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The Grandal will come out tomorrow, you can bet your bottom dollar

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Just now, Blackout Friday said:

Well, you can. Every team does, to an extent. 

It depends on what you mean by "plan".  Yes all teams trying to maximize the level of talent and depth they have in a system.  No, there will never be a team who is 2-3 players deep in starting level talent on a roster.  Between the limitations of a 26 and a 40 man roster, it is impossible to keep this depth of talent.  Once you get past your starters you WILL see a significant fall off in talent.  Once your back ups get hurt you WILL see another significant fall off in talent to your #3 depth guys.  Yes, everyone wanted the Sox to add more players in this off season, but realize at one point the Sox started their #7, #8, and #9 OFs on their depth chart.  Literally no organization in professional sports will have good player at that depth.

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12 minutes ago, Blackout Friday said:

Well, you can. Every team does, to an extent. 

No they don't. The get a capable backup or 2. No one acquires enough players planning for nearly half the lineup for half a season. 

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1 minute ago, Blackout Friday said:

This forum has gone from a beacon of white Sox discussion to an absolute black hole. Lol lol best of luck. 

You're making terrible arguments about depth when it has been a strength of the team this year. Don't accuse everyone else of being a black hole.

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3 minutes ago, Blackout Friday said:

This forum has gone from a beacon of white Sox discussion to an absolute black hole. Lol lol best of luck. 

That's one funny way of saying, I didn't get my way, so I am taking my ball and going home.

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42 minutes ago, Blackout Friday said:

This forum has gone from a beacon of white Sox discussion to an absolute black hole. Lol lol best of luck. 

Contribute to the good, make light of the poop.

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4 hours ago, SpringfieldFan said:

The lineup that this team hopes to take through the playoffs, and wants to leverage to its maximum potentential, has been put on the field how many times this year? Once or twice maybe?

 

Exactly zero times.  Closest we got was when Engel, Lu, and Eloy all returned and were playing but we were missing still missing Yas.

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10 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

LOL - still on that Grandal hate train despite the fact its become so so so so abundantly clear the last 7 weeks how important he is to this team?  

LMAO, the only "hate train" is in your mirror. You crowed about Grandal catching 120 + games this offseason, despite the fact that:

  • He averaged under 100 games caught prior to coming here.
  • He barely beat out McCann last season in games caught (32 to 27 + 1 Collins start).
  • The two best young pitchers continue to reject him, opting for inexperienced poor back ups.
  • The Sox record with or without players were discussed last week, and Grandal is the weakest link.
7 hours ago, pcq said:

He may not be a full-time catcher at this point.

^ This.

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Whether you like Grandal or not, he is going to have to start 100% of post season games if we are to have any chance at a championship.  When he comes back from his rehab stint, play him every other game (at most) until Octobet ad Savala and Collins have both proven to be way below average both offensively and defensively.  Neither can see playing time in the postseason and we need to do everything possible to make sure this is the case.

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14 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

LMAO, the only "hate train" is in your mirror. You crowed about Grandal catching 120 + games this offseason, despite the fact that:

  • He averaged under 100 games caught prior to coming here.
  • He barely beat out McCann last season in games caught (32 to 27 + 1 Collins start).
  • The two best young pitchers continue to reject him, opting for inexperienced poor back ups.
  • The Sox record with or without players were discussed last week, and Grandal is the weakest link.

^ This.

Lol.  I "crowed" about Grandal catching 120+ games this year because is he is one the best 2-3 catchers in the game.   It sucks he's had knee issues this year.  Shit happens.  Doens't change the fact that this team is far far far far better with Yasmani catching and in the lineup as opposed to not.  No amount of bullet points you make up to try to prove your dumbass point is going to change that. 

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Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Lol.  I "crowed" about Grandal catching 120+ games this year because is he is one the best 2-3 catchers in the game.   It sucks he's had knee issues this year.  Shit happens.  Doens't change the fact that this team is far far far far better with Yasmani catching and in the lineup as opposed to not.  No amount of bullet points you make up to try to prove your dumbass point is going to change that. 

And no amount of crying and backtracking doesn't make up the fact that Grandal is a part time catcher, he is in his 30s and will never come close to catching 120 in a season as a White Sox. Crowing he is a better option than Hahn's other shitty three alternatives, hell even Nick can't limbo under that low bar / threshold.

Plenty of other options entering that offseason, Hahn went all in on a guy who will be lucky to average 70 games a season, or hit above .220 when all is said and done. Sees the crap he has and doesn't pick up another guy at the deadline to fill in for yet another failed first round draft pick.

