The Yermin-Vaughn-Abreu Conundrum

[tray]

 Beautiful night for baseball.. shitty night to read  about Burgur on the White Sox site.....Burgur, another player who profiles as a DH ....just the kind of organizational depth we don't need to even read about now.

 

 

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, tray said:

 Beautiful night for baseball.. shitty night to read  about Burgur on the White Sox site.....Burgur, another player who profiles as a DH ....just the kind of organizational depth we don't need to even read about now.

 

 

Yeah but we might need to trade him, Sheets, Adolfo, Rutherford, etc., for relief help as the season goes on.

Nice insurance to have if he can put his career back together.

Nobody would have predicted Yermin Mercedes would be our most important hitter the first month.

[gusguyman]

23 hours ago, elrockinMT said:

I don’t think Vaughn’s going anywhere. He is still being groomed to take over at 1B and in the meantime can DH, play the OF and fill in for Abreu.  Players like Hamilton and Leury will go before Vaughn,  who is still learning 

At this point, my meatball take is that I'd rather try to teach Eloy to play 1B and leave Vaughn in the OF. No clue if that is feasible for Eloy but at least at 6'4" he would be a big target.

[chitownsportsfan]

I honestly wonder if Eloy can even play a crumulent 1B.  As Vaughn has showed, Eloy isn't just clumsy for a MLB athlete, he might be clumsy by everyday bloke standards.  Like, LF isn't that hard for anybody capable of making MLB and Eloy made it look like he was playing with one eye closed and a resistance band between his legs.

[ron883]

Still no conundrum huh? I see a big time log jam when Eloy returns. Vaughn will have to play RF next year, or Abreu will have to go. 

[South Side Hit Men]

Nope, not at all. Still one short under contract for 2022 for a solid 4 OF tandem. Top teams have more solid players than positions.

• Eloy/Yermin? DH
• Abreu 1B
• Robert CF
• Engel/Vaughn/Eloy Corners

Waiting for Cespedes, if Eaton is healthy and producing there's a chance they pick up his second year option. I'd prefer Eloy never play OF, but that may depend on Yermin's ability to continue to rake throughout the season, and continue through inevitable pitcher adjustments once teams have more video to review.

Edited April 30, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[joejoedairy]

2 hours ago, ron883 said:

Still no conundrum huh? I see a big time log jam when Eloy returns. Vaughn will have to play RF next year, or Abreu will have to go. 

Having a lot of good players is a good thing

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, joejoedairy said:

Having a lot of good players is a good thing

Not to the Sox . Having too many good players means they can trade one for cheap young starting pitching.

Rodon, no idea how long this version of him lasts but probably gone next year. Keuchel not getting younger, Lynn gone after this year most likely. Cease has to prove he can be consistently good.

Kopech coming but not there.

Crochet a long way from being a starting pitcher so doesn't even make sense to look ahead with him. Stay healthy and we'll see.

Giolito's the rock but starting to show a few cracks but he'll be fine.

Sox can't keep on expecting the minors to fill pitching holes.  No Wheeler , no Gallen , no Burnes, no Woodruff, no Darvish , no Snell.

["The Kids Can Play"]

On 4/8/2021 at 10:37 PM, ron883 said:

Sooo, it appears that Yermin is legitimate. "But Ron, it's too early to declare Yermin legitimate." Wrong. I've been on the Yermin bandwagon as long as anybody. I was one of the first to identify his talents. He is here to stay. He has a great approach, he shortens his swing with 2 strikes but still crushes the ball, and he has a fast bat. The dude is going to stay. 

When Eloy comes back, there will be a bit if a logjam. Assuming Eloy is back next year, what do the Sox do? Abreu will be under contract for another year, and likely will get resigned. Do the Sox use Vaughn as a trade chip? They could attempt to trot out Eloy-Robert-Vaughn in the OF. The lineup would be absolutely ridiculous, but the defense would suffer. Imagine this lineup though...

Timmy

Moncada

Abreu

Eloy

Vaughn

Yermin

Grandal/Collins

Robert

Madrigal

Obviously you can change it around. Very right handed heavy, but lefties would get absolutely demolished. Maybe the Sox flip Vaughn I'm a trade for a lefty OF or pitcher? Who knows. Ideas?

Let's assume hypothetically Mercedes and Vaughn have great rookie years for argument's sake. Eloy is an obvious starter next year. Then to solve the dilemma, why can't they work daily with Mercedes in the off season to refine his catching skills to be a starter. However worst case Yermin can't catch...so be it, then Yermin to DH and Vaughn and Eloy in the outfield with Robert. It might be a weak left and right outfield, but the hitting power and potential is pretty damn scary. Plus Robert is a glove glove CF who covers more ground than most outfielders and could make up some of the slack/weakness for the other two. 

[Dominikk85]

I don't like that Jose and yermin never get a full day off. 

Not saying they should sit a lot especially the way yermin has been hitting but if each of them sits 2 to 3 times a month that would open up some more playing time for Vaughn at first and DH. 

I really would like Vaughn to play at least 2 to 3 times a month at first as that is the position of his future. 

I also think he should play about 2 out of 3 games. It is ok to sit him against tough righties (like today against Bieber for example who has pinpoint command and can exploit Vaughns "hole" in the outer third of the zone) but he shouldn't sit twice in a row or go on off (would rather see  on-on-off) 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Dominikk85

[Bob Sacamano]

I never got to see Yermin catch in Spring Training...how bad was it? I assume pretty terrible if he isn't even considered to get at bats there.

