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GREEDY

A Nick Madrigal Sized Sample

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Posted (edited)

When is it ok to start judging Madrigal? 👶

 

As advertised: Very aggressive approach at the plate. 

Not as advertised (or at least "hoped for"):  Everything else. 

 

 

He is 24 and has played at the highest of high levels since middle school.  Seemingly the last guy who might "need some time to get acclimated".  The defense has been bad and to my eye not necessarily the result of small sample size mistakes or bad breaks.  Nick appears hesitant, awkward and slower than I expected.  There are zero signs of the "hoped for" 10 HR power that might be necessary for him to be an above average 2B regardless of his batting average.


When you draft the polished college second basemen with the questionable ceiling at slot (6.5 million - huge money for the position)... you are definitely banking on instant impact.

 

 

 

Edited by GREEDY
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Judge him however you want, everyone is. Some feel it is justified, some feel like maybe we shouldn't bury this guy before he has an entire season under his belt.  

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Offensively I see nothing to suggest he’ll ever hit more than a couple HRs in a season.  I do think the rest of his game will improve over time.  He seems to be way too much in his own head and/or trying to do too much.  There is no chance he is this bad in the field and on the bases.  How much better he’ll be remains to be seen though.

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He always seems to have a worried, stressed look on his face.  Maybe that's just how he plays, but maybe he is indeed in his head.  I think he's a much better player than he's shown so far.  It'll be interesting (and aggravating at times) to watch him grow.

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I can only gather that he's really pressing and pressuring himself and he's playing tight.

He needs reassurance that he can fail and be okay.  Gordon Beckham had the same kind of self-pressure.

His own worst critic.

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4 minutes ago, knightni said:

I can only gather that he's really pressing and pressuring himself and he's playing tight.

He needs reassurance that he can fail and be okay.  Gordon Beckham had the same kind of self-pressure.

His own worst critic.

WON'T GET THAT HERE!

Seriously, I think he's absolutely in his own head. His issues so far don't strike me as being related to adjustment to MLB talent level: you don't just forget how to field or run the bases. He's pressing and I think he'll be ok. The biggest worry is that his mental makeup won't allow him to get through this, but that also seems doubtful given all his success at other levels.

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I'm wondering how the hell he got the following reputations:

1. Good defender

2. High BB IQ

3. Fast (this is the most baffling)

He clearly isn't very fast. I'm not sure how he got that reputation. Additionally, his lack of speed and small build further hurt his defensive ability. Is this dude ever going to have the range to play an above average 2nd base? This team needs it. 

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16 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

WON'T GET THAT HERE!

Believe it or not, he's not reading these posts so

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2 minutes ago, gusguyman said:

Believe it or not, he's not reading these posts so

A) It was a joke; B) you may well be wrong anyway. But otherwise good post

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49 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

When is it ok to start judging Madrigal? 👶

 

Mid-May.

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In any interview I have heard with him, Madrigal sounds like a very confident guy.  But he sure does not seem to be playing with any confidence.

His on base abilities can be awfully valuable at the bottom of the lineup turning it over to Timmy, etc to drive him in.  I think he will get it going and get that average up.  Madrigal will never be the guy with the tremendous exit velocities but if he makes contact and hits it where they aint that will be tremendously annoying to opposing pitching staffs.  I do like that he rarely strikes out.

His defense is awfully puzzling though.  He seems to be playing scared and that is not a good thing.

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I believe someone mentioned it last night, but it was an interesting thought. 

Let's say the college career of Nick Madrigal stayed totally the same, but instead of being drafted in the 1st round, he was drafted in the 7th round by the White Sox. All his college stats look identical, and his minor league career also was identical to what he produced. Only difference is he was drafted in the 7th round. 

How do we view Madrigal if that was the case? Are fans as forgiving of his miscues so far? Are fans more understanding of his struggles because he was a 7th round pick, and not the 4th overall selection? Has Madrigal been given a bigger rope by the front office because he was a 1st round pick? 

I'm not totally sure on the answers, but I think they are interesting to think about. 

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He has that look of a guy that needs to get some MLB groupies and help him relax. Seriously though, he looks so stressed

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10 minutes ago, Tony said:

I believe someone mentioned it last night, but it was an interesting thought. 