 

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Lol.  I "crowed" about Grandal catching 120+ games this year because is he is one the best 2-3 catchers in the game.   It sucks he's had knee issues this year.  Shit happens.  Doens't change the fact that this team is far far far far better with Yasmani catching and in the lineup as opposed to not.  No amount of bullet points you make up to try to prove your dumbass point is going to change that. 

There was a recent game where TLR sent the runner on first base with a full count on Abreu.  Jose swung at a bad pitch and struck out.  The person you are currently arguing with called it a "hit and run" and said that Jose swung because he had to protect the hit and run. It was one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this message board, and all of his posts now have zero credibility to me.

What does that have to do with Grandal, you might ask?  Absolutely nothing.  But you might not want to waste your time arguing with him.

Edited by SoxBlanco
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2 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

There was a recent game where TLR sent the runner on first base with a full count on Abreu.  Jose swung at a bad pitch and struck out.  The person you are currently arguing with called it a "hit and run" and said that Jose swung because he had to protect the hit and run. It was one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this message board, and all if his posts now have zero credibility to me.

What does that have to do with Grandal, you might ask?  Absolutely nothing.  But you might not want to waste your time arguing with him.

I figured that out a long time ago. His takes on Grandal are just so bad I can’t help myself.

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15 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

And no amount of crying and backtracking doesn't make up the fact that Grandal is a part time catcher, he is in his 30s and will never come close to catching 120 in a season as a White Sox. Crowing he is a better option than Hahn's other shitty three alternatives, hell even Nick can't limbo under that low bar / threshold.

Plenty of other options entering that offseason, Hahn went all in on a guy who will be lucky to average 70 games a season, or hit above .220 when all is said and done. Sees the crap he has and doesn't pick up another guy at the deadline to fill in for yet another failed first round draft pick.

 

Average 70 games a season? Dude has never played under 115 games in a regulation season since he was 25 and averaged 132 GP from 2014-19 all while in the NL without a DH. Yes he played some 1B. No he didn’t play a lot of it. Yes he’s in his 30s and probably can’t catch as much as Milwaukee used him in 19, but he can still easily be more than a “part time catcher”. Players deal with nagging injuries some seasons. Yaz has this entire season. It’s unfortunate, but doesn’t mean that’s the way it’s going to be for the rest of his career. 

And batting average is irrelevant for Grandal. Stop using it. But please do give us some more bullet points to explain to us common folk us why the Sox should have beat the Mets $40M offer on McCann (who is also on the IL), and his wrC+ of 83 but also tell us how terrible Grandal and his 135 wRC+ are. You’ve lost all ability to be rational on this topic, tho not sure you ever had it.

FWIW - I also would have brought in someone like Gomes at the deadline. Not because he’s better than Grandal or should take playing time away from him. But because Zavala and Collins will be lucky to sniff the big leagues again after 2021. They’re terrible and Yasmani was hurt. The second Yaz is able to play, he should play as much as his body allows him. The fact that he’s not back yet is insane to me. I don’t care if he can only catch 3-4 days a week. Such an improvement on the current situation. 

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21 hours ago, Blackout Friday said:

That’s sports. I guess you could lump me in it now? 
I think Hahn and co. Do a great job. I think they could have built a better base against injury. It worked out great, but Billy the hitter and b-good were kind of gifted. That’s all. Credit for picking them up, but risky to bet on it. 

I think the primary point being made here, which I agree with, is that this strategy is the same one the Sox have been deploying for years which led to miserable additions mid-season and even early season. Those players fell flat and the season spiraled. While the strategy worked this time because for once those players performed beyond expectations, it's simply not a process that should be applauded as over the duration of a large sample it has been a failure.

I tend to agree with this; I was critical of the depth in the off-season, and while much of my criticism was on the pitching front (where they've been incredibly lucky health wise), there were still some concerns on position player depth given the injury history of their core. Eloy and Robert weren't exactly a beacon of good health, Moncada had his nagging injuries and Tim has been known to miss some time. That doesn't even account for Madrigal who is gone. The Sox didn't plan well for this, BUT it worked out. The process can be poor and the results good, those two things are not dependent on each other.

The Sox were playing Nick Williams in April and they needed, as you noted, to move Vaughn to a position he's never played in his life just to cover their ass. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, but in the long run you'd rather be good than lucky.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Average 70 games a season? Dude has never played under 115 games in a regulation season since he was 25 and averaged 132 GP from 2014-19 all while in the NL without a DH. Yes he played some 1B. No he didn’t play a lot of it. Yes he’s in his 30s and probably can’t catch as much as Milwaukee used him in 19, but he can still easily be more than a “part time catcher”. Players deal with nagging injuries some seasons. Yaz has this entire season. It’s unfortunate, but doesn’t mean that’s the way it’s going to be for the rest of his career. 