[Jack Parkman]

3 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

I don't like that Jose and yermin never get a full day off. 

Not saying they should sit a lot especially the way yermin has been hitting but if each of them sits 2 to 3 times a month that would open up some more playing time for Vaughn at first and DH. 

I really would like Vaughn to play at least 2 to 3 times a month at first as that is the position of his future. 

I also think he should play about 2 out of 3 games. It is ok to sit him against tough righties (like today against Bieber for example who has pinpoint command and can exploit Vaughns "hole" in the outer third of the zone) but he shouldn't sit twice in a row or go on off (would rather see  on-on-off) 

Vaughn will be a 1B eventually but he should be able to play LF until his late 20s. 

[JuliusO1274]

People seem to exaggerate how bad Eloy is based on some occasional very bad looking plays. He is not good but the vast majority of the games he does fine and catches the balls hit towards him. Removing him from LF for DH significantly decreases our offensive potential. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by JuliusO1274

[ron883]

1 minute ago, JuliusO1274 said:

People seem to exaggerate how bad Eloy is based on some occasional very bad looking plays. He is not good but the vast majority of the games he does fine and catches the balls hit towards him. Removing him from LF for DH significantly decreases our offensive potential because you are unlikely to find a LF replacement who can match his offense. With Eloy in LF you can get elite offense from LF and DH. Just let Vaughn play RF, we will score so many runs it won't matter we don't have great outfield defense. 

I'm hoping after this injury/embarrassment, Eloy takes the criticisms to his defense personally. Hoping he comes back and puts some serious fielding work in. 

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, JuliusO1274 said:

People seem to exaggerate how bad Eloy is based on some occasional very bad looking plays. He is not good but the vast majority of the games he does fine and catches the balls hit towards him. Removing him from LF for DH significantly decreases our offensive potential. 

Him getting constantly hurt decreases our offensive potential more than anything.  

[Dominikk85]

41 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Vaughn will be a 1B eventually but he should be able to play LF until his late 20s. 

I'm not sure really. He is looking quite good there and seems to have good instincts and doesn't make any mistakes there. 

On the other hand there isn't really a precedent for a guy with his sprint speed to be even acceptable in LF. 

 

I'm not sure what is going on here, does he have exceptional routes and instincts to compensate for his very slow speed or was he just getting Lucky that balls are hit right at him or way out of his range and not borderline ones?

If you look at statcast it looks a bit like this, he is 100% on 1 and 2 star plays but didn't have any chances for 3, 4 and 5 star plays so far. 

I mean it is good that he doesn't make  mistakes and doesn't drop routine fly balls but a couple 3 and 4 star play chances he doesn't make could make his defensive stats look ugly really fast.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Dominikk85

[joejoesox]

Abreu needs to be put on the IL, unless TLR has the balls to sit his ass for 2-3 days

[hi8is]

The Yermin-Vaughn-Abreu-Garcia conundrum. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

I'm not sure really. He is looking quite good there and seems to have good instincts and doesn't make any mistakes there. 

On the other hand there isn't really a precedent for a guy with his sprint speed to be even acceptable in LF. 

 

I'm not sure what is going on here, does he have exceptional routes and instincts to compensate for his very slow speed or was he just getting Lucky that balls are hit right at him or way out of his range and not borderline ones?

If you look at statcast it looks a bit like this, he is 100% on 1 and 2 star plays but didn't have any chances for 3, 4 and 5 star plays so far. 

I mean it is good that he doesn't make  mistakes and doesn't drop routine fly balls but a couple 3 and 4 star play chances he doesn't make could make his defensive stats look ugly really fast.

This is what I have been saying about those who say he passes the eye test. As you said he just hasn't had a lot of tough plays to make so far and hardly any towards the line. Even mediocre OF'er should routinely catch the 3 star chances. It's those 4 and 5 star chances that determine if you are outstanding and his speed just won't get him to get to those high level chances. Eloy gets some of the worst jumps in the majors as an OFer but once he gets going he has decent speed.

[Dominikk85]

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

This is what I have been saying about those who say he passes the eye test. As you said he just hasn't had a lot of tough plays to make so far and hardly any towards the line. Even mediocre OF'er should routinely catch the 3 star chances. It's those 4 and 5 star chances that determine if you are outstanding and his speed just won't get him to get to those high level chances. Eloy gets some of the worst jumps in the majors as an OFer but once he gets going he has decent speed.

Yes. Also looking at Eloy he also was 9 out of 10 on 1 and 2 star plays (missed one 2 star) last year, his stats were bad due to his 3 to 5 star plays (0% made on 3 and 4 star and 12.5 on 5 star). 

Vaughn simply didn't have those plays yet so we can't really say if he does better. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Dominikk85

[Bob Sacamano]

I still feel like they need to give Jose a couple games off in a row. He's been brutal. Would 2 games when you don't have a DH make that easier and just go with Yermin (or Vaughn) at 1B in Cincy?

[kitekrazy]

This organization seems to have a bad habit of drafting or getting younger players that are not good at catching a baseball.  They also can't seem to make that improvement in players.  

[ron883]

Who moves to RF, Eloy or Vaughn?

[beautox]

28 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Who moves to RF, Eloy or Vaughn?

Vaughn, hes got the arm for 3B and he looks above average in the outfield.

Edited May 12, 2021 by beautox

[YourWhatHurts]

I wonder what would be worse defensively, Eloy and Vaughn in the corners with Robert between them or Carlos Lee-Everett-Magglio?  Robert makes up a lot ground but the two guys flanking him I definitely believe would be worse than Lee and Magglio and by quite a bit.