White Sox were expected to sign Juan Soto

[caulfield12]

Cue the why do we keep trading veteran wasted salaries for international pool money thread as well...we felt guilty for Leury’s success so wanted to do the Rangers a favor in return?

Edited March 28, 2021 by caulfield12

[bmags]

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Cue the why do we keep trading veteran wasted salaries for international pool money thread as well...we felt guilty for Leury’s success so wanted to do the Rangers a favor in return?

Well for one this was before that cba went into effect.

[Y2Jimmy0]

7 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So, it turns out Soto was expecting to sign with the White Sox, paddy wanted him, but at the last minute the Nationals offered and the Sox lost out on him over 100-200k that the cheap group wouldn't pony up for Marcos guy.

This isn’t true lol. Sox offered him $1.4 million. They probably should’ve offered more initially but he took $1.5 million from Washington at a later time. There was no negotiating. Just unfortunate. The takeaway should be that Marco Paddy identifies talent 

6 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Had they signed/remained with the Sox, do you actually think that Tatis Jr and Soto would have developed into the players they are today? 

Serious question. 

Yes. They’re both tremendous and would’ve been anywhere. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

24 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This isn’t true lol. Sox offered him $1.4 million. They probably should’ve offered more initially but he took $1.5 million from Washington at a later time. There was no negotiating. Just unfortunate. The takeaway should be that Marco Paddy identifies talent 

Yes. They’re both tremendous and would’ve been anywhere. 

What's not true? They were outbid at the last minute for his services. I dont need you to tell me what the sox offered him, I posted the literal quote in this thread and you're merely regurgitating the article we all read. Must have missed where you stated any of this prior to the article released talking about it. 😏

When did I say they negotiated? They were outbid by 100k which I also said. Smh

Edited March 29, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, they absolutely would have. They were dominate by 18-19 in MLB. It was their talent that made them great not 6 months of organization development.

This.  Soto was also 16 when he signed and Jerry doesn't like spending on 16 yr. olds. Funny how they are going to pony up for Colas who will be 24 by the time he STARTS playing in the states. What a waste of Paddy's expertise.

[Y2Jimmy0]

54 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

What's not true? They were outbid at the last minute for his services. I dont need you to tell me what the sox offered him, I posted the literal quote in this thread and you're merely regurgitating the article we all read. Must have missed where you stated any of this prior to the article released talking about it. 😏

When did I say they negotiated? They were outbid by 100k which I also said. Smh

You said that the cheap group wouldn’t pony up for Marco’s guy. That’s nonsense 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

This.  Soto was also 16 when he signed and Jerry doesn't like spending on 16 yr. olds. Funny how they are going to pony up for Colas who will be 24 by the time he STARTS playing in the states. What a waste of Paddy's expertise.

Colas is 22 and won’t turn 23 until September.  He will be 23 most of next year.

[ChiSoxJon]

Paddy probably deserves some GM consideration, no? That'd be a big loss

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 3/28/2021 at 7:14 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Colas is 22 and won’t turn 23 until September.  He will be 23 most of next year.

Right 23, before he gets signed which will be January , 2022. So he'll be 23.5 by April when he starts playing . I wasn't off by much. The point was much older than Soto was and Colas missing a year at least of development much like Cespedes so evaluation is more difficult, have to adjust to the culture, shake off the rust, then start climbing the minor league ladder.

It's great the Sox are spending just not as excited by Cespedes and Colas as most are for those reasons. Rutherford will be 24 in May and most have already decided he's never going to be a quality MLB player, yet people talk like Cespedes or Colas could be starting for the Sox soon without ever having seen them play a single inning in the minors. Both Cespedes and Colas would have to make some serious progress in a short period of time to play in MLB within a year of 1st playing in the states.

Edited March 30, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Harry Chappas]

I wonder if the Cardinals board pisses, moans and complains that the cheap ass White Sox outbid them for Robert and Abreu.

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

I wonder if the Cardinals board pisses, moans and complains that the cheap ass White Sox outbid them for Robert and Abreu.

I thought the other team in on Abreu was the Rockies...? 

[reiks12]

Tatis and Soto on this team KILL ME

[fathom]

FWIW I remember reading Sox were close to signing Vlad Jr also

[caulfield12]

An oft forgotten addendum to the tale is the July 2 trade of prospects Chase De Jong and Tim Locastro to the Los Angeles Dodgers for international bonus pool slots totalling $1,071,300, a swap completed nearly simultaneously with Guerrero’s $3.9 million agreement.

While landing Guerrero wasn’t dependent on that deal, acquiring the extra spending slots under the old system reduced the penalty levied against the Blue Jays for blowing past their 2015 bonus pool allotment of $2,324,100.

