Injuries: can the training staff be blamed?

[Dominikk85]

Lots of talk about the training staff but I wonder if you can really blame them. Eloy was a freak/idiotic play incident and and flexor strain can happen. Same applies to Tim's strain early in the season, that can happen when it is early and cold. 

I'm more concerned about the pitcher injuries. The sox had a relatively good pitcher health stretch in the early to mid 2010s but in the last years it got quite bad with lots of injuries. 

I don't think the sox training staff is bad but maybe it is not Completely top of the line? 

Then again I'm not sure if this is even a puzzle that can be resolved. 

 

The Yankees hired "super guru" Eric cressey and so far there is not a huge effect an Yankees still get injured all the time. 

 

Maybe @ptatc can say what the state of the art is and if there even is a solution for that or whether baseball players just get injured? 

[reiks12]

The pitching staff has been mostly healthy this year outside of Crotch rocket. I cant fault them on Eloy or Roberts injuries either.

Edited May 4, 2021 by reiks12

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

Lots of talk about the training staff but I wonder if you can really blame them. Eloy was a freak/idiotic play incident and and flexor strain can happen. Same applies to Tim's strain early in the season, that can happen when it is early and cold. 

I'm more concerned about the pitcher injuries. The sox had a relatively good pitcher health stretch in the early to mid 2010s but in the last years it got quite bad with lots of injuries. 

I don't think the sox training staff is bad but maybe it is not Completely top of the line? 

Then again I'm not sure if this is even a puzzle that can be resolved. 

 

The Yankees hired "super guru" Eric cressey and so far there is not a huge effect an Yankees still get injured all the time. 

 

Maybe @ptatc can say what the state of the art is and if there even is a solution for that or whether baseball players just get injured? 

The only one that concerns me is the multiple set backs for Engel. It's puzzling. 

Jimenez and Robert were freak accidents. But both if them seem to do it regularly. 

The odd part isn't the muscle strains because those happen but the catastrophic nature of them.

Pitching the way they do now with maximum effort for longer periods of time is just going to lead to injuries.

[bmags]

I'm going to be a little lenient on this because who knows what the relationship is like now with the covid protocols, it may have been a lot less monitoring and relying more on players doing the work the last year.

[Dick Allen]

I would guess most training staffs do the same thing 99.9% of the time. There might be a rogue trainer or 2, but these are the elite people in their field, and they keep up with all the latest things. 

[ptatc]

42 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I would guess most training staffs do the same thing 99.9% of the time. There might be a rogue trainer or 2, but these are the elite people in their field, and they keep up with all the latest things. 

Correct

[harkness99]

sadly... injuries more often than not at this level come down to bad luck.

Professional sports teams all have top notch everything... trainers, medical staff, nutrition... ect.

[joejoesox]

Grandal, Moncada (he always looks hurt, why?), Anderson, Lynn, Robert, Engel, Crochet

it isn't unfair to question the training staff, or for that matter the players' work ethic

 

[kgrittenburg]

The Engel debacle has me concerned

 

[ron883]

Tbh, I'm more worried about how deep into games TLR has the pitchers going, especially after a shortened season. No need to ride the starters 110+ pitches. 

[mqr]

The Engel one is the only thing that raises any eyebrows from me. 

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, joesaiditstrue said:

Grandal, Moncada (he always looks hurt, why?), Anderson, Lynn, Robert, Engel, Crochet

it isn't unfair to question the training staff, or for that matter the players' work ethic

 

It's not unfair.  Think about how many professional sports teams there are. Just like players, there are going to be some that are better than others. However, the Sox have good people.

I'm wondering if there was pressure put on Engel to hurry up and he did too much.

Edited May 4, 2021 by ptatc

[reiks12]

Engel was watching Leury Garcia destroy the team and knew he had to get back quick.

[Balta1701]

I don't know that the training staff isn't making some obvious mistake, but think about the offseason, what was our biggest complaint - the lack of depth. Why? Because we looked at the roster and saw a whole bunch of guys who were generally injury risks, all of whom were coming off the weirdest season in our lifetimes for training and schedules. This is why some of us said this team wasn't likely to win 100 games, and this is why people complained so much that Rick Hahn himself got sick of people throwing "The money will be spent" back at him on Twitter.

If you told anyone in the offseason that 2 of the regulars were basically lost for the bulk of the season by early may, a lot of us would be saying "Well that figures, that's pretty much what we expected. We couldn't have told you how it happened, we probably wouldn't have guessed Robert and Eloy, but we wouldn't be surprised at all. 

You can't be all that surprised when guys who are injury risks get hurt.

[GermanSoxFan]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know that the training staff isn't making some obvious mistake, but think about the offseason, what was our biggest complaint - the lack of depth. Why? Because we looked at the roster and saw a whole bunch of guys who were generally injury risks, all of whom were coming off the weirdest season in our lifetimes for training and schedules. This is why some of us said this team wasn't likely to win 100 games, and this is why people complained so much that Rick Hahn himself got sick of people throwing "The money will be spent" back at him on Twitter.

If you told anyone in the offseason that 2 of the regulars were basically lost for the bulk of the season by early may, a lot of us would be saying "Well that figures, that's pretty much what we expected. We couldn't have told you how it happened, we probably wouldn't have guessed Robert and Eloy, but we wouldn't be surprised at all. 

