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Is it time to give TLR his due? And maybe some apologies?


ron883
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On 7/9/2021 at 6:03 PM, greg775 said:

So with all your points, at least admit no managers have an effect on a team unless they are buffoons like Bevington. Who would be a better manager than LaRussa in your mind? You know ... the great Joe Maddon was a god (small g) with the Cubs, then a buffoon with the same team.

Tony LaRussa is not a buffoon. He is excellent and as good as any manager out there to be in charge of this team. I can accept your fact Tony has little to nothing to do with the success of the team, but if I accept that u must accept that NO MANAGER has anything this year to do with the success of his team. No manager. If they are not buffoons like Bevington, they are all about the same.

I'd give Tony an A for his performance this season. What would you give him? C? D? F even?

Yes, it seems like most on here believe the manager doesn't matter as long as you mentioned they are not  a buffoon.  The truth is that people personally don't like TLR so they are incapable of giving him any credit for the team's success.  Bringing up DUIs and stuff like that makes no sense either.  How something irrelevant like that enters a discussion on how he is managing this team is puzzling.  I was indifferent about his hiring and was actually in favor of them hiring Hinch.  However, TLR has done a great job and the only people who can't admit that are those that have some sort of personal issue with him.

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42 minutes ago, RG23SoxFan said:

Yes, it seems like most on here believe the manager doesn't matter as long as you mentioned they are not  a buffoon.  The truth is that people personally don't like TLR so they are incapable of giving him any credit for the team's success.  Bringing up DUIs and stuff like that makes no sense either.  How something irrelevant like that enters a discussion on how he is managing this team is puzzling.  I was indifferent about his hiring and was actually in favor of them hiring Hinch.  However, TLR has done a great job and the only people who can't admit that are those that have some sort of personal issue with him.

Is there a way to quantify the impact La Russa has had on the team and their success this year? I watch these games and don’t know how much credit he deserves for the team’s overall performance. He can make pitching changes, substitutions and lineups, but I don’t know if you can credit him with wins because of his decisions. I’d have to look back to see if anything he did paid off and led the team to a win. I can separate my thoughts and opinions about him with his DUIs, but I don’t know how much credit La Russa deserves for the success they have had this year.

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24 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Is there a way to quantify the impact La Russa has had on the team and their success this year? I watch these games and don’t know how much credit he deserves for the team’s overall performance. He can make pitching changes, substitutions and lineups, but I don’t know if you can credit him with wins because of his decisions. I’d have to look back to see if anything he did paid off and led the team to a win. I can separate my thoughts and opinions about him with his DUIs, but I don’t know how much credit La Russa deserves for the success they have had this year.

I honestly don't know of any analytics specific to managers.  It seems like the team's win/loss record indicates how well the manager is doing.  I guess it boils down to whether someone believes a manager makes much of a difference or not.  It seems like most on here think the players deserve most or all the credit and the manager makes little to no difference.  It's good you are able to separate what you think of him as a person versus a manager as most on here are incapable of doing that.

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4 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Jimenez said “sometimes it made me sad” to watch the White Sox while he was out, just because he missed it all so much.

His interactions with La Russa, 76, have been “really, really good,” Jimenez said. “He helped me a lot. He was always there for me, he supported me and said, ‘Just be smart.’ I’ve talked to the guys, and they say it’s great to play for him. It’s amazing to play for Tony. I’m excited. I can’t wait to play for him.”

These quotes made my day/week/month. Such a special team and organization. I’m just going to enjoy this magic carpet ride Tony and the boys are taking us on because we are truly in a golden age. 

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The Sox current standing is a testament to the team, They decided play above the frey and I love them for it.

When these guys hit their prime, there will be no TLR and hopefully an affluent group of sportsmen comes along to keep them together.

 

 

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13 hours ago, RG23SoxFan said:

It seems like most on here think the players deserve most or all the credit and the manager makes little to no difference.

It seems like front offices believe this too, as even the highest paid managers barely make more than a bench player.

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2 hours ago, OmarComing25 said:

It seems like front offices believe this too, as even the highest paid managers barely make more than a bench player.

So if the front office and many fans believe the manager really doesn't make a difference then why is there constant complaining about TLR's managerial decisions?  If he has minimal impact on the game then the players will make the plays to win the game and it really doesn't matter what decisions he makes.

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2 hours ago, RG23SoxFan said:

So if the front office and many fans believe the manager really doesn't make a difference then why is there constant complaining about TLR's managerial decisions?  If he has minimal impact on the game then the players will make the plays to win the game and it really doesn't matter what decisions he makes.

You are a bad manager when you have a bad team. You are also a bad manager when you have a good team but every lineup, every pitching change and every time you sit a superstar or a hot prospect is questioned.

 You are only a good manager... well never in today's day and age when everyone has a platform. Only in retrospect when you manage a long time and every day decisions are forgotten and your teams keep winning because of a talented front office acquiring talented players do you know you have a HOF manager. That's why the winningest teams in baseball history like the  Yankees and Cardinals top the list of HOF managers.

 

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2 hours ago, ron883 said:

@Greg Hibbard why you don't shut your damn pie hole and stick to the thread at hand?

I figured you would avoid the question and resort to an attack like this, but I just wanted to point out to the rest of the board what a obscene hypocrite you are.

God forbid you actually take a step back and realize you’re supposed to *root* for Jose Abreu. 