As a result, the Blue Jays were able to sign right-hander Eric Pardinho, ranked as the club’s No. 4 prospect by Baseball America, plus shortstops Miguel Hiraldo (No. 10) and Leonardo Jimenez (No. 21), among others, during the 2017 signing period, one that they would have had to otherwise sit out.

Here’s how it went down...

 

Blame it on the Dodgers!!!

Of course, we'll get the "but where would he play?" argument with Moncada and Abreu/Vaughn.  Of course, we wouldn't have needed to draft Vaughn if we'd signed and developed Vladdy, Jr.

Also, the article mentions the Royals and Padres as being the two other teams "sniffing around."

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/side-deal-helped-blue-jays-sign-guerrero-jr/

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

41 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

I wonder if the Cardinals board pisses, moans and complains that the cheap ass White Sox outbid them for Robert and Abreu.

Those 2 players cost the Sox $118M and of course it's great we got them. The point is that Tatis and Soto would've been a combined total of less than $2.5M . For an organization that has had international funds to spend and a great talent evaluator to continually trade money away in that sector and  hesitant to sign high profile 16 yr. olds is /was shortsighted at best. . We all just want to win more. Maybe if we had the success of the Cardinals organization we might not be as grumpy and most of us are afraid the success of the  rebuild is caught in the middle of COVID and perhaps a CBA problem which has led to, as usual ,less spending and more Soxian ways that do not prioritize winning.

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Those 2 players cost the Sox $118M and of course it's great we got them. The point is that Tatis and Soto would've been a combined total of less than $2.5M . For an organization that has had international funds to spend and a great talent evaluator to continually trade money away in that sector and  hesitant to sign high profile 16 yr. olds is /was shortsighted at best. . We all just want to win more. Maybe if we had the success of the Cardinals organization we might not be as grumpy and most of us are afraid the success of the  rebuild is caught in the middle of COVID and perhaps a CBA problem which has led to, as usual ,less spending and more Soxian ways that do not prioritize winning.

There's been some obvious misses (at least so far) with Adolfo, Victor Diaz/Basabe and underestimating Jimenez's defensive shortcomings, but we've been pretty darned accurate ever since Alexei Ramirez.

The only one that really didn't work out (until now) was Viciedo.

Of course, progress in the DR, Puerto Rico, Central America and Venezuela has been pretty darned abysmal.

And we lost the inside track in Brazil that started with Wilder/Rienzo/Paulo Orlando/Anderson Gomes (of course, the Indians ended up with the right Gomes, YAN) back in the day.

 

But the point remains on those "moonshot" signings worth their weight in gold over time with the right evaluator.  Imagine our DR connection with Eloy, Vladdy, Jr., Tatis, Jr., and Soto working collectively as recruiters!!!

For every 500 Yogurt/Yolbert Sanchez's, there's going to be a Tatis/Guerrero/Soto.  But the odds have dramatically increased though in our favor due to the presence of Paddy.

Edited March 29, 2021 by caulfield12

[HOFHurt35]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

What's not true? They were outbid at the last minute for his services. I dont need you to tell me what the sox offered him, I posted the literal quote in this thread and you're merely regurgitating the article we all read. Must have missed where you stated any of this prior to the article released talking about it. 😏

When did I say they negotiated? They were outbid by 100k which I also said. Smh

You literally inferred that they lost the guy for being cheap.

There was never a negotiation. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

There's been some obvious misses (at least so far) with Adolfo, Victor Diaz/Basabe and underestimating Jimenez's defensive shortcomings, but we've been pretty darned accurate ever since Alexei Ramirez.

The only one that really didn't work out (until now) was Viciedo.

Of course, progress in the DR, Puerto Rico, Central America and Venezuela has been pretty darned abysmal.

And we lost the inside track in Brazil that started with Wilder/Rienzo/Paulo Orlando/Anderson Gomes (of course, the Indians ended up with the right Gomes, YAN) back in the day.

 

But the point remains on those "moonshot" signings worth their weight in gold over time with the right evaluator.  Imagine our DR connection with Eloy, Vladdy, Jr., Tatis, Jr., and Soto working collectively as recruiters!!!

For every 500 Yogurt/Yolbert Sanchez's, there's going to be a Tatis/Guerrero/Soto.  But the odds have dramatically increased though in our favor due to the presence of Paddy.

 When you consider guys like Robert and Abreu cost $118M a better allocation of resources is spending that 5 or 6M every year on the international youngsters when you have someone like Paddy doing the evaluating. Spending $6M a yr for 20 years is $120M . That's a lot of potential good players or superstars for the cost of Abreu and Robert when you have Paddy in charge. You're hurting Paddy's credibility signing these much older  players who before you know it are 25 with only 2 years in the minors to shake off the rust , get acclimated to a new culture and perform at a high level. It's basically the same thing as continually drafting college guys instead of sprinkling in more HS guys or corner bats instead of middle of the field bats.

