Madrigal.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

22 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

It was one of the a carnival show(s). The Horizon refunded the tickets, at least for the date I worked the show. Perhaps there were multiple dates/years, but the one I worked the show was ultimately cancelled after we let in the few folks with tickets. Got paid to go home early, but would have liked to have seen the show as well. 

Two years later, there was pandemonium, but no ticket refunds, when the Horizon hosted a closed circuit broadcast of the Tyson vs. Spinks fight. Tyson won by knockout 91 seconds into the first round. Many fans were still coming in (skipping the undercard) and were markedly pissed off that they spent good money yet missed the fight. Those who did see it didn't see much either.

 

An old guy I knew when I was a kid used to tell us of the time Joe Louis knocked out King Levinsky in the first round at Comiskey Park back in 1935.  He said he was leaving the stadium and people were still coming in, not knowing the fight was already over.

[Greg Hibbard]

Pretty hilarious how people alternately bump this thread to “prove their point” either way  every 50 or so at bats 

he has not yet hit a benchmark that is a meaningful sample size either way, folks

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Greg Hibbard said:

Pretty hilarious how people alternately bump this thread to “prove their point” either way  every 50 or so at bats 

he has not yet hit a benchmark that is a meaningful sample size either way, folks

Half of a season is a mile stone worth looking at.

[Jerksticks]

Madrigal is incredible.  One of the highest actually-approachable ceilings I’ve ever seen.  
 

It seems like once he starts learning the pitchers, a .400 OBP is going to be an absolute layup for him.  I bet we see some .450 OBP+ seasons for him.  I’d love to see a .500

One of the highest ceilings I’ve ever seen in a prospect

["The Kids Can Play"]

On 4/14/2021 at 5:49 PM, Greydawgfan1 said:

Dudes here to stay. They aren’t going to drop him. Especially for a super utility guy who has never made an opening roster. Some of you guys should just accept it. 

Totally agree. I cant believe the people here always finding faults with him. Only one 2nd baseman hitting for a higher BA in MLB. Hitting .318 over last two seasons. 

["The Kids Can Play"]

21 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Pretty hilarious how people alternately bump this thread to “prove their point” either way  every 50 or so at bats 

he has not yet hit a benchmark that is a meaningful sample size either way, folks

Actually it's not hilarious at all, its called being optimistic and being a Sox fan. It's called looking at facts and the history of White Sox 2nd basemen in the last 30 years. Obviously you are in the negative contrarian club of wishing Madrigal fails to prove a point he is overrated apparently. 

[caulfield12]

34 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Madrigal is incredible.  One of the highest actually-approachable ceilings I’ve ever seen.  
 

It seems like once he starts learning the pitchers, a .400 OBP is going to be an absolute layup for him.  I bet we see some .450 OBP+ seasons for him.  I’d love to see a .500

One of the highest ceilings I’ve ever seen in a prospect

Let me guess, you have a Panama hat and take radar readings behind the plate at Dodgers Stadium?  You can't be Jerry Krause... 

Edited June 8, 2021 by caulfield12

[Greg Hibbard]

1 hour ago, "The Kids Can Play" said:

Actually it's not hilarious at all, its called being optimistic and being a Sox fan. It's called looking at facts and the history of White Sox 2nd basemen in the last 30 years. Obviously you are in the negative contrarian club of wishing Madrigal fails to prove a point he is overrated apparently. 

Nope, not at all. I drafted Madrigal in my fantasy league and have started him from day one. I would love for him to succeed.

I thought I was pretty clear, but apparently I was not:  I’m on the side of “this sample size is too small to judge.” I don’t understand why everyone is rushing to conclusions. 

Either way. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Greg Hibbard

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

11 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Nope, not at all. I drafted Madrigal in my fantasy league and have started him from day one. I would love for him to succeed.

I thought I was pretty clear, but apparently I was not:  I’m on the side of “this sample size is too small to judge.” I don’t understand why everyone is rushing to conclusions. 

Either way. 

Please make sure you PM all of us when we are allowed to update the thread and further discussion.

Thanks in advance.

[Greg Hibbard]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Please make sure you PM all of us when we are allowed to update the thread and further discussion.

Thanks in advance.