You can't be all that surprised when guys who are injury risks get hurt.

Which realistic depth pieces did you have in my mind? The bench was pretty set in stone with Collins, Leury and Engel with Mendick being a candidate as well. Not a fan of the Eaton signing, but which depth pieces woukd have helped alleviate losing Luis and Eloy for a good chunk of the season? Probably none because I am pretty sure people would have gotten tired of flawed players like Kike Hernandez or Marwin Gonzalez as well.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, GermanSoxFan said:

Which realistic depth pieces did you have in my mind? The bench was pretty set in stone with Collins, Leury and Engel with Mendick being a candidate as well. Not a fan of the Eaton signing, but which depth pieces woukd have helped alleviate losing Luis and Eloy for a good chunk of the season? Probably none because I am pretty sure people would have gotten tired of flawed players like Kike Hernandez or Marwin Gonzalez as well.

Well we'd get tired of LaRussa benching Vaughn for them, but that's a different story from "having them available when your front line guys go down as expected". 

[ptatc]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know that the training staff isn't making some obvious mistake, but think about the offseason, what was our biggest complaint - the lack of depth. Why? Because we looked at the roster and saw a whole bunch of guys who were generally injury risks, all of whom were coming off the weirdest season in our lifetimes for training and schedules. This is why some of us said this team wasn't likely to win 100 games, and this is why people complained so much that Rick Hahn himself got sick of people throwing "The money will be spent" back at him on Twitter.

If you told anyone in the offseason that 2 of the regulars were basically lost for the bulk of the season by early may, a lot of us would be saying "Well that figures, that's pretty much what we expected. We couldn't have told you how it happened, we probably wouldn't have guessed Robert and Eloy, but we wouldn't be surprised at all. 

You can't be all that surprised when guys who are injury risks get hurt.

No but you can be surprised that they entire season type injuries. No team is going to having 5 starting quality OF on the team. It just isn't a good allocation of resources on a team with limited resources. No one willing to sign to sit on the bench is going to replace Jimenez or robert.

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well we'd get tired of LaRussa benching Vaughn for them, but that's a different story from "having them available when your front line guys go down as expected". 

So you think it was advisable to have Vaughn learn MLB hitting and a new position at the MLB, when the original plan was to ease him in as a part time DH?

I assume you are also in the camp of having Justin Fields start for the bears from day 1 with no mini-camps, practice or OTA's

Edited May 4, 2021 by ptatc

[greg775]

28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know that the training staff isn't making some obvious mistake, but think about the offseason, what was our biggest complaint - the lack of depth. Why? Because we looked at the roster and saw a whole bunch of guys who were generally injury risks, all of whom were coming off the weirdest season in our lifetimes for training and schedules. This is why some of us said this team wasn't likely to win 100 games, and this is why people complained so much that Rick Hahn himself got sick of people throwing "The money will be spent" back at him on Twitter.

 If you told anyone in the offseason that 2 of the regulars were basically lost for the bulk of the season by early may, a lot of us would be saying "Well that figures, that's pretty much what we expected. We couldn't have told you how it happened, we probably wouldn't have guessed Robert and Eloy, but we wouldn't be surprised at all. 

You can't be all that surprised when guys who are injury risks get hurt.

Yep. Yep. Every word in that post makes sense IMO. Spot on.

[Vulture]

4 hours ago, harkness99 said:

sadly... injuries more often than not at this level come down to bad luck.

Professional sports teams all have top notch everything... trainers, medical staff, nutrition... ect.

Old school thinking was weight training was bad for baseball players. Maybe there was truth to that and players today are over conditioned

[Vulture]

58 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

 

7 hours ago, ptatc said:

The only one that concerns me is the multiple set backs for Engel. It's puzzling. 

Jimenez and Robert were freak accidents. But both if them seem to do it regularly. 

The odd part isn't the muscle strains because those happen but the catastrophic nature of them.

Pitching the way they do now with maximum effort for longer periods of time is just going to lead to injuries.

You think a complete muscle tear while running is simply a freak accident? I don’t see how running down a baseline could be considered a freak occurence

Edited May 4, 2021 by Vulture

[Vulture]

5 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I would guess most training staffs do the same thing 99.9% of the time. There might be a rogue trainer or 2, but these are the elite people in their field, and they keep up with all the latest things. 

If it’s the latest thing then it follows that means it’s untested by results. As results accumulate then maybe it reveals something about the latest thing. Unintended consequences is an actual thing, just look at the state of the world for countless examples

[poppysox]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:09 PM, reiks12 said:

Engel was watching Leury Garcia destroy the team and knew he had to get back quick.

I am disappointed for Engel.  This would have been his year to shine.  

[ptatc]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:52 PM, Vulture said:

 

You think a complete muscle tear while running is simply a freak accident? I don’t see how running down a baseline could be considered a freak occurence

He wasn't just running. He tripped a couple of steps before the bag and then had to reach for the bag from an awkward position.

[ptatc]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:58 PM, Vulture said:

If it’s the latest thing then it follows that means it’s untested by results. As results accumulate then maybe it reveals something about the latest thing. Unintended consequences is an actual thing, just look at the state of the world for countless examples

The latest things that we implement come from research. Staff at this level will not just do something they heard about.