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Heyman: Sox interested in someone on some team. Nightengale: *nods*

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Just as a general comment, Moncada being wed to 3rd base til death does he part is probably a little bit over the top. Players move around based on team needs. Or, the good ones can. No reason he doesn’t move around like Kris Bryant etc if the Sox would benefit. I don’t understand the mentality around him. If Burger ever became a legit 3rd baseman, Moncada in the outfield basically solves all our problems for example. If the guy is too fragile to be a team player, he aint that good.

Moncada was pretty bad at 2B and is good at 3B.  Why mess with a good thing?  Why move Yoan off of his best position so a lesser player can play there?  That seems silly to me.

Edited by Tnetennba
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2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Moncada was pretty bad at 2B and is good at 3B.  Why mess with a good thing?  Why move Yoan so a lesser player can play there?  That seems silly to me.

For this season, why not? 

The team is in desperate need to get more offense in there.    If that's by plugging Burger (or anyone else) at 3B and moving Mocada to 2B, then go do it.

It's no like we're relocating Mike Schmidt here.  

Nothing is owed to Moncada.  If the Sox feel they can find a good enough bat to plug in at 3B and move Moncada to 2B, Sox need to explore every option. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, aeichhor said:

 

 

Jesus Christ, this guy says a whole lot of nothing using way too many characters. 

 

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3 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

For this season, why not? 

The team is in desperate need to get more offense in there.    If that's by plugging Burger (or anyone else) at 3B and moving Mocada to 2B, then go do it.

It's no like we're relocating Mike Schmidt here.  

Nothing is owed to Moncada.  If the Sox feel they can find a good enough bat to plug in at 3B and move Moncada to 2B, Sox need to explore every option. 

 

 

The problem is there’s no guarantee the defensive falloff at two positions will offset the increased offense.

We’ll already putting stress on our starting pitchers, as is..leading, or close to leading the league in errors.

Then you’re talking about another guy like Vaughn who murders lefties but might be 675-725 ops against righties, best case scenario.

Then you’re also expecting Moncada 1) not to get injured playing in the middle of the diamond, and 2) not to let defensive struggles affect the offensive side of his game.

Lots of risks to this kind of desperation move.  To me, it has the potential to backfire more than Vaughn in the outfield.  That said, it’s unlikely Burger would be ready to play big league 2B everyday...and we can’t afford on the job training in a must make the playoffs with Rodon and Lynn year.

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36 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think Yoan has made it pretty clear he is quite fragile, in a number of ways.  He's a good 3B and a well above average player.  Just leave him alone.  Some guys can be used all over, some can't.  We don't know that he can't, but he strikes me as a guy that should just be left alone.  He's already been moved from 2B to 3B and hasn't made an appearance elsewhere since, so I wouldn't expect that to change any time soon. 

In that case, as soon as Burger became ready at 3rd, Moncada should be available in trades.

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Let’s not forget...the Tigers have 3/5ths of a really solid future rotation with Manning up and pitching well, add Greene/Torkelson and they’re suddenly a real threat for 2022, especially if the Indians deal Ramirez, Bieber or their two backend relievers.  They have been playing .500 or better ball for the better part of 4-6 weeks now.  At one point, they had a worse record than Balt, Colorado, AZ and Pitt.

If they have any sense that both Jimenez and Robert will be close to 100% this year, it might be as good an opportunity as they get with the Yankees down as well and the entire AL wide open.

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3 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

In that case, as soon as Burger became ready at 3rd, Moncada should be available in trades.

lol wat?

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Just now, Chick Mercedes said:

In that case, as soon as Burger became ready at 3rd, Moncada should be available in trades.

Why are you trading, at least one of the 10-15 best players in MLB at the peak of our competitive window to give the position who’s another major injury from having to retire, and who’s only one year younger?

Not to mention those huge prospect haul trades are just not out there in June/July.  They usually take multiple teams or an entire offseason to put together.

Can’t even recall the last one...where a playoff contending team traded a young potentially star player for prospects, even close to major league ready ones.

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24 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Moncada was pretty bad at 2B and is good at 3B.  Why mess with a good thing?  Why move Yoan off of his best position so a lesser player can play there?  That seems silly to me.

You’re describing a limited asset. One that has less homers than our shortstop btw. I certainly would not build my team around him at third base. His career accomplishments does not dictate it. I’d mess with it in a heartbeat if I could bet a good corner outfielder for him as long as the Sox can get a WAR player at third base to replace him. If he cannot move he becomes an expenable.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why are you trading, at least one of the 10-15 best players in MLB at the peak of our competitive window to give the position who’s another major injury from having to retire, and who’s only one year younger?

Not to mention those huge prospect haul trades are just not out there in June/July.  They usually take multiple teams or an entire offseason to put together.

Can’t even recall the last one...where a playoff contending team traded a young potentially star player for prospects, even close to major league ready ones.

Doesn’t mean Burger specifically. Just as a general comment, as soon as the Sox had a 3rd base prospect WAR guy.  Never said anything about a prospect trade. But a ML banger in RF? Very considerable.

Edited by Chick Mercedes
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

lol wat?

Haha yeah. It is equally funny that he is considered some kind of untouchable given his uneven career, and positional limitations. As well as the needs of the team going forward.