I don’t know what your problem is with me. I’m not against discussion on Madrigal. I’m not against opinions on Madrigal. I think it’s silly to say he’s a bona fide major leaguer or not this many plate appearances into his career and a lot of folks seem eager to do it. I guess I keep an eye out for you to jump down my throat the next time I make a casual observation. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Greg Hibbard

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I don’t know what your problem is with me. I’m not against discussion on Madrigal. I’m not against opinions on Madrigal. I think it’s silly to say he’s a bona fide major leaguer or not this many plate appearances into his career and a lot of folks seem eager to do it. I guess I keep an eye out for you to jump down my throat the next time I make a casual observation. 

I have no problem with you, apologies if you think otherwise. Just busting your balls. I dont even disagree with your premise but what enjoyment is a forum if not for a little nose rubbing. 

[caulfield12]

43 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I have no problem with you, apologies if you think otherwise. Just busting your balls. I dont even disagree with your premise but what enjoyment is a forum if not for a little nose rubbing. 

See draft debate about Bohm/Kelenic/Madrigal....doesn't mean Kelenic is doomed to be the next Jeremy Reed, just interesting to speculate about.  

So let's start the Wander Franco and Adley Rutschman threads, haha.

[BFirebird]

I definitely wouldn't bury Kelenic.  Vlad Jr. underwhelmed for 1.5 years and then it just clicked this year to an absolute monster beginning of the season.  Madrigal has improved defensively and on the basepaths but he definitely is not as fast as I thought he was advertised to be.  I also don't see how he was a SS at one point in college...he is arm is barely passable at 2B.  All that being said he has definitely turned it around on defense and a smarter baserunner.  I like the adjustment he made at the plate...it appears to allow him to have a little more power and be less slappy (more line drives).

If he continues to make these adjustments and get better I think he could be a very valuable piece to a winning team because he can do something (extreme contact) that a lot of guys in MLB struggle with and offers a different dimension to score in other ways besides home runs.  When Sox get Eloy/Robert back for more home runs having guys like Madrigal and TA7 can make them a more consistent offense and not rely on just home runs or just small ball...they can do both.  I think that is important in tight, close games.

[tray]

I disagree with those who decry bunting and small ball at every turn. They are the same folks that have a hard time accepting Madrigal's game.

Baseball is the same game it always was. You play to win by one run, any way you can get it.

Edited June 8, 2021 by tray

[tray]

1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I think it’s silly to say he’s a bona fide major leaguer or not this many plate appearances into his career

Unless you have not watched Sox games this season, that statement comes off as being quite incredulous.

[South Side Hit Men]

15 minutes ago, tray said:

I disagree with those who decry bunting and small ball at every turn. They are the same folks that have a hard time accepting Madrigal's game.

Baseball is the same game it always was. You play to win by one run, any way you can get it.

Actually, it’s the complete opposite. Nick Madrigal attempts to reach via hits, has zero SHs. He would be less valuable if he made intentional outs, even more so since he hits in front of the top of the lineup.

The statistics have proven this is the optimal strategy for decades. It’s a reason 21st century managers pass on Tony’s “strategery”, and why no professionally managed organization has been clamoring for La Russia’s services for a decade. Same reason people don’t consult with their veterinarians for baseball statistical analysis. 

[ron883]

Madrigal's floor is identical to his ceiling. Never seen a player like him.

[ron883]

4 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Madrigal is incredible.  One of the highest actually-approachable ceilings I’ve ever seen.  
 

It seems like once he starts learning the pitchers, a .400 OBP is going to be an absolute layup for him.  I bet we see some .450 OBP+ seasons for him.  I’d love to see a .500

One of the highest ceilings I’ve ever seen in a prospect

He's the first prospect I can think of who's ceiling is absolutely identical to his floor. It's remarkable. 

[Chisoxfn]

6 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I'm waiting for him to become the all time White Sox leader in hits among players named Nick/Nicky/Nicholas first.

(All time White Sox hit rank) / Player / Hits

1. (333) Nicky Delmonico 114
2. (342) Nick Swisher 109 - "I hate Nick Swisher with my heart." - Ozzie Guillen 8/5/2020
3. (373) Nick Madrigal 94
4. (400) Nick Altrock 84 - Played for the 1906 World Championship Team

 

Lol at Ozzie. 

[tray]

49 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Actually, it’s the complete opposite. Nick Madrigal attempts to reach via hits, has zero SHs. He would be less valuable if he made intentional outs, even more so since he hits in front of the top of the lineup.

The statistics have proven this is the optimal strategy for decades. It’s a reason 21st century managers pass on Tony’s “strategery”, and why no professionally managed organization has been clamoring for La Russia’s services for a decade. Same reason people don’t consult with their veterinarians for baseball statistical analysis. 

