Eloy would have made? Because you're right, Eloy couldn't either. Only difference is, hopefully Vaughn won't make stupid decisions at the wall. 

Yes, I think Vaughn will be slower, and not take good routes.  HOWEVER, I don't think he will be as boneheaded.  And that can make all the difference in the world.  We only need one of them out there for 2 years.  

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3 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Yes, I think Vaughn will be slower, and not take good routes.  HOWEVER, I don't think he will be as boneheaded.  And that can make all the difference in the world.  We only need one of them out there for 2 years.  

Now see, your point about "not taking good routes" is what has me worried. If there's a situation where there's a couple of men on and there's a hard hit ball to left field and it's a play that all normal left fielders will make, even Eloy, but Vaughn misplays it and both those runners score and possibly cost us that game.......That's what I mean by can he make all the routine plays. If this happens then he shouldn't be out there. 

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1 minute ago, Soxsi75 said:

Now see, your point about "not taking good routes" is what has me worried. If there's a situation where there's a couple of men on and there's a hard hit ball to left field and it's a play that all normal left fielders will make, even Eloy, but Vaughn misplays it and both those runners score and possibly cost us that game.......That's what I mean by can he make all the routine plays. If this happens then he shouldn't be out there. 

Life isn’t perfect. You give an example of Vaughn in the field with runners on base and his he misplays a ball in LF. Yes, that may very well happen. But I’d rather have Vaughn up at the plate with two runners on base than any other realistic option the Sox have for LF. 
 

The Sox best hitter just went down for 5-6 months. There are VERY few teams that are going to have a replacement for a player of that caliber that doesn’t have some warts on them. It’s not a perfect situation, but in my opinion this makes the most sense. 

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4 minutes ago, Tony said:

Life isn’t perfect. You give an example of Vaughn in the field with runners on base and his he misplays a ball in LF. Yes, that may very well happen. But I’d rather have Vaughn up at the plate with two runners on base than any other realistic option the Sox have for LF. 
 

The Sox best hitter just went down for 5-6 months. There are VERY few teams that are going to have a replacement for a player of that caliber that doesn’t have some warts on them. It’s not a perfect situation, but in my opinion this makes the most sense. 

Well, unfortunately, I agree with every single thing you said.........thing is, we've had to put up with garbage baseball for years while we went through this rebuild, (last years COVID year not withstanding,) with promises for the future, future, future. Well, the future is now. Anything short of a playoff team this year is a severe disappointment. And Eloy and his idiotic decision has put that in serious jeopardy. So maybe I'll stick to my thought that Eloy should be fined a years salary for this stunt, (though of course I know that's unrealistic.)

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56 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

"Worth a shot." Question still stands. Can he make EVERY play a normal left fielder will make? If not, this is a joke. Because this isn't a developmental league. Win now. Anything less than a playoff spot is a severe disappointment. Cripes, I'm mad. Of course the players association would never in a million years go for this, but I almost feel that Jimenez should be fined a years salary for this. 

What are you suggesting exactly?  The reason the Sox are trying Vaughn out in LF is they think that him plus Collins at DH gives them a better chance to win than Leury in LF everyday and Vaughn at DH?

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3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What are you suggesting exactly?  The reason the Sox are trying Vaughn out in LF is they think that him plus Collins at DH gives them a better chance to win than Leury in LF everyday and Vaughn at DH?

To be honest, I guess I don't have one. Truthfully, no one does.  And it's a shame there has to be a suggestion. But one is warranted because of Eloy's beyond idiotic stunt. So I'll just quote myself I put in the previous post....thing is, we've had to put up with garbage baseball for years while we went through this rebuild, (last years COVID year not withstanding,) with promises for the future, future, future. Well, the future is now. Anything short of a playoff team this year is a severe disappointment. And Eloy and his idiotic decision has put that in serious jeopardy. So maybe I'll stick to my thought that Eloy should be fined a years salary for this stunt, (though of course I know that's unrealistic.)

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24 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

Well, unfortunately, I agree with every single thing you said.........thing is, we've had to put up with garbage baseball for years while we went through this rebuild, (last years COVID year not withstanding,) with promises for the future, future, future. Well, the future is now. Anything short of a playoff team this year is a severe disappointment. And Eloy and his idiotic decision has put that in serious jeopardy. So maybe I'll stick to my thought that Eloy should be fined a years salary for this stunt, (though of course I know that's unrealistic.)

I don't know how old you are, but based on your last 20 posts....you sound like an 8 year old who didn't get his way. 