Let's say the college career of Nick Madrigal stayed totally the same, but instead of being drafted in the 1st round, he was drafted in the 7th round by the White Sox. All his college stats look identical, and his minor league career also was identical to what he produced. Only difference is he was drafted in the 7th round. 

How do we view Madrigal if that was the case? Are fans as forgiving of his miscues so far? Are fans more understanding of his struggles because he was a 7th round pick, and not the 4th overall selection? Has Madrigal been given a bigger rope by the front office because he was a 1st round pick? 

I'm not totally sure on the answers, but I think they are interesting to think about. 

I think there would be more patience but also much more anger that they went into the season with him starting when there were two cheap starters at 2b available

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49 minutes ago, knightni said:

I can only gather that he's really pressing and pressuring himself and he's playing tight.

He needs reassurance that he can fail and be okay.  Gordon Beckham had the same kind of self-pressure.

His own worst critic.

After listening to Beckham on Garfein's podcast, Beckham might be someone Madrigal should try talking to about not being hard on yourself, i.e. learn from Gordon's mistakes.

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Nick Madrigal will be fine. I am sorry he isn’t a super star 90 homer guy already 

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21 minutes ago, Tony said:

I believe someone mentioned it last night, but it was an interesting thought. 

Let's say the college career of Nick Madrigal stayed totally the same, but instead of being drafted in the 1st round, he was drafted in the 7th round by the White Sox. All his college stats look identical, and his minor league career also was identical to what he produced. Only difference is he was drafted in the 7th round. 

How do we view Madrigal if that was the case? Are fans as forgiving of his miscues so far? Are fans more understanding of his struggles because he was a 7th round pick, and not the 4th overall selection? Has Madrigal been given a bigger rope by the front office because he was a 1st round pick? 

I'm not totally sure on the answers, but I think they are interesting to think about. 

Then we’re comparing him to someone like Chris Getz...and not expecting anything more than a 675-700 ops.

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9 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

Nick Madrigal will be fine. I am sorry he isn’t a super star 90 homer guy already 

You don't know that

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Is 44th percentile in sprint speed as advertised? I mean the 6th percentile hard hit% is but posting a below average sprint speed? What happened to that 55/60 grade speed? Admittedly it's early but nothing is trending in the right direction for him.

image.png

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Kalapse said:

Is 44th percentile in sprint speed as advertised? I mean the 6th percentile hard hit% is but posting a below average sprint speed? What happened to that 55/60 grade speed? Admittedly it's early but nothing is trending in the right direction for him.

image.png

Ugh, he’s just not physically strong enough to play at this level.  I also wonder if their efforts to have him gain weight have hurt his speed even more.

Edited by fathom

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Play him regularly until May 9. If it’s bad, send him to Charlotte. 

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Posted (edited)

Someone should get on the horn with his former Oregon State manager (pretty sure he’s now retired or close to it) and bring him in as a consultant or at least ask for his assistance in diagnosing the various mental issues fielding and baserunning-wise.

Trying too hard to impress teammates or prove himself?  Justifying that high selection and massive bonus?

Moved too quickly up the MiLB ladder?

 

Feels like one of those Yogi Berra quotes...”Baseball is 90 per cent mental. The other half is physical." 
 

I mean, are Mercedes, Akil Baddoo, and Tyler Naquin suddenly HoF type players in less than a week?

Edited by caulfield12
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14 minutes ago, Kalapse said:

Is 44th percentile in sprint speed as advertised? I mean the 6th percentile hard hit% is but posting a below average sprint speed? What happened to that 55/60 grade speed? Admittedly it's early but nothing is trending in the right direction for him.

Longenhagen had him as a 70 runner.  70. And he claims to have watched him live. The hell was he lookin at.  

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22 minutes ago, Kalapse said:

Is 44th percentile in sprint speed as advertised? I mean the 6th percentile hard hit% is but posting a below average sprint speed? What happened to that 55/60 grade speed? Admittedly it's early but nothing is trending in the right direction for him.

image.png

To be fair he was 77% for sprint speed last year, so I’d argue this is a function of sample size.

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