Madrigal.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, fathom said:

That triple is 100 pct what he needs to be able to do to keep the outfield positioning honest. Same with the walkoff hit over Gallo’s head

Exactly what I said in my post 12 hrs. ago. It's also what I have been saying for  months, just find the gaps and corners , get some doubles and triples and he will be fine. Last year with the weak shoulder for most of his games we didn't see that.

[hi8is]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Exactly what I said in my post 12 hrs. ago. It's also what I have been saying for  months, just find the gaps and corners , get some doubles and triples and he will be fine. Last year with the weak shoulder for most of his games we didn't see that.

Isn’t it possible also that he still is not at full strength?

In the limited college games I saw, he had more pop.

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Exactly what I said in my post 12 hrs. ago. It's also what I have been saying for  months, just find the gaps and corners , get some doubles and triples and he will be fine. Last year with the weak shoulder for most of his games we didn't see that.

Crap, people are going to know you’re my burner account now.

[fathom]

Just now, hi8is said:

Isn’t it possible also that he still is not at full strength?

In the limited college games I saw, he had more pop.

Aluminum bat makes a gigantic difference

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

Isn’t it possible also that he still is not at full strength?

In the limited college games I saw, he had more pop.

I'd say it is possible but he is definitely stronger than last yr. just going off his ISO increase. (SSS  of course but encouraging)

[hi8is]

24 minutes ago, fathom said:

Aluminum bat makes a gigantic difference

Someone call George Brett for him.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

On 4/22/2021 at 8:29 AM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Old Prospector: How do you feel about Nick Madrigal’s long-term potential his unusual skill set? What about Luis Arraez?

Kevin Goldstein: I really struggle with Madrigal and think he’s quite overrated by most prospect folks. He’s hitting .300 right now (which is real) and his OPS is just 737. Feels like he  need to hit .330 to get to .800 and he’s just such an empty average hitter. Unique player, but not as valuable as some might think.

So now that Kevin Goldstein has already written an article stating that Nick Madrigal is "good" despite this quoted text from Harold, how long until Harold admits that Madirgal is good?

Soon: +100000
Never: -1000000

[hi8is]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Never: -1000000

 

[Greg Hibbard]

48 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Luke Appling and Nelson Fox are both in the Hall of Fame with Madrigal's skill set.  His ceiling will satisfy my definition of "great."

I understand making these comparisons, but do you think Madrigal has the potential to win the Gold Glove multiple times as well as an MVP like Fox did? Do you think Nick can walk 87 times per 162 games or hit 45 career homers like Appling did? Because those are parts of those players skills sets, and part of the high ceilings they enjoyed during peak years. 

Yes, both are high batting average/low power players, but both had so many other aspects of their game that made them hall of famers, and Nick hasn’t demonstrated that level of ceiling. I can’t see him ever getting to 5 or 6 or 7 WAR in a single season - can you? I could see him putting up 3-4 consistently, though, if he continues to play at his best. 

[Blackout Friday]

His bat should be fine. The lack of pop limits his upside, which isn’t really debatable, but doesn’t mean he can’t be valuable. What’s going to separate him from being just a serviceable starter to a good one is if his defense can take a step forward. He’s looked better lately so I’m encouraged. 

[Jose Abreu]

1 minute ago, Blackout Friday said:

His bat should be fine. The lack of pop limits his upside, which isn’t really debatable, but doesn’t mean he can’t be valuable. What’s going to separate him from being just a serviceable starter to a good one is if his defense can take a step forward. He’s looked better lately so I’m encouraged. 

Yup, everything he's doing on offense is pretty expected, save for some of the more extreme naysayers who thought he'd never even hit doubles. I think it's way too soon for victory laps, though, as his defense and baserunning are what will determine if he's just a good starter or a true high-impact weapon, and while they're much better than they were last year and in the first week of the season, we still need to see a lot more

[poppysox]

8 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I understand making these comparisons, but do you think Madrigal has the potential to win the Gold Glove multiple times as well as an MVP like Fox did? Do you think Nick can walk 87 times per 162 games or hit 45 career homers like Appling did? Because those are parts of those players skills sets, and part of the high ceilings they enjoyed during peak years. 

Yes, both are high batting average/low power players, but both had so many other aspects of their game that made them hall of famers, and Nick hasn’t demonstrated that level of ceiling. I can’t see him ever getting to 5 or 6 or 7 WAR in a single season - can you? I could see him putting up 3-4 consistently, though, if he continues to play at his best. 

[poppysox]

Just now, poppysox said:

23 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I understand making these comparisons, but do you think Madrigal has the potential to win the Gold Glove multiple times as well as an MVP like Fox did? Do you think Nick can walk 87 times per 162 games or hit 45 career homers like Appling did? Because those are parts of those players skills sets, and part of the high ceilings they enjoyed during peak years. 