Yes, Eloy shouldn't have done what he did. Yes, he put this team is a precarious position. But shit happens. Corey Crawford broke his foot at a concert. Bill Gramatica tore his ACL celebrating. Kendry Morales broke his leg jumping on home plate after hitting a grand slam. None of them make what Eloy did right, but shit happens. 

And everyone is in agreement if the Sox don't make the playoffs this year, with or without Eloy, it would be a massive disappointment. So....what are we going to do about it right now? The season hasn't even started yet. 

The moral of the story? 

5KXN.gif

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tony said:

Life isn’t perfect. You give an example of Vaughn in the field with runners on base and his he misplays a ball in LF. Yes, that may very well happen. But I’d rather have Vaughn up at the plate with two runners on base than any other realistic option the Sox have for LF. 
 

The Sox best hitter just went down for 5-6 months. There are VERY few teams that are going to have a replacement for a player of that caliber that doesn’t have some warts on them. It’s not a perfect situation, but in my opinion this makes the most sense. 

Except this isnt at all the scenario. 

It's the different between collins bat and Leury vs leury defense vs vaughn. Vaughn bat is in the lineup regardless. 

People always seem to make outfield out to be some easy position. Guy is slow footed and has never read major league fly balls. It's risky. Im ok with them trying it but it's embarrassing their lack of depth is already hurting them before the season even starts. Eloy got hurt because the sox asked him to do things defensively he's not capable of. There answer is to now put another player in the same exact position that got eloy hurt. And eloy isn't the sox best hitter.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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39 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What are you suggesting exactly?  The reason the Sox are trying Vaughn out in LF is they think that him plus Collins at DH gives them a better chance to win than Leury in LF everyday and Vaughn at DH?

I don't see how extra TB surrendered would match TB gained with Vaughn in LF and Collins DH.  Vaughn is slow, has no range, and a terrible arm.  Teams will be taking extra bases on him all the time.  Plus, his inexperience and hustle will lead to lots of chances for collisions with Robert.  They'll be in the same vicinity a lot.  All it takes is one.  Also, Vaughn's bat will likely be affected.  I can't believe that they'd actually go through with this.

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58 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

Now see, your point about "not taking good routes" is what has me worried. If there's a situation where there's a couple of men on and there's a hard hit ball to left field and it's a play that all normal left fielders will make, even Eloy, but Vaughn misplays it and both those runners score and possibly cost us that game.......That's what I mean by can he make all the routine plays. If this happens then he shouldn't be out there. 

Manny Ramirez was a terrible LF...from 2003-2007 averaging -1.7 dWAR.  For reference Eloy in 2019 was a -1.4.   Manny did NOT make every catch every LF should make...in spite of his terrible defense the Bsox managed to get to the playoffs in four of those five years and won two WS.   We are not doomed.   Vaughn played in LF frequently in Schaumburg last year. He's 23.  We aren't asking him to split them atom...and honestly with Robert in CF he catches everything anyway.   It is terrible that Eloy got hurt but every team goes through injuries...expect more...it's how we manage around them and I am intrigued by Vaughn LF/Collins DH mix way more than I am about a Leury Garcia LF/Vaugn DH.    

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Who would be considered our best AAA/AA outfield prospect?   Any options there?

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We are not doing this so we can get Collins bat in the lineup.  We are doing it so we can keep both Vaughn and Eloy long term. This isn't that hard to figure out

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3 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

We are not doing this so we can get Collins bat in the lineup.  We are doing it so we can keep both Vaughn and Eloy long term. This isn't that hard to figure out

I'm not sure I follow...are you saying this is the long term switch of Vaughn to LF and Eloy to DH?   I think this is really the thing that will make Collins our long term C.  He will prove to be such a valuable left handed bat at DH this year and a passable C that it will be penciled in as full time catcher by...2023?      

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16 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Manny Ramirez was a terrible LF...from 2003-2007 averaging -1.7 dWAR.  For reference Eloy in 2019 was a -1.4.   Manny did NOT make every catch every LF should make...in spite of his terrible defense the Bsox managed to get to the playoffs in four of those five years and won two WS.   We are not doomed.   Vaughn played in LF frequently in Schaumburg last year. He's 23.  We aren't asking him to split them atom...and honestly with Robert in CF he catches everything anyway.   It is terrible that Eloy got hurt but every team goes through injuries...expect more...it's how we manage around them and I am intrigued by Vaughn LF/Collins DH mix way more than I am about a Leury Garcia LF/Vaugn DH.    

Played in LF frequently in Schaumburg? What? At most I read he took "some reps" in LF. His primary work was at 1st base since he was a first baseman. He also took "some reps" at third base. He's not a third baseman.

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