The Makings of a Juggernaut?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE 886]

Last year the Sox finished 1st overall in fWAR generated from their position players and 11th overall in fWAR generated from their pitching. Some wrote it off as SSS and fluky because of the shortened season. Thing is, they’ve kept it up this season and so far are even more balanced ranking 4th and 5th, respectively.

Earlier this week, fangraphs published their week 1 power rankings and listed the Sox with the second highest “team quality” in MLB behind only, you guessed it, the Dodgers.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/fangraphs-power-rankings-week-1/

Their record doesn’t reflect it yet this season but do we have the makings of an absolute juggernaut this season and beyond? The AL version of the Dodgers if you will.

[poppysox 2,196]

Overall things are looking good.  Relief pitching has been my biggest concern...but we have the horses to get er done.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE 886]

8 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Overall things are looking good.  Relief pitching has been my biggest concern...but we have the horses to get er done.

The one area where everyone thought was bullet proof headed into the season has been the biggest weakness. I think it’ll come around still. As long as Hendriks remains elite and a couple other guys step up as steady high leverage relievers they’ll be fine.

Edited April 24, 2021 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[brijames1957 557]

Let's not go overboard. Were only 19 games in to the season. Come talk to me again after the 60 game mark.

[chitownsportsfan 5,047]

12 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Last year the Sox finished 1st overall in fWAR generated from their position players and 11th overall in fWAR generated from their pitching. Some wrote it off as SSS and fluky because of the shortened season. Thing is, they’ve kept it up this season and so far are even more balanced ranking 4th and 5th, respectively.

Earlier this week, fangraphs published their week 1 power rankings and listed the Sox with the second highest “team quality” in MLB behind only, you guessed it, the Dodgers.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/fangraphs-power-rankings-week-1/

Their record doesn’t reflect it yet this season but do we have the makings of an absolute juggernaut this season and beyond? The AL version of the Dodgers if you will.

I've said it quite a few times the depth on this squad is impressive.  Guys are stepping up.  I was heartened to see fangraphs agrees and now has Sox projected at 90 wins even with the mediocre start, that is more than preseason with Eloy!

Things can go south but we should try and enjoy this club.  I was wrong about my lack of interest early the Sox are compelling and probably pretty damn good.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE 886]

3 minutes ago, brijames1957 said:

Let's not go overboard. Were only 19 games in to the season. Come talk to me again after the 60 game mark.

If it was only 19 games, sure. But it’s 60 + 19 and we are seeing this high level of production carried over from last season.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE 886]

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I've said it quite a few times the depth on this squad is impressive.  Guys are stepping up.  I was heartened to see fangraphs agrees and now has Sox projected at 90 wins even with the mediocre start, that is more than preseason with Eloy!

Things can go south but we should try and enjoy this club.  I was wrong about my lack of interest early the Sox are compelling and probably pretty damn good.

90 wins sounds about right and should be enough to win the division with the Twins looking shaky to start the season. Get in the playoffs and I like the Sox chances with Gio-Lynn-Keuchel-Rodon and hopefully an elite bullpen.

[Chicago White Sox 9,341]

19 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Last year the Sox finished 1st overall in fWAR generated from their position players and 11th overall in fWAR generated from their pitching. Some wrote it off as SSS and fluky because of the shortened season. Thing is, they’ve kept it up this season and so far are even more balanced ranking 4th and 5th, respectively.

Earlier this week, fangraphs published their week 1 power rankings and listed the Sox with the second highest “team quality” in MLB behind only, you guessed it, the Dodgers.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/fangraphs-power-rankings-week-1/

Their record doesn’t reflect it yet this season but do we have the makings of an absolute juggernaut this season and beyond? The AL version of the Dodgers if you will.