Edited by Chick Mercedes
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17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why are you trading, at least one of the 10-15 best players in MLB at the peak of our competitive window to give the position who’s another major injury from having to retire, and who’s only one year younger?

Not to mention those huge prospect haul trades are just not out there in June/July.  They usually take multiple teams or an entire offseason to put together.

Can’t even recall the last one...where a playoff contending team traded a young potentially star player for prospects, even close to major league ready ones.

Do you really consider Moncada among the top 10-15 players in MLB?

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21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why are you trading, at least one of the 10-15 best players in MLB at the peak of our competitive window to give the position who’s another major injury from having to retire, and who’s only one year younger?

Not to mention those huge prospect haul trades are just not out there in June/July.  They usually take multiple teams or an entire offseason to put together.

Can’t even recall the last one...where a playoff contending team traded a young potentially star player for prospects, even close to major league ready ones.

???

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8 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Haha yeah. It is equally funny that he is considered some kind of untouchable given his uneven career, and positional limitations. As well as the needs of the team going forward.

Well, generally speaking, trading top 3-5 MLB 3B, SS’s and 2B for corner outfielders/1B/DH types has never been a recipe for sustained success.

Obviously, you’re putting more importance on his home run numbers than anything else like fWAR, doubles, walks or defensive ratings, but we could do the same thing with Luis Robert’s first month of 2021.

Neither player could be traded to get anything comparable back to their value to the Sox.  Jimenez has his obvious positional limitations and Anderson isn’t going to be dealt, either. 

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17 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

You’re describing a limited asset. One that has less homers than our shortstop btw. I certainly would not build my team around him at third base. His career accomplishments does not dictate it. I’d mess with it in a heartbeat if I could bet a good corner outfielder for him as long as the Sox can get a WAR player at third base to replace him. If he cannot move he becomes an expenable.

Good luck with that. 

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Why is this even a discussion?

You just don't trade players like Yoan unless you are rebuilding.

Like WTF are you guys even thinking that promote it?

You'd have to trade Yoan to a contender and they'd have to give some high quality pieces back and it's such a nuisance of a trade that it's just not fathomable. 

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Posted (edited)

tenor.gif

Edit: this ended being extremely unfortunate timing w the above post. This is regarding trading Yoan.

Edited by YoYoIsMyHero

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5 minutes ago, Flash said:

Do you really consider Moncada among the top 10-15 players in MLB?

fWAR does.

#17.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0

I’m sure we would have a huge debate if it was suggested we acquire Jesse Winker (the next on the FG list behind him) for Moncada straight up...as Winker plays a decent outfield, more control/cheaper and has put up massive offensive numbers this season.

If Jimenez, Robert and Madrigal were all in the everyday lineup, we wouldn’t even be considering this.

And that #17 is down after two major errors and a mini slump in recent weeks.  He was all the way up around an 870 ops.

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26 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why are you trading, at least one of the 10-15 best players in MLB at the peak of our competitive window to give the position who’s another major injury from having to retire, and who’s only one year younger?

Not to mention those huge prospect haul trades are just not out there in June/July.  They usually take multiple teams or an entire offseason to put together.

Can’t even recall the last one...where a playoff contending team traded a young potentially star player for prospects, even close to major league ready ones.

Although I'm not suggesting that the Sox trade Moncada, I really doubt that he is one of the 10 to 15 best players in the Majors. Not unless one considers OBP the most important stat. Maybe if he were playing like the guy we saw in 2019, but not based upon what he's done since the beginning of last year. 

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1 minute ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

tenor.gif

Edit: this ended being extremely unfortunate timing w the above post. This is regarding trading Yoan.

My bad man, I didn'tmean to set you up. Was gonna message you about it just in case you didn't see it. 

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I think that the Cuban players that are part of the core of this team should be kept intact unless and until there is an obvious need to trade one of them. I don't see a need to move Moncada. He is a great third basemen and still has a high ceiling offensively. There is a lot to be said for loyalty to these players including the recruitment of other Cuban players like Cespedes and Oscar Colas.

Burger as an infielder?  Fielding ground balls appears to be his Achilles heel.

 

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1 minute ago, Lillian said:

Although I'm not suggesting that the Sox trade Moncada, I really doubt that he is one of the 10 to 15 best players in the Majors. Not unless one considers OBP the most important stat. Maybe if he were playing like the guy we saw in 2019, but not based upon what he's done since the beginning of last year. 

Sure, in the olden days, Escobar with his 17 homers and 51 RBIs would be getting a lot more attention than Moncada.

Grandal would be getting absolutely blistered...like Dunn did in 2011.

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1 minute ago, tray said:

 

I think that the Cuban players that are part of the core of this team should be kept intact unless and until there is an obvious need to trade one of them. I don't see a need to move Moncada. He is a great third basemen and still has a high ceiling offensively. There is a lot to be said for loyalty to these players including the recruitment of other Cuban players like Cespedes and Oscar Colas.

Burger as an infielder?  Fielding ground balls appears to be his Achilles heel.

 

He has a had a huge weight loss and was considered nearly a Gold Glove level collegian, very strong arm, etc.  A pregame warm-up where he didn’t look 100% focused is not the right way to effectively scout a player...certainly not the player he actually is in 2021.

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