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South Side Hit Men

Steve Stone / Yoan Moncada's "Lack of Effort and Interest"

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5 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I'm going  to listen a bit more coming from Stone than I would most announcers or media types. I think you also need to consider you can't see thoughts and emotions with 100% clarity. I've coached players that look like they care but really didn't and players that don't show emotion but really care. 

I'm thinking right now of a freshman who played horrible on day one and showed almost no emotion, like she didn't care. Coincidentally later I was having dinner at a different course and she was on the putting green at 8 pm. The pro told me she had been hitting balls since 4 o'clock. You don't always see the commitment and passion. 

Exactly.  You don't improve as much as Yoan has at 3B and from the right side of the plate without working on your craft.  People mistake rah rah for passion too often.  Not everybody is well served being Hendricks like. In fact in baseball it's almost always better to be an even keel type.

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Madrigal refused to run for 1st after the dropped 3rd stoke in the first game yesterday.  Steve should turn his ire toward him instead.  Not a good look!

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6 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Madrigal refused to run for 1st after the dropped 3rd stoke in the first game yesterday.  Steve should turn his ire toward him instead.  Not a good look!

Madrigal can only dream of having the arm strength, ability to come in on balls and throw across his body...and generally dominate a game from a defensive standpoint.  He’s not as flashy as TA, but he’s smooth and steady.

But Nick is the darling grinder/“dirt dog” along with Eaton.

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The only thing Moncada is disinterested in is calling for pop-ups

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2 hours ago, almagest said:

Normally I like Stone but this is needless drama. Yoan is having a fine season.

Stoney should be careful. This all could be COVID related re. Yoan. Otherwise, I credit Stone for voicing an opinion. Most announcers would be fired immediately for calling out a player's effort. The teams have right of refusal on announcers I believe.

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He’s had like 3/4 bad plays with fly balls…has there been any other instance to really criticize Yoan on? He’s been pretty stellar on D otherwise and the bat has been good, even if there is still hope for improvement. 
 

I also think a lot of people like Stone don’t like to admit that a superior athlete like Yoan doesn’t have to all out hustle at all times like the less talented “scrappy” guys…the results are what should matter, not what an old curmudgeon (and I like Stone) perceives.

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20 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Exactly.  You don't improve as much as Yoan has at 3B and from the right side of the plate without working on your craft.  People mistake rah rah for passion too often.  Not everybody is well served being Hendricks like. In fact in baseball it's almost always better to be an even keel type.

Exactly. Stone knows that. So is this “he worked hard to get to 90% of his potential and needs a kick in the ass to keep going” or a misread by Stone? 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, wegner said:

Yoan is a great talent who plays terrific defense (except on popups) no matter what he's doing at the plate.

I trust Stone knows what he's saying in terms of assessing effort. He is among the best analysts in baseball. I would like an explanation from Stoney regarding your point. Moncada OBVIOUSLY is extremely into the game when playing defense. Man, he's ready for those rockets hit at him at 3B. He's right on almost every smash to his left or right. I dunno how he is on slow rollers (I haven't noticed as much yet), but I've been amazed at his "alertness" and "reflexes" at the hot corner. I would assume to make those plays you have to be "into the game."

Edited by greg775
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I absolutely loathe the Moncada is lazy or disinterested narrative.  I am pretty disappointed with Steve Stone’s comments, but it doesn’t surprise me that a boomer has boomer-takes.

Anyone who watches Moncada on a regular basis should be able to see the effort he puts into honing his craft as a baseball player.  He takes that craft to the field and to me, it looks pretty and I love it.  The “balls-to-the-wall” style of baseball doesn’t work for him.  His style is steady.  He works his ass off to perfect his technique and trusts that technique to take care of itself on the baseball field.  

You don’t improve your defense as much as Moncada has by being lazy.  It’s literally impossible.  I 100% do not think a lazy person would bust his ass to improve on the defensive side of the game.  Maybe to hit more home runs, but not to play GG caliber defense.  The dude is also a smart baseball player, pop-ups aside, he makes good decisions on the field, and that tells me he’s also a student of the game.

Abreu looks different when he plays because he’s a different type of player.  He literally needs to go “all out” to be an average defender.  

Yes, a lot of it is natural ability, but Moncada’s defense wouldn’t be improving every year solely because of natural ability.  It would be regressing.

I personally love watching Moncada play on both sides of the game and I’ve never looked at his steady presence as disinterested or unmotivated.  I welcome it as it avoids instances such as grindy Madrigal freaking out because he has to make a quick play on a ground ball hit to him.