To say we have a juggernaut beyond this year seems way too premature.  The rotation is a huge question mark going forward with Giolito only under control for two more seasons, Lynn & Rodon both free agents this coming offseason, Keuchel likely to start declining, and Cease still not clicking yet (although is stuff is definitely improved).  Yes, we have Kopech who looks like he will be a legit ace, but we still need to figure other things out.  Dylan breaking through or a Lynn extension would be nice.  And while I’d love to see Crochet move to a full time starter role next year, I’m afraid his arm won’t be ready for that.  I think the rest of the roster appears to be in pretty good cheap, but the rotation requires further clarity.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE 886]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

To say we have a juggernaut beyond this year seems way too premature.  The rotation is a huge question mark going forward with Giolito only under control for two more seasons, Lynn & Rodon both free agents this coming offseason, Keuchel likely to start declining, and Cease still not clicking yet (although is stuff is definitely improved).  Yes, we have Kopech who looks like he will be a legit ace, but we still need to figure other things out.  Dylan breaking through or a Lynn extension would be nice.  And while I’d love to see Crochet move to a full time starter role next year, I’m afraid his arm won’t be ready for that.  I think the rest of the roster appears to be in pretty good cheap, but the rotation requires further clarity.

No different than the 90s Indians though, no? That team was built around a top offense, which I think the Sox have for years to come.

[pcq 1,198]

Just fill your pen with live arms and they will survive. 

[michelangelosmonkey 629]

21 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

No different than the 90s Indians though, no? That team was built around a top offense, which I think the Sox have for years to come.

If you forced every team to have a roster of 28 or younger White Sox would have: Vaughn 1b- 23, Madrigal 2b-24, Tim Anderson SS-28, Moncado 3b-26, Cespedes RF-23, Robert CF-23, Eloy LF-24, Collins C-26, Yermin DH-28.  Mendick 27 Utility, Colas utility of -22    Gio-25, Cease-26, Kopech-25, Rodon 28, Vera-20 .  Crochett 22, Heuer-24, Foster-26, Bummer 27, Ruiz 26. Burdi-26...and that barely touches our top 30 minor leaguers.   Honestly there can't be a team that can beat that group of young players.  And the great thing (that so many on Soxtalk say is a terrible thing) is we have pretty close to zero bad contracts...we have money to spend and in spite the reputation JR spends money (top five payroll) when the team is good.  We are in for an exciting five year run.      

[caulfield12 4,434]

Defense and bullpen need to be shored up.

Keuchel, Grandal, Lynn, Hendriks and Abreu all need to produce right now.

It’s all about the timing, with the first generation of youngsters coalescing with the second (Robert, Vaughn, Madrigal, Kopech, Crochet.)

 

There are realistically still a ton of vulnerabilities/weaknesses, especially in the starting rotation.

The biggest concern at this moment to me is Giolito...without him regaining his mid to high 90’s stuff, we’re unlikely to go far in the playoffs.  Kopech and Rodon are the best hopes of addressing that at the immediate moment.

The focus of this front office on eventually extending Tim Anderson for his age 31/32+ seasons beginning in 2025 is the singular ticking timer.   He’s the beating heart and soul of this franchise, and they won’t be the same if he moves on.  And honestly, giving a $200+ million contract to Anderson seems unlikely since we’d be paying peak value for declining production.  Have already moved on from a Giolito deal happening.

So, essentially we have a window now for four seasons.  Everything beyond that becomes murkier, a great unknown variable.

 

[caulfield12 4,434]

9 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

If you forced every team to have a roster of 28 or younger White Sox would have: Vaughn 1b- 23, Madrigal 2b-24, Tim Anderson SS-28, Moncado 3b-26, Cespedes RF-23, Robert CF-23, Eloy LF-24, Collins C-26, Yermin DH-28.  Mendick 27 Utility, Colas utility of -22    Gio-25, Cease-26, Kopech-25, Rodon 28, Vera-20 .  Crochett 22, Heuer-24, Foster-26, Bummer 27, Ruiz 26. Burdi-26...and that barely touches our top 30 minor leaguers.   Honestly there can't be a team that can beat that group of young players.  And the great thing (that so many on Soxtalk say is a terrible thing) is we have pretty close to zero bad contracts...we have money to spend and in spite the reputation JR spends money (top five payroll) when the team is good.  We are in for an exciting five year run.      

Three years ago, the outfield of the Sox future had infinite possibilities.  There were five prospects in our Top 12-15.

