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Chimpton

White Sox power outage

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We've still managed to scratch out a lot of runs but losing some of your best HR hitters for various stretches sure takes a toll.  A lot of the replacements are getting some timely hits but they're not bashing the ball out of the park a ton.  

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2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Home runs are not the extent of “power”. Even with Robert out most