Every person/player is different and everyone approaches things in a different way.  Just because it doesn’t look the same, doesn’t mean it’s bad.

Stone Pony should just shut the fuck up. He should understand his own style of play had to be different because he didn’t have 1/4 of the talent Moncada has for the majority of his career.  And I highly doubt Pony has ever worked half as hard as Moncada has in an offseason.  

Moncada’s work will pay off, and when he’s playing at an elite level, it will look exactly the same as it does now, and we should commend him for it.

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Moncada seems to carry himself in a low-gear, meaning he doesn't come across as overly intense or animated. I think thats just his personality and completely unrelated to Covid. I was skeptical he'd develop into an adaquate third baseman and I'm delighted to admit I could not be more impressed with his defense at the hot corner. I also think he's capable of more at the plate but a 340-360 OBP nd 8-830 OPS plays anywhere. 

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Yoans a big partier and the organization of course knows it. Probably led to his covid last year but who knows. I think thats bleeding over to Stones comments.

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4 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I listen to games, watch only a few (don't have cable). I don't see a lot of ripping on Yoan in game threads, nor criticism on the radio broadcasts.

Does Steve Stone throw a lot of shade at Yoan Moncada during games, and do fans think Yoan doesn't play hard on a regular basis?

Not saying Yoan's efforts are on par with Jose Abreu's, don't see many across baseball who have that level of intensity. However, when I read media or posts here, listen to radio broadcasts, or watch highlights, beyond criticism at times about not calling off a fly / not listening to call outs on a fly ball, I don't see much criticism of Moncada who I really like, and feel plays hard batting and defensively. 

When I think of "lack of effort" or "interest", I think of a player like Javier Baez, great at times, totally uninterested at others. I don't see any current Sox player in the same light, including Yoan. Watching more games last year when they were televised on WGN, and seeing highlights and on broadcasts, I felt Yoan was busting his ass while gutting out terrible COVID symptoms last season.

 Not trying to have a discussion about Yoan vs. Jose, but rather does Steve Stone have valid criticism of Yoan in terms of having a "lack of effort and interest" during ballgames on a regular basis?

 

So Stone admonishes Moncada for being too aggressive in claiming fly balls and then admonishes Moncada for a lack of effort. Got it. 

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Stoney also criticized Yoan earlier in the week for not getting to second on a blooper.  Thing is he would have been out by 30 feet if he busted it out of the box.

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3 hours ago, almagest said:

Normally I like Stone but this is needless drama. Yoan is having a fine season.

Stone and needless drama? He would never.

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Posted (edited)

Swagger, or emotion, are not very indicative of this issue, one way or the other. There are lots of things that go into being one's best, on the field, which we fans never see. As fans, we are not privy to things such as studying pitchers, but they can be very important in determining the results on the field. One thing no one has mentioned is his lack of attempted steals. It is understandable that his bout with Covid, sapped his energy, last year, and there is the issue of taking the bat out of Jose's hands, by vacating first base, with Abreu on deck. However, a guy with his speed, who is not hitting for much power, might be expected to have attempted at least a few steals, especially with all of the walks that he has received. I had great expectations that he would develop into a dual offensive threat of power and speed. but so far, that hasn't been part of his game. Perhaps it doesn't have anything to do with the issue which we are discussing, but it's worth considering.

Regarding Steve Stone: One's opinion of Stone is really not all that relevant here. It seems like that old trope about "shooting the messenger". Either this criticism of Moncada is valid, or it isn't. Unless, there is some disingenuous motive to Stone's comments, perhaps we should not try to reduce this discussion down to our respective opinions regarding our TV color broadcaster. The issue here is; Is Moncada giving sufficient effort to his game, or isn't he. 

Edited by Lillian
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Really appreciate everyone’s responses. Steve typically provides excellent analysis, including thoughtful criticism when warranted, though typically conveyed in a measured low key manner during a game or on his Score appearances.

However, I was shocked by the tweets today, did not think they were consistent with how others felt regarding Yoan’s commitment or effort, including the well deserved and widespread praise Yoan received last season for his efforts gutting out plays and games last season.

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we saw this coming miles away

when he should have been focused on reaching the next level of his baseball career, he decided to make a music video.

He's going to never reach that high potential. He'll be good just based off talent, but he's fine keeping it at that level. 