No way in a million years am I now counting on Cespedes or Colas...just hoping to be pleasantly surprised for once.  Robert is a once in a generation talent.

Cease is at best a mixed bag on contradictions a year away from being Reynaldo Lopez, Collins is what he is and Rodon has Scott Boras as his agent and no option.  Think Eovaldi signing long-term with Boston of he ends up Top 10 in the Cy Young race.

In fact, it might be better to keep Rodon for 50% of Giolito’s extension ask and allocate the remainder of the savings elsewhere.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE 886]

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Three years ago, the outfield of the Sox future had infinite possibilities.  There were five prospects in our Top 12-15.

No way in a million years am I now counting on Cespedes or Colas...just hoping to be pleasantly surprised for once.  Robert is a once in a generation talent.

Cease is at best a mixed bag on contradictions a year away from being Reynaldo Lopez, Collins is what he is and Rodon has Scott Boras as his agent and no option.  Think Eovaldi signing long-term with Boston of he ends up Top 10 in the Cy Young race.

In fact, it might be better to keep Rodon for 50% of Giolito’s extension ask and allocate the remainder of the savings elsewhere.

Not overly concerned about Rodon or Cease after this season when you have guys like Kopech, Crochet, Lambert, etc. waiting in the wings. If there’s one area the Sox have developed well over the years, it’s pitching.

[RagahRagah 977]

1 hour ago, brijames1957 said:

Let's not go overboard. Were only 19 games in to the season. Come talk to me again after the 60 game mark.

It is really hard trying to quantify how good this team actually is after a 60 game season and 3 weeks into the next. 

[Rey21 127]

I’m still worried that their offense is gonna be too streaky especially against righties and they really need better outings from Cease and Kuechel because those two have taxed the bullpen. 

[michelangelosmonkey 629]

52 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Three years ago, the outfield of the Sox future had infinite possibilities.  There were five prospects in our Top 12-15.

No way in a million years am I now counting on Cespedes or Colas...just hoping to be pleasantly surprised for once.  Robert is a once in a generation talent.

Cease is at best a mixed bag on contradictions a year away from being Reynaldo Lopez, Collins is what he is and Rodon has Scott Boras as his agent and no option.  Think Eovaldi signing long-term with Boston of he ends up Top 10 in the Cy Young race.

In fact, it might be better to keep Rodon for 50% of Giolito’s extension ask and allocate the remainder of the savings elsewhere.

I'm not guaranteeing Cespedes or Colas...it was merely a thought experiment about putting together a team 0f 28 and younger.  I also think it's unfair to trash our OF prospects from 3 years ago...they all were exciting in 2018, moved up to the very difficult to hit park in Birmingham in 2019...and yes didn't adjust very well...then Covid in 2020 and now delayed start.  One could still break through.   As for Collins "is what he is"??  He has flashed much improved defensive skills and if he ever got a 20 game stretch to prove it...I think he hits.  I like extending Rodon and as for Gio...we have him under contract this year and TWO YEARS MORE.   By that time Stiever and Vera and Dahlquist and Kelley and Thompson could make his resigning irrelevant.   Still always nice to have you pee on a happiness thread.       

[caulfield12 4,434]

7 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I'm not guaranteeing Cespedes or Colas...it was merely a thought experiment about putting together a team 0f 28 and younger.  I also think it's unfair to trash our OF prospects from 3 years ago...they all were exciting in 2018, moved up to the very difficult to hit park in Birmingham in 2019...and yes didn't adjust very well...then Covid in 2020 and now delayed start.  One could still break through.   As for Collins "is what he is"??  He has flashed much improved defensive skills and if he ever got a 20 game stretch to prove it...I think he hits.  I like extending Rodon and as for Gio...we have him under contract this year and TWO YEARS MORE.   By that time Stiever and Vera and Dahlquist and Kelley and Thompson could make his resigning irrelevant.   Still always nice to have you pee on a happiness thread.       

So basically all of our prospects are going to pan out...fine.

There’s really no point in having a message board if we have to believe Collins will be just fine as a hitter.

Have been watching MLB since 1979, and it’s very very rare to go from where he’s at to a regular when under the stress of a win now situation.