Was Wilder naturally a crook or did he feel underpaid or was his hiring from the normal Sox way of rewarding the undeserving long time organization guy or without much thought attached to it ?

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 When you consider guys like Robert and Abreu cost $118M a better allocation of resources is spending that 5 or 6M every year on the international youngsters when you have someone like Paddy doing the evaluating. Spending $6M a yr for 20 years is $120M . That's a lot of potential good players or superstars for the cost of Abreu and Robert when you have Paddy in charge. You're hurting Paddy's credibility signing these much older  players who before you know it are 25 with only 2 years in the minors to shake off the rust , get acclimated to a new culture and perform at a high level. It's basically the same thing as continually drafting college guys instead of sprinkling in more HS guys or corner bats instead of middle of the field bats.

Was Wilder naturally a crook or did he feel underpaid or was his hiring from the normal Sox way of rewarding the undeserving long time organization guy or without much thought attached to it ?

He had an excellent reputation with the Brewers when he came over, and was considered a future GM in waiting.

I think he just got in over his head financing that gay nightclub in Phoenix that really caused the problem...as the amount of embezzling was only $440,000, spread out over 23 different players.  Perhaps, with the way it has always been business as usual in Latin America with buscones taking their cuts and double contracts for taxation purposes/income reporting, it became too tempting a graft?  Some have theorized Wilder felt KW would bail him out, that they were close (KW would look the other way, in theory) and intimated that minority front office execs had to watch each others' backs, but it turned out to be quite the opposite situation in the end.

 

https://www.redreporter.com/2006/2/3/18152/61361

Edited March 29, 2021 by caulfield12

[RagahRagah]

On 3/28/2021 at 3:12 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

Now this is a lineup worthy of multi championship discussion.

• Anderson SS
• Soto LF
• Abreu 1B
• Moncada 3B
• Jimenez DH
• Kelenic RF
• Robert CF
• Grandal (Or McCann) C
• Wong 2B

 

Hell, if we are gonna drown our sorrows and entertain "what could have been scenarios (which is awesome for The Show fantasy roster construction!), let's really just go all out.

 

• Tatis SS
• Soto LF
• Abreu 1B
• Anderson 2B
• Jimenez DH
• Robert CF
• Moncada 3B
• Grandal C
• Anyone, who TF cares RF   

 

Not only is that obviously fucking nuts but I'm not even sure that is the best composition; hell, you could probably shuffle it almost any way you want it and it would be insane.

Then,  If you consider the potential that Soto could have been brought up and extended the same way the rest of our core has via Hahn, then just imagine the possibility to still land Harper (fantasy scenario if our team actually had an owner who wanted to win) or even someone like Ozuna to plug in RF, which gives our DH more versatility to switch spots to rest the everyday RFer if needed during a pennant race and rely less on bench guys.

Man, it might take a while for this erection to go away.

Edited March 29, 2021 by RagahRagah

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Hell, if we are gonna drown our sorrows and entertain "what could have been scenarios (which is awesome for The Show fantasy roster construction!), let's really just go all out.

 

• Tatis SS
• Soto LF
• Abreu 1B
• Anderson 2B
• Jimenez DH
• Robert CF
• Moncada 3B
• Grandal C
• Anyone, who TF cares RF   

 

Not only is that obviously fucking nuts but I'm not even sure that is the best composition; hell, you could probably shuffle it almost any way you want it and it would be insane.

Then,  If you consider the potential that Soto could have been brought up and extended the same way the rest of our core has via Hahn, then just imagine the possibility to still land Harper (fantasy scenario if our team actually had an owner who wanted to win) or even someone like Ozuna to plug in RF, which gives our DH more versatility to switch spots to rest the everyday RFer if needed during a pennant race and rely less on bench guys.

Man, it might take a while for this erection to go away.

Or Machado at 3B and Moncada in RF...you’d basically be the baseball version of the Latin Harlem Globetrotters.

Outside of Acuna, you’d have Top 2 of 3 youngsters in the game...with Robert banging on the door.  Moncada’s 2019 potential, etc.  MVP caliber players in Anderson and Abreu.  Another MVP candidate in Machado. Top 3-5 catcher in Grandal.

Edited March 29, 2021 by caulfield12

[RagahRagah]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Or Machado at 3B and Moncada in RF...you’d basically be the baseball version of the Latin Harlem Globetrotters.

Hell, if you wanna entertain the idea of Bryant there as well. Go nuts! Hell, Eaton could still easily and happily be our starting RF with a lineup that insane.

[Harry Chappas]

if they have Tatis and Soto in the pipeline they probably dont pay for Robert.