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4 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

we saw this coming miles away

when he should have been focused on reaching the next level of his baseball career, he decided to make a music video.

He's going to never reach that high potential. He'll be good just based off talent, but he's fine keeping it at that level. 

Hot takes a flying right here.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

we saw this coming miles away

when he should have been focused on reaching the next level of his baseball career, he decided to make a music video.

He's going to never reach that high potential. He'll be good just based off talent, but he's fine keeping it at that level. 

And, he'll be a very rich man, while doing so. Maybe having made all of that money, in his early 20's isn't a problem, but it's not implausible.

Edited by Lillian

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1 hour ago, Sambuca said:

I absolutely loathe the Moncada is lazy or disinterested narrative.  I am pretty disappointed with Steve Stone’s comments, but it doesn’t surprise me that a boomer has boomer-takes.

Anyone who watches Moncada on a regular basis should be able to see the effort he puts into honing his craft as a baseball player.  He takes that craft to the field and to me, it looks pretty and I love it.  The “balls-to-the-wall” style of baseball doesn’t work for him.  His style is steady.  He works his ass off to perfect his technique and trusts that technique to take care of itself on the baseball field.  

You don’t improve your defense as much as Moncada has by being lazy.  It’s literally impossible.  I 100% do not think a lazy person would bust his ass to improve on the defensive side of the game.  Maybe to hit more home runs, but not to play GG caliber defense.  The dude is also a smart baseball player, pop-ups aside, he makes good decisions on the field, and that tells me he’s also a student of the game.

Abreu looks different when he plays because he’s a different type of player.  He literally needs to go “all out” to be an average defender.  

Yes, a lot of it is natural ability, but Moncada’s defense wouldn’t be improving every year solely because of natural ability.  It would be regressing.

I personally love watching Moncada play on both sides of the game and I’ve never looked at his steady presence as disinterested or unmotivated.  I welcome it as it avoids instances such as grindy Madrigal freaking out because he has to make a quick play on a ground ball hit to him.

Every person/player is different and everyone approaches things in a different way.  Just because it doesn’t look the same, doesn’t mean it’s bad.

Stone Pony should just shut the fuck up. He should understand his own style of play had to be different because he didn’t have 1/4 of the talent Moncada has for the majority of his career.  And I highly doubt Pony has ever worked half as hard as Moncada has in an offseason.  

Moncada’s work will pay off, and when he’s playing at an elite level, it will look exactly the same as it does now, and we should commend him for it.

Stone didn’t have 1/4th of Moncado’s talent? Abreu has to go all out to be average? 

Great points. Unlike Stone and all the boomers, I’m certain you will continue to learn more about baseball and not less as you get older. 
 

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Posted (edited)

Let’s not forget he was naturally a SS.

Then a failed 2B.

Then 3B, three positional changes.

 

Screams laziness and lack of will to win.  Did he ever complain?  Remember, he was the top prospect in the sport 2016/17.  Naturally, anyone would find it east to get to their head a little.  Then he had one season he was so bad from the RH side many wanted him to give up switch hitting.   Then he was too patient early in the count, took too many pitches, etc.

Then he had that year of getting screwed over on something like 30-40 strike three’s.

No it’s that he has 30/30 or 40/40 talent but not a natural basestealer or gets banged up too much running and especially diving or sliding into bsses.

Edited by caulfield12
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4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Let’s not forget he was naturally a SS.

Then a failed 2B.

Then 3B, three positional changes.

 

Screams laziness and lack of will to win.  Did he ever complain?  Remember, he was the top prospect in the sport 2016/17.  Naturally, anyone would find it east to get to their head a little.  Then he had one season he was so bad from the RH side many wanted him to give up switch hitting.   Then he was too patient early in the count, took too many pitches, etc.

Then he had that year of getting screwed over on something like 30-40 strike three’s.

No it’s that he has 30/30 or 40/40 talent but not a natural basestealer or gets banged up too much running and especially diving or sliding into bsses.

Sounds more like you are making points for the critics. "Not a natural base stealer". So, he isn't going to put in the work to learn to become something, at which he isn't already so gifted that he can't accomplish it, just on his talent. "He gets banged up too much running and sliding...."  Oh, so sorry. We wouldn't want him to get any burns or bruises, from sliding, would we? You may want to reconsider your argument. Those points aren't very convincing. Look, I admire the guy's talent and hope that he becomes a super star. So far, however, he definitely isn't. 

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Beware the world of the White Sox word warriors. Wile E. Steve strikes again. 

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