He just won’t get enough playing time to ever develop a consistent offensive rhythm, and Mercedes is cutting into his at-bats as well.

The odds of Stiever being in a future rotation are about 1 in 50...for the very same reasons we parted with Dunning, to get someone in the short term who’s closer to Top 10-15 Cy Young caliber THIS season.

Same exact reason we traded a much bigger haul for Jeff Samardzija back in 2015. 
 

 

For all those saying we are great at developing pitching, there’s only really Giolito since the Sale/Q years, and Lucas 90-95% did it through going outside the organization.  Lopez and Fulmer were fails.  Cease is still a massive work and progress, and Rodon could have been signed by any almost any team in baseball willing to offer $5+ million or two years guaranteed.

[michelangelosmonkey 629]

19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

So basically all of our prospects are going to pan out...fine.

There’s really no point in having a message board if we have to believe Collins will be just fine as a hitter.

Have been watching MLB since 1979, and it’s very very rare to go from where he’s at to a regular when under the stress of a win now situation.

He just won’t get enough playing time to ever develop a consistent offensive rhythm, and Mercedes is cutting into his at-bats as well.

The odds of Stiever being in a future rotation are about 1 in 50...for the very same reasons we parted with Dunning, to get someone in the short term who’s closer to Top 10-15 Cy Young caliber THIS season.

Same exact reason we traded a much bigger haul for Jeff Samardzija back in 2015. 
 

 

For all those saying we are great at developing pitching, there’s only really Giolito since the Sale/Q years, and Lucas 90-95% did it through going outside the organization.  Lopez and Fulmer were fails.  Cease is still a massive work and progress, and Rodon could have been signed by any almost any team in baseball willing to offer $5+ million or two years guaranteed.

So basically all our prospects will fail...fine.  Enjoy the team

[Jerksticks 992]

Yes OP.  Yes.  This is all I’ve been saying forever now.  People have no idea the historic level of talent we have on the team and in the minors.  
 

They get mad about the bullpen blowing some leads,  a TLR decision, or Madrigal having no power.  Totally missing the forest for the early sapling trees of 2021.  It’s ridiculous.  Everybody already changing their tunes after a decent few games.  Wait until the Sox win 15 out of 20, 30 out of 40 etc.  
 

This run of White Sox baseball will be the best dynasty in the history of the game and it won’t be close.  

[Chicago White Sox 9,341]

2 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Yes OP.  Yes.  This is all I’ve been saying forever now.  People have no idea the historic level of talent we have on the team and in the minors.  
 

They get mad about the bullpen blowing some leads,  a TLR decision, or Madrigal having no power.  Totally missing the forest for the early sapling trees of 2021.  It’s ridiculous.  Everybody already changing their tunes after a decent few games.  Wait until the Sox win 15 out of 20, 30 out of 40 etc.  
 

This run of White Sox baseball will be the best dynasty in the history of the game and it won’t be close.  

For the love of god please stop with this act.  I appreciate posters that are optimistic, but your posts simply aren’t baked in reality.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE 886]

24 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

For the love of god please stop with this act.  I appreciate posters that are optimistic, but your posts simply aren’t baked in reality.

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to think the 2020s will be the best decade in franchise history. 

[Tnetennba 3,948]

When the Sox can make trades for starting pitching the way San Diego did this winter and not make a sizable dent in their system then maybe we can use words like historic or juggernaut.  There is good talent on the 40 man and in the minors, but this isn't even a good team yet.  Lets be real.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE 886]

9 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

When the Sox can make trades for starting pitching the way San Diego did this winter and not make a sizable dent in their system then maybe we can use words like historic or juggernaut.  There is good talent on the 40 man and in the minors, but this isn't even a good team yet.  Lets be real.

And yet, per fangraphs, the Sox have a better team than the Padres. Still super early and we’ll see how the season plays out but sometimes having the team with all the “big” names doesn’t equate to a great team on the field.

Edited April 24, 2021 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[Chicago White Sox 9,341]

14 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to think the 2020s will be the best decade in franchise history. 

Best decade in franchise history <> best dynasty in the history of the game