Rodon

[chitownsportsfan]

Offer him the QO and when he declines pocket the pick.  Easy peasy. Let another team risk the downside the Sox can enjoy him this year (knock on wood) and then enjoy a sandwich pick for their QO.

[Vulture]

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Offer him the QO and when he declines pocket the pick.  Easy peasy. Let another team risk the downside the Sox can enjoy him this year (knock on wood) and then enjoy a sandwich pick for their QO.

Sandwich pick has nowhere near the value of an ace. There’s zero chance the Sox could acquire that caliber of pitcher for what Rodon potentially might cost, unless he’s commanding 35+ million per year. I don’t even think he’s that big of  a risk. Guys who recover from TJS are usually durable

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Vulture said:

Sandwich pick has nowhere near the value of an ace. There’s zero chance the Sox could acquire that caliber of pitcher for what Rodon potentially might cost, unless he’s commanding 35+ million per year. I don’t even think he’s that big of  a risk. Guys who recover from TJS are usually durable

He's a Boras client and there is zero chance he signs with the Sox.  It's best to just be pragmatic about it and not pay the "winner's curse" that will make sure whoever ends up signing him gets fleeced on the back end. 

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Sandwich pick has nowhere near the value of an ace. There’s zero chance the Sox could acquire that caliber of pitcher for what Rodon potentially might cost, unless he’s commanding 35+ million per year. I don’t even think he’s that big of  a risk. Guys who recover from TJS are usually durable

I would be more worried about the shoulder holding up from the removal of the bursa than the UCL reconstruction. Especially since he still uses that awful stand up follow through. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by ptatc

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Sandwich pick has nowhere near the value of an ace. There’s zero chance the Sox could acquire that caliber of pitcher for what Rodon potentially might cost, unless he’s commanding 35+ million per year. I don’t even think he’s that big of  a risk. Guys who recover from TJS are usually durable

The TJS is far from the only injury he has had.  With the way the Sox spend, locking up say $20 million a year in Rodon for a 3 or 4 year period could be brutal if he has another significant injury, which he does pretty much every year.

[Vulture]

7 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I would be more worried about the shoulder holding up from the removal of the bursa than the UCL reconstruction. Especially since he still uses that awful stand up follow through. 

Where do you get that he had his bursa removed? Every article I’ve seen says he had debridement done and full recovery was expected?

[mqr]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

The TJS is far from the only injury he has had.  With the way the Sox spend, locking up say $20 million a year in Rodon for a 3 or 4 year period could be brutal if he has another significant injury, which he does pretty much every year.

This whole conversation is silly when he still has yet to make it to June. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, mqr said:

This whole conversation is silly when he still has yet to make it to June. 

I mean don't get me wrong, I LOVE this Carlos Rodon and hope he lasts forever, but would I bet $20 million a year on it?  No way.  I don't know that I would bet $10 he makes it through 2021 without a DL trip at some point.

[ptatc]

18 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Where do you get that he had his bursa removed? Every article I’ve seen says he had debridement done and full recovery was expected?

The debridement was the bursa. That's what they took out. He did have full recovery. However any debridement is going to make the shoulder more unstable. He obviously rehabbed well but it's going to make it more difficult to keep the shoulder stable in the long term. Not that he can't but it is cause for concern with his history and the awful motion.

Edited May 26, 2021 by ptatc

[Vulture]

16 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The debridement was the bursa. That's what they took out. He did have full recovery. However any debridement is going to make the shoulder more unstable. He obviously rehabbed well but it's going to make it more difficult to keep the shoulder stable in the long term. Not that he can't but it is cause for concern with his history and the awful motion.

Debridement and bursectomy are two different things. Where’s your source he had a bursectomy?

[Vulture]

Regardless there’s no reason to believe he didn’t go through the proper physical therapy to where he is fully recovered anyway

[chitownsportsfan]

4 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Debridement and bursectomy are two different things. Where’s your source he had a bursectomy?

You're out over your skis here.  The bursectomy WAS the debridement.  The injured bursa was removed as part of the debridement.

Edited May 26, 2021 by chitownsportsfan

[ptatc]

Just now, Vulture said:

Debridement and bursectomy are two different things. Where’s your source he had a bursectomy?

No they aren't. He had a significant case of bursitis. He had a debridement.  The rotator cuff and labrum were normal hence nothing was done to them. So you tell me what else besides the bursa was removed.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Vulture said:

Regardless there’s no reason to believe he didn’t go through the proper physical therapy to where he is fully recovered anyway

True. But not having whatever tissue was removed there makes it more difficult to maintain the shoulder stability thus having a healthy shoulder. Giving him a long term deal or a substantial monetary deal is a risky investment. 

