TheBlackSox8 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 hour ago, CeaseAndExist said: Trout is "pretty good" He's OK. Wouldn't go beyond that... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 10 hours ago, CeaseAndExist said: Again, Moncada has the 3rd most WAR of any 3B since 2019, behind only Bregman and Rendon. He is an elite 3B, I'm not sure how anyone could say otherwise. Saying he's a "decent player" is like saying Trout is "pretty good" This. And only this, really. Let’s start a new thread. Topic: Chicago is not a large American city. I’ll get us started: I know this is true because New York is bigger. And I was expecting Chicago to be bigger. And a bunch of people promised me it would be big, and when I look at it a few times a year it just doesn’t look that big to me. And “big” means 10 million people to me, and it’s not that big, so it’s small. It doesn’t *act* big enough, if you know what I mean. And to me, a big city is on an ocean, and it’s not, so not big. Go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 10:19 PM, joesaiditstrue said: Moncada has been a massive disappointment. I'm sure I'll take some flak for saying that but I'm sure I'm not the only Sox fan on these boards who agrees, this was the main piece for Sale remember. Dude's on pace for like a 5 win season, lmao. Are you guys even following this team? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 On 7/13/2021 at 12:30 AM, Jack Parkman said: I know, but most of that value over the last 2 years has been defensively rather than offensively. He's been kinda like Heyward with the Braves and Cardinals the last 2 years. BTW fangraphs loves his D but OAA hates his D, so TIFWIW. He has a 128 wRC+ right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: He has a 128 wRC+ right now But he doesn't hit for power. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: Dude's on pace for like a 5 win season, lmao. Are you guys even following this team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 24 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: Dude's on pace for like a 5 win season, lmao. Are you guys even following this team? Agreed, but Sox Talk participants aren't paid for their hot takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 9:19 PM, joesaiditstrue said: Moncada has been a massive disappointment. I'm sure I'll take some flak for saying that but I'm sure I'm not the only Sox fan on these boards who agrees, this was the main piece for Sale remember. I absolutely agree with you that Moncada is a big disappointment. When the Sox traded arguably one of the best pitchers in MLB in Chris Sale, the two key pieces were Moncada and Kopech. Moncada was not only the #1 prospect in the Boston system, but #1 overall of all prospects. It's clear to me now and should be to any Sox fan, that Kopech is the far better player at this point and stronger future. Hahn didn't make that trade to have Moncada producing at his present numbers. As Steve Stone said, Moncada doesn't have the hustle and drive like Jose Abreu. The fact Leury Garcia has the same amount of RBI's as Moncada in less games is ridiculous. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: I absolutely agree with you that Moncada is a big disappointment. When the Sox traded arguably one of the best pitchers in MLB in Chris Sale, the two key pieces were Moncada and Kopech. Moncada was not only the #1 prospect in the Boston system, but #1 overall of all prospects. It's clear to me now and should be to any Sox fan, that Kopech is the far better player at this point and stronger future. Hahn didn't make that trade to have Moncada producing at his present numbers. As Steve Stone said, Moncada doesn't have the hustle and drive like Jose Abreu. The fact Leury Garcia has the same amount of RBI's as Moncada in less games is ridiculous. Moncada RISP in 88 ABs .354/.500/.569/1.069, 171 OPS+ Leury RISP in 77 PAs .359/.413/.594/1.007 165 OPS+ The big difference is Yo has 18 walks and 17 Ks because they pitch around him, while Leury 8 walks and 19 Ks because they don't. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunt Ritual Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 long time lurker, first time poster. Some of these takes are insane. good lord. 2 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 SoxTalk: WAR is the most important metric in baseball! Also SoxTalk: Yeah, I know Yoan is on pace for 5 WAR, but he's just not that good. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Bunt Ritual said: long time lurker, first time poster. Some of these takes are insane. good lord. First off welcome. Second off I'm sorry for what your going to see. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 10:44 PM, Jack Parkman said: There's a guy on another board I post on that claims that the Sox got nothing for Sale. He believes Moncada sucks and Kopech will be a reliever. I will admit, I was really excited about both players entering 2020 and then Kopech opted out and Moncada got Covid. Even this version of Moncada is still a solid player but you do expect more than that when trading Sale. Moncada's current value is tied entirely to his walks so I wonder what his value would be if he wasn't walking so much. Even if Moncada kept doing what he’s doing in 2021, (a ~.400 OBP and SLG) I'm not sure you'd pick up his option year. Kopech still has the potential to start but I do wonder if he's ever getting out of the bullpen at this point. He just doesn't have enough innings. Using an anecdotal opinion of some random person in your argument. Parkman is officially morphing into greg circa 2013. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 24 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: I absolutely agree with you that Moncada is a big disappointment. When the Sox traded arguably one of the best pitchers in MLB in Chris Sale, the two key pieces were Moncada and Kopech. Moncada was not only the #1 prospect in the Boston system, but #1 overall of all prospects. It's clear to me now and should be to any Sox fan, that Kopech is the far better player at this point and stronger future. Hahn didn't make that trade to have Moncada producing at his present numbers. As Steve Stone said, Moncada doesn't have the hustle and drive like Jose Abreu. The fact Leury Garcia has the same amount of RBI's as Moncada in less games is ridiculous. Didn't you have problems logging into your old account? Did your old account happen to have a Jack McKeon avatar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, hogan873 said: SoxTalk: WAR is the most important metric in baseball! Also SoxTalk: Yeah, I know Yoan is on pace for 5 WAR, but he's just not that good. His offensive value is being propped up by the insane amount of walks he's taking right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: His offensive value is being propped up by the insane amount of walks he's taking right now. That's part of offensive value. There's no "yeah but" there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Moncada RISP in 88 ABs .354/.500/.569/1.069, 171 OPS+ Leury RISP in 77 PAs .359/.413/.594/1.007 165 OPS+ The big difference is Yo has 18 walks and 17 Ks because they pitch around him, while Leury 8 walks and 19 Ks because they don't. The original poster said Moncada was a big disappointment based on the Chris Sale trade. Stay with his point and not get off that Moncada is better than a bench player Garcia. In hindsight I shouldn't have added the Garcia comparison. At this point as a former #1 prospect in MLB, Moncada is clearly not as good as Kopech, which was the secondary part of the trade. That was the whole point he and I are making. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, ron883 said: Using an anecdotal opinion of some random person in your argument. Parkman is officially morphing into greg circa 2013. I don't even think that......I just disagree with the idea that Moncada is beyond criticism and that he's a great player. I'd take 2019 Moncada who doesn't walk as much over this version. Just my opinion......even though both are roughly equal on the WAR scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: His offensive value is being propped up by the insane amount of walks he's taking right now. The horror 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, ron883 said: Didn't you have problems logging into your old account? Did your old account happen to have a Jack McKeon avatar? No that was not me. I have never had a Jack McKeon avatar. I have not had a different account ever. You can check with admin and my email on record has always been the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: The original poster said Moncada was a big disappointment based on the Chris Sale trade. Stay with his point and not get off that Moncada is better than a bench player Garcia. In hindsight I shouldn't have added the Garcia comparison. At this point as a former #1 prospect in MLB, Moncada is clearly not as good as Kopech, which was the secondary part of the trade. That was the whole point he and I are making. Yoan Moncada is putting up some disgusting numbers with RISP, which is where RBI come from mainly. Hitters can't control who gets on base in front of them. RBI are a terrible measure for effectiveness because hitters only can hit with who is on in front of them. Yoan Moncada is KILLING it in chances he gets with RISP. If you are using RBIs to call Yoan Moncada a disappointment, you are doing it wrong, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 12 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: The original poster said Moncada was a big disappointment based on the Chris Sale trade. Stay with his point and not get off that Moncada is better than a bench player Garcia. In hindsight I shouldn't have added the Garcia comparison. At this point as a former #1 prospect in MLB, Moncada is clearly not as good as Kopech, which was the secondary part of the trade. That was the whole point he and I are making. How is Moncada clearly not as good as Kopech? Are you sure you know what the word clearly means? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Yoan Moncada is putting up some disgusting numbers with RISP, which is where RBI come from mainly. Hitters can't control who gets on base in front of them. RBI are a terrible measure for effectiveness because hitters only can hit with who is on in front of them. Yoan Moncada is KILLING it in chances he gets with RISP. If you are using RBIs to call Yoan Moncada a disappointment, you are doing it wrong, Dude, you need to address the original post. Quit rambling about how good Moncada is or isn't. The fact is the bigger piece of the Chris Sale trade was Moncada over Kopech. Based on that, right now who is the better player with a brighter Sox future? Is it Moncada or Kopech? If you say Moncada, then you truly are the #1 SoxTalk delusional contrarian on this forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: The original poster said Moncada was a big disappointment based on the Chris Sale trade. Stay with his point and not get off that Moncada is better than a bench player Garcia. In hindsight I shouldn't have added the Garcia comparison. At this point as a former #1 prospect in MLB, Moncada is clearly not as good as Kopech, which was the secondary part of the trade. That was the whole point he and I are making. With the hindsight, who should the Sox have acquired for Sale? This will be one of the better trades the team ever made, but you have no clue. Edited July 14, 2021 by Dick Allen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said: Dude, you need to address the original post. Quit rambling about how good Moncada is or isn't. The fact is the bigger piece of the Chris Sale trade was Moncada over Kopech. Based on that, right now who is the better player with a brighter Sox future? Is it Moncada or Kopech? If you say Moncada, then you truly are the #1 SoxTalk delusional contrarian on this forum. Ah yes, we are on to personal attacks again. Here's a solution, if you don't want something responded to, don't bring it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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