And batting average is irrelevant for Grandal. Stop using it. But please do give us some more bullet points to explain to us common folk us why the Sox should have beat the Mets $40M offer on McCann (who is also on the IL), and his wrC+ of 83 but also tell us how terrible Grandal and his 135 wRC+ are. You’ve lost all ability to be rational on this topic, tho not sure you ever had it.

FWIW - I also would have brought in someone like Gomes at the deadline. Not because he’s better than Grandal or should take playing time away from him. But because Zavala and Collins will be lucky to sniff the big leagues again after 2021. They’re terrible and Yasmani was hurt. The second Yaz is able to play, he should play as much as his body allows him. The fact that he’s not back yet is insane to me. I don’t care if he can only catch 3-4 days a week. Such an improvement on the current situation. 

Dude, it’s 70 games caught, and it has nothing to do with McCann, he got Cohen Mets funny money I wouldn’t have paid either (years or AAV).

The point this entire time is the club had far more pressing needs than attempting to upgrade at catcher for $76m, despite the fact they had three holes in the rotation, and an annual hole in RF that remains open.

It’s poor roster management and allocation of resources. If the Sox have a much higher payroll than when he signed ($127m, or 15%), it won’t be as an egregious hit.

Would still rather they carry two decent catchers, than dedicate so much to an aged catcher, with his worth primarily locked into walking in front of a shitty bottom third of the order, and pitch framing, a combo not enticing enough to make Lucas or Rodon want to throw to him. He was never on pace for 120 games since the two young aces rejected him outright, and split time with McCann in a short season.

Ironically, I have Grandal in the SoxTalk fantasy league not as my starter as I have Will Smith who is better (and this is an OPS league), but as a backup for C and 1B. 

Edited by South Side Hit Men
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On 8/23/2021 at 9:18 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

LMAO, the only "hate train" is in your mirror. You crowed about Grandal catching 120 + games this offseason, despite the fact that:

  • He averaged under 100 games caught prior to coming here.
  • He barely beat out McCann last season in games caught (32 to 27 + 1 Collins start).
  • The two best young pitchers continue to reject him, opting for inexperienced poor back ups.
  • The Sox record with or without players were discussed last week, and Grandal is the weakest link.

^ This.

It’s so funny to see you still defending this little “120 game” hill all by yourself.  😆

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12 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

And no amount of crying and backtracking doesn't make up the fact that Grandal is a part time catcher, he is in his 30s and will never come close to catching 120 in a season as a White Sox. Crowing he is a better option than Hahn's other shitty three alternatives, hell even Nick can't limbo under that low bar / threshold.

Plenty of other options entering that offseason, Hahn went all in on a guy who will be lucky to average 70 games a season, or hit above .220 when all is said and done. Sees the crap he has and doesn't pick up another guy at the deadline to fill in for yet another failed first round draft pick.

 

Imagine watching what sox fans have watched the past 6 weeks and still batching about grandal. Truly amazing.

And I'll take grandal over 70 games for the max next year. 

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26 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Imagine watching what sox fans have watched the past 6 weeks and still batching about grandal. Truly amazing.

And I'll take grandal over 70 games for the max next year. 

Not sure what you've been watching. I watched The Field Of Dreams, the Sox acquire a HOF reliever, the one you have been non stop batching about even though he has a higher fWAR than Mr. fWAR himself, despite the fact "relievers have minimal impact." 

I've also watched the Sox nearly double their lead in the division from six to ten games since Grandal left us once again, with Seby Zavala emerging to take the reins of the staff and lead them to a 16-9 .640 record in his starts. Sadly, Seby has suffered the wrath of Crony LR last night, and may never be seen again. 

You know what I haven't seen the past six weeks? Grandal playing a single game for the White Sox. I heard a lot of bragging about Grandal having the fastest recovery in the history of mankind, 2-3 weeks, as though a televangelist touched his leg and he was miraculously healed and ready to dance. Yet seven weeks later, despite all of the hype, the recovery has turned out to be as slow as Grandal.

Godspeed Yasmani, Godspeed.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I think the primary point being made here, which I agree with, is that this strategy is the same one the Sox have been deploying for years which led to miserable additions mid-season and even early season. Those players fell flat and the season spiraled. While the strategy worked this time because for once those players performed beyond expectations, it's simply not a process that should be applauded as over the duration of a large sample it has been a failure.