Edited by Greg Hibbard
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On 7/9/2021 at 6:03 PM, greg775 said:

So with all your points, at least admit no managers have an effect on a team unless they are buffoons like Bevington. Who would be a better manager than LaRussa in your mind? You know ... the great Joe Maddon was a god (small g) with the Cubs, then a buffoon with the same team.

Tony LaRussa is not a buffoon. He is excellent and as good as any manager out there to be in charge of this team. I can accept your fact Tony has little to nothing to do with the success of the team, but if I accept that u must accept that NO MANAGER has anything this year to do with the success of his team. No manager. If they are not buffoons like Bevington, they are all about the same.

I'd give Tony an A for his performance this season. What would you give him? C? D? F even?

If Jerry Reinsdorf didn't give TLR the job, would Hahn have signed TLR? It's a pathetic joke that an arrogant JR had to make up for a huge mistake he made from 35 years ago, when he allowed Hawk Harrelson to fire TLR. 

I am not going to give a grade to TLR. This post was initiated because the poster expected us to apology to TLR for the success of this team. I will stand on my remarks and I will not apologize because TLR was handed one of the best teams in MLB. This team would be winning with many other managers. The fact we had horrific injuries along the way and then minor leaguers and rookies stepped up, has nothing to do with TLR. The credit as I said belongs to Rick Hahn for putting this team together. Talented players are expected to play. If anything I would give an "A" to Katz for handling the great pitching staff and an "A" to Frank Menechino for handling the hitters. 

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3 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

If Jerry Reinsdorf didn't give TLR the job, would Hahn have signed TLR? It's a pathetic joke that an arrogant JR had to make up for a huge mistake he made from 35 years ago, when he allowed Hawk Harrelson to fire TLR. 

I am not going to give a grade to TLR. This post was initiated because the poster expected us to apology to TLR for the success of this team. I will stand on my remarks and I will not apologize because TLR was handed one of the best teams in MLB. This team would be winning with many other managers. The fact we had horrific injuries along the way and then minor leaguers and rookies stepped up, has nothing to do with TLR. The credit as I said belongs to Rick Hahn for putting this team together. Talented players are expected to play. If anything I would give an "A" to Katz for handling the great pitching staff and an "A" to Frank Menechino for handling the hitters. 

Who hired Katz and Menechino?

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On 7/9/2021 at 10:20 AM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Please note you are responding to the same poster who just last year argued success and player production has nothing to do with the manager and all the manager did was hold the team back with poor decision making and everything was the managers fault.

1 year later and he is now arguing the exact opposite.

Players perform because they're professionals. The manager should be judged based on decisions he directly impacts and in that arena LaRussa has sucked. The team has overcome LaRussa's incompetence as a decision maker, nothing more, nothing less. LaRussa has set the organization back multiple decades with his insistence on bunting and his reluctance to shift his defense in a way that makes any sense.

Totally agree. Total players are expected to play. TLR is not a good manager. he wouldn't even be the manager of his buddy JR didn't make a dumb decision to make up for a big mistake he made 35 years ago in letting Hawk Harrelson fire TLR. A lot of competent managers could win with the team that Hahn has put together. 

For all the people here who still think TLR is the reason the Sox are winning at this success rate, is just as wrong as when the Bulls Jerry Krause told us that organizations win championships, not players.

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9 minutes ago, RibbieRubarb said:

Who hired Katz and Menechino?

Recruited by Lucas, hired by Rick Hahn. Tony didn't know the difference between Ethan Katz and Felix the Cat. 

Would have hired Dave Duncan if he didn't laugh in Tony's face and tell him to give his son a crony job instead.

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11 minutes ago, RibbieRubarb said:

Who hired Katz and Menechino?

Katz was for sure hired by Rick Hahn. It was Giolito who went to Hahn on his behalf. I am not sure , but I also think Hahn was responsible for Menechino's hire, as there wasn't any connection whatsoever between Frank and TLR. 

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6 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Recruited by Lucas, hired by Rick Hahn. Tony didn't know the difference between Ethan Katz and Felix the Cat. 

Would have hired Dave Duncan if he didn't laugh in Tony's face and tell him to give his son a crony job instead.

Sounds more like your opinion than fact. But you go with that.

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On 7/10/2021 at 9:45 PM, chitownsportsfan said:

:drink

Just another example in the lack of leadership from TLR. That message absolutely should have been given by TLR to the players. Yet again, based on how motivating it is to listen to TLR after a game, I can understand why he asked Joe to give the message. I'm sure at least Joe gave some passion in his announcement. 🙄

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On 7/10/2021 at 11:34 PM, RG23SoxFan said:

I honestly don't know of any analytics specific to managers.  It seems like the team's win/loss record indicates how well the manager is doing.  I guess it boils down to whether someone believes a manager makes much of a difference or not.  It seems like most on here think the players deserve most or all the credit and the manager makes little to no difference.  It's good you are able to separate what you think of him as a person versus a manager as most on here are incapable of doing that.

He does things on a fairly regular basis that hurt the Sox wining odds, (bunting at bad times, not positioning the defense well) but any impact he may or may not have on the teams psychology is a big ole shrug. 

 

And yes I'll always give the lions share of credit to the players because Tony, or any manager, can pull any strings they want but all that matters is if the player gets the job done. If any one of the guys Ricky called on in that debacle in Oakland came in and threw strikes, we're probably sitting here and complaining about him mishandling Hendricks right now. 

Edited by mqr
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