You  conflate bunts and small ball which arguably is part of the same strategy and is debatable.  but then you return to your apoplectic criticism of Tony LaRussa and the supposedly unprofessional White Sox organization.  When is enough enough? Give that a rest maybe?

Like Ozzie Guillen, I am glad that Jerry Reinsdorf did not hire AJ HInch who was almost banned for life from baseball for cheating, and IMO should have been.

Hinch is on probation for the  rest of his career according to the Commissioner.

" The investigation revealed that Hinch did not approve of the players using a replay monitor to decode signs, and even went as far as to wreck the monitor on at least two occasions.   However, he admitted that he did not stop the practice or explicitly let it be known that he disapproved of it.   Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred harshly criticized Hinch for not doing more to stop the scheme. According to Manfred, the manager is responsible for "ensuring that the players both understand the rules and adhere to them," and therefore there was "no justification for Hinch's failure to act." If Hinch commits further "material violations" of baseball rules, he will be permanently banned from baseball. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._J._Hinch#cite_note-12

 

 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

31 minutes ago, tray said:

You  conflate bunts and small ball which arguably is part of the same strategy and is debatable.  but then you return to your apoplectic criticism of Tony LaRussa and the supposedly unprofessional White Sox organization.  When is enough enough? Give that a rest maybe?

Like Ozzie Guillen, I am glad that Jerry Reinsdorf did not hire AJ HInch who was almost banned for life from baseball for cheating, and IMO should have been.

Hinch is on probation for the  rest of his career according to the Commissioner.

" The investigation revealed that Hinch did not approve of the players using a replay monitor to decode signs, and even went as far as to wreck the monitor on at least two occasions.   However, he admitted that he did not stop the practice or explicitly let it be known that he disapproved of it.   Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred harshly criticized Hinch for not doing more to stop the scheme. According to Manfred, the manager is responsible for "ensuring that the players both understand the rules and adhere to them," and therefore there was "no justification for Hinch's failure to act." If Hinch commits further "material violations" of baseball rules, he will be permanently banned from baseball. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._J._Hinch#cite_note-12

The fish rots at the top, JR the only person with fingerprints on this disgraceful hire. In terms of "cheating", funny how Tony's only previous success came via steroids. Similar to the sanctimonious John Wooden's pyramid of success built on the millions handed out by Sam Gilbert. He was completely owned by the Dodgers and Reds, despite far greater talent. Pitched to the only hitter the Dodgers had and blew Game 1 and the series. Couldn't use a phone correctly the last playoff series he managed, costing them a game.

Tony trashed legitimate HOFers like Ozzie Smith, trashed Yermin Mercedes for hitting a home run, was perfectly fine the Twins threw at his his own player. Perfectly fine with defending and giving a crony coaching job to one of all time cheaters, Mark McGwire. Tony's bullshit response to Jack McDowell's acquisition that Tony cheated in his first stint here as well as his traveling roids show in Oakland and Saint Louis.

Bunting isn't the only source of Tony's intentional outs. His asinine hit and run attempts, Yermin, Yoan and others "caught stealing" because of Tony's "gut", in front of  three true outcome Grandal. Tony's asinine bullpen management, Tony selecting Liam Hendriks as his designated runner in the tenth. The fact that team leaders like Tim Anderson and Lance Lynn openly called out Tony's bullshit and said they ignore the old fool. if the Sox do anything in the postseason before he's finally gone, it will be in spite of Tony La Russa, not because of him.

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[reiks12]

4 hours ago, ron883 said:

Madrigal's floor is identical to his ceiling. Never seen a player like him.

thats a very interesting take and i cant stop thinking about it now

[Kyyle23]

7 hours ago, tray said:

I disagree with those who decry bunting and small ball at every turn. They are the same folks that have a hard time accepting Madrigal's game.

Baseball is the same game it always was. You play to win by one run, any way you can get it.

As always with your posts, poorly informed and factually incorrect 

[Bob Sacamano]

8 hours ago, tray said:

I disagree with those who decry bunting and small ball at every turn. They are the same folks that have a hard time accepting Madrigal's game.

Baseball is the same game it always was. You play to win by one run, any way you can get it.

In a time where ks are up and seem to increase every year, giving up outs is dumb.

[SCCWS]

3 hours ago, reiks12 said:

thats a very interesting take and i cant stop thinking about it now

I think Madrigal could and should improve his defense with more experience.  So there may be some  gap between floor and ceiling