I tend to agree with this; I was critical of the depth in the off-season, and while much of my criticism was on the pitching front (where they've been incredibly lucky health wise), there were still some concerns on position player depth given the injury history of their core. Eloy and Robert weren't exactly a beacon of good health, Moncada had his nagging injuries and Tim has been known to miss some time. That doesn't even account for Madrigal who is gone. The Sox didn't plan well for this, BUT it worked out. The process can be poor and the results good, those two things are not dependent on each other.

The Sox were playing Nick Williams in April and they needed, as you noted, to move Vaughn to a position he's never played in his life just to cover their ass. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, but in the long run you'd rather be good than lucky.

I hope the Sox win the World Series for many reasons.

Among them...

(1) Reinsdorf hopefully goes away especially if he can't get buy-in on a 2022 work stoppage like he did in 1994 and almost destroyed MLB. 

(2) TLR has his Cooperstown plaque updated and goes away.

(3) Some owner is dumb enough to make Hahn President or EVP of baseball operations and he goes away.

(This one is least likely since Hahn's legacy is already cemented with FTJR for Shields.)

 

Edited by GradMc

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2 hours ago, GradMc said:

I hope the Sox win the World Series for many reasons.

Among them...

(1) Reinsdorf hopefully goes away especially if he can't get buy-in on a 2022 work stoppage like he did in 1994 and almost destroyed MLB. 

(2) TLR has his Cooperstown plaque updated and goes away.

(3) Some owner is dumb enough to make Hahn President or EVP of baseball operations and he goes away.

(This one is least likely since Hahn's legacy is already cemented with FTJR for Shields.)

 

Speaking of dumb enough and needing to go away...

Hahn got the chance to do the rebuild he had been trying to convince the organization to do for years,  is about to make the playoffs for back to back years, with a young and locked up core, and no competition close... but all you care about is Tatis.

The Sox are 1st by 10 games, but this is what you think about?  

How miserable. 

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20 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

And no amount of crying and backtracking doesn't make up the fact that Grandal is a part time catcher, he is in his 30s and will never come close to catching 120 in a season as a White Sox. Crowing he is a better option than Hahn's other shitty three alternatives, hell even Nick can't limbo under that low bar / threshold.

Plenty of other options entering that offseason, Hahn went all in on a guy who will be lucky to average 70 games a season, or hit above .220 when all is said and done. Sees the crap he has and doesn't pick up another guy at the deadline to fill in for yet another failed first round draft pick.

 

yan gomes is a free agent

 

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4 hours ago, GradMc said:

I hope the Sox win the World Series for many reasons.

Among them...

(1) Reinsdorf hopefully goes away especially if he can't get buy-in on a 2022 work stoppage like he did in 1994 and almost destroyed MLB. 

(2) TLR has his Cooperstown plaque updated and goes away.

(3) Some owner is dumb enough to make Hahn President or EVP of baseball operations and he goes away.

(This one is least likely since Hahn's legacy is already cemented with FTJR for Shields.)

 

Actually, I hope all these idiots lead the Sox to a dynasty and multiple World Series titles first (purely ironically, of course) then go away.  That would be hilarious and really cement their shit legacies.

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7 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Not sure what you've been watching. I watched The Field Of Dreams, the Sox acquire a HOF reliever, the one you have been non stop batching about even though he has a higher fWAR than Mr. fWAR himself, despite the fact "relievers have minimal impact." 

I've also watched the Sox nearly double their lead in the division from six to ten games since Grandal left us once again, with Seby Zavala emerging to take the reins of the staff and lead them to a 16-9 .640 record in his starts. Sadly, Seby has suffered the wrath of Crony LR last night, and may never be seen again. 

You know what I haven't seen the past six weeks? Grandal playing a single game for the White Sox. I heard a lot of bragging about Grandal having the fastest recovery in the history of mankind, 2-3 weeks, as though a televangelist touched his leg and he was miraculously healed and ready to dance. Yet seven weeks later, despite all of the hype, the recovery has turned out to be as slow as Grandal.

Godspeed Yasmani, Godspeed.

This is such cherry picking. The Sox have played .500 ball since the ASG. Just a couple days following when Yaz went down. They have not been good without him. This also includes major reinforcements during that time in Eloy and Robert. Seby and Collins have both been terrible on both sides of the ball. The Sox offense has mostly sputtered. What are you even arguing here? Do you not have eyes? Do you actually watch the games or just craft bullet points in anticipation of the next days Soxtalk post? The Sox have doubled their lead in the division because the Indians fell apart. Not because the Sox are playing good baseball since Grandal got hurt. This isn’t rocket science.

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