[Vulture]

Just now, ptatc said:

No they aren't. He had a significant case of bursitis. He had a debridement.  The rotator cuff and labrum were normal hence nothing was done to them. So you tell me what else besides the bursa was removed.

Yes they are

https://aidmybursa.com/bursitis-surgery/bursectomy-bursa-removal-surgery.php

 

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, ptatc said:

True. But not having whatever tissue was removed there makes it more difficult to maintain the shoulder stability thus having a healthy shoulder. Giving him a long term deal or a substantial monetary deal is a risky investment. 

If it was a random FA pitcher coming off a career year I'd imagine most people would feel differently.  There is an attachment to Rodon for what he's done this year after signing the one year deal but Hahn has to take that emotion out of it.

[Vulture]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

True. But not having whatever tissue was removed there makes it more difficult to maintain the shoulder stability thus having a healthy shoulder. Giving him a long term deal or a substantial monetary deal is a risky investment. 

Even in the case of bursa removal, the bursa grows back so he wouldn’t be missing any tissue anyway, even if he did have a bursectomy, which you still havent provided a source for.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Vulture

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Vulture said:

Yes they are

https://aidmybursa.com/bursitis-surgery/bursectomy-bursa-removal-surgery.php

 

Good definition of a bursa removal.  Now go look up the definition of debridement.  It means removal of tissue. Hence in this case the bursectomy and the debridement are the same thing. The bursa is what was debrided.

[Vulture]

6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

You're out over your skies here.  The bursectomy WAS the debridement.  The injured bursa was removed as part of the debridement.  

Incorrect, it wouldn’t be called debridement if it was a bursectomy

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Vulture said:

Even in the case of bursa removal, the bursa grows back so he wouldn’t be missing any tissue anyway, even if he did have a bursectomy, which you still havent provided a source for.

Bursa does not grow back. It is a Balloon like pocket of fluid that cushions the tendon from rubbing on the bone.

[ptatc]

23 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Incorrect, it wouldn’t be called debridement if it was a bursectomy

Yes it would. They normally don't get into those specifics when reporting to the general public. Most people don't know the difference. 

For example when Robert injured his hip flexor did they specify that it was his iliacus, the psoas major or the rectus femoris? No they speak in generalities.

Edited May 26, 2021 by ptatc

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Even in the case of bursa removal, the bursa grows back so he wouldn’t be missing any tissue anyway, even if he did have a bursectomy, which you still havent provided a source for.

 The bursa is the only possible tissue that would be removed in a case of chronic bursitis when the rotator cuff and labrum are not involved. What tissue do you supposed was removed?

I've rehabbed 100s of these and this is what is done.

[Vulture]

Just now, ptatc said:

 

35 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Good definition of a bursa removal.  Now go look up the definition of debridement.  It means removal of tissue. Hence in this case the bursectomy and the debridement are the same thing. The bursa is what was debrided.

 

“Surgery aims to create more space for the tendons underneath the acromion, to prevent them from impinging against the bone. Surgery can also remove inflamed tissue from the bursa, or remove the bursa altogether if necessary (a new one will grow back)”

If bursectomy and debridement are the same thing, how is there such a thing as bursectomy with debridement? Bursectomy is the removal of the bursa itself. Debridement is the removal of tissue that inflames or infects the bursa, ie bone Spurs, cartilage and damaged tissue. In the above quote the former is debridement, the latter is bursectomy.

https://www.findacode.com/newsletters/aha-coding-clinic/icd/bursectomy-irrigation-debridement-I232019.html

“A patient was admitted with infected prepatellar bursitis of the right knee. An irrigation, debridement and bursectomy were performed.”

if debridement and bursectomy are the same thing, why are they listed separately here? Poor guy is going to be double billed for same procedure

 

[Vulture]

48 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Bursa does not grow back. It is a Balloon like pocket of fluid that cushions the tendon from rubbing on the bone.

Yes it does

[Vulture]

https://www.mercy.com/health-care-services/orthopedics-sports-medicine-spine/specialties/foot-ankle/treatments/foot-bursectomy-or-surgical-removal

“A bursectomy is a surgical procedure in which the doctor removes one or more of these painful sacs from the space around your heel. As a you heal, new bursae form in its place. The new bursae are less likely to become irritated. That helps you move without pain.”

Edited May 26, 2021 by Vulture