Yes, both are high batting average/low power players, but both had so many other aspects of their game that made them hall of famers, and Nick hasn’t demonstrated that level of ceiling. I can’t see him ever getting to 5 or 6 or 7 WAR in a single season - can you? I could see him putting up 3-4 consistently, though, if he continues to play at his best. 

Luke made 42 errors in his first 104 game season.  Nellie hit below .200 in his first two partial seasons totaling 39 games.  Hall of fame careers requires long and healthy years so really can't be predicted for anyone.  I do think Madrigal has the tools to be a special player providing his health holds up.

[Greg Hibbard]

45 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Luke made 42 errors in his first 104 game season.  Nellie hit below .200 in his first two partial seasons totaling 39 games.  Hall of fame careers requires long and healthy years so really can't be predicted for anyone.  I do think Madrigal has the tools to be a special player providing his health holds up.

I think we can predict that if Madrigal walks at a rate he currently is, if his home run power stays at or close to zero, if his base running and defense remain at plus but not exceptional, there is no chance he will put up numbers to make him a hall of famer, even if he hits .330 for his career. 

Madrigal’s high floor is defined by all the things he can do that literally no one else can - which are amazing by the way -  but unfortunately his low ceiling will also potentially be defined by all the things he cannot do that many others can. 
 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Greg Hibbard

[35thstreetswarm]

Bonus Q:  does the fact that the entire tenor of this thread shifted completely in like 36 hours say anything about the sample size being used to evaluate Nick?  

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I think we can predict that if Madrigal walks at a rate he currently is, if his home run power stays at or close to zero, if his base running and defense remain at plus but not exceptional, there is no chance he will put up numbers to make him a hall of famer, even if he hits .330 for his career. 

Madrigal’s high floor is defined by all the things he can do that literally no one else can - which are amazing by the way -  but unfortunately his low ceiling will also potentially be defined by all the things he cannot do that many others can. 
 

 

If he plays 15-20 years and gets his 3000 hits with that .330 batting average you mention...he will be in the HOF.  BTW...his defense will be better than some here think IMO.  He is looking better each day as he is adjusting to the ML game and gets over his shoulder issue.

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, poppysox said:

If he plays 15-20 years and gets his 3000 hits with that .330 batting average you mention...he will be in the HOF.  BTW...his defense will be better than some here think IMO.  He is looking better each day as he is adjusting to the ML game and gets over his shoulder issue.

That’s like Gwynn or Boggs quality hitting...beyond those guys, even with the change in baseball.

[Greg Hibbard]

25 minutes ago, poppysox said:

If he plays 15-20 years and gets his 3000 hits with that .330 batting average you mention...he will be in the HOF.  BTW...his defense will be better than some here think IMO.  He is looking better each day as he is adjusting to the ML game and gets over his shoulder issue.

Do you see him getting 9100 ML at bats? That’s 500 a year for 18 straight years. Especially some years out of the 9 spot?

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

15 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Do you see him getting 9100 ML at bats? That’s 500 a year for 18 straight years. Especially some years out of the 9 spot?

He will get 500 at bats easy consistently.. However, I aint betting on 18 years haha

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

I guess we need to start elaborating in what the established definition of "great" is. Because his ceiling definitely looks great to me.

If you inspire a sandwich that sells out instantly, you might be considered great.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CN45JrsDLbr/

 

[poppysox]

11 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Do you see him getting 9100 ML at bats? That’s 500 a year for 18 straight years. Especially some years out of the 9 spot?

I don't see anything but a real nice career.  We can't predict 18-year careers for anyone but some do accomplish that type of longevity.  Madrigal is as likely as anyone on this team to have a long and successful major league career, 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

50 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Bonus Q:  does the fact that the entire tenor of this thread shifted completely in like 36 hours say anything about the sample size being used to evaluate Nick?  

Yes but also there's enough negative stuff out there about Madrigal ,so when he does well, it's time for the more positive people to have their say.

[tray]

Does  Madrigal's skill set  at the plate fit well  in within the WSox  line-up?

On another team with less power up and down the line-up, your answer might be different. 

Using Benetti's  volleyball analogy, someone has to set up the ball so others can spike it.

Watching Madrigal's at bats has been almost as enjoyable as watching Mercedes. He sees the ball and can put a good swing on it when he wants.

 

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, tray said:

Does  Madrigal's skill set  at the plate fit well  in within the WSox  line-up?

On another team with less power up and down the line-up, your answer might be different. 

Using Benetti's  volleyball analogy, someone has to set up the ball so others can spike it.

Watching Madrigal's at bats has been almost as enjoyable as watching Mercedes. He sees the ball and can put a good swing on it when he wants.

 

well at his height being a setter is more realistic.

[tray]

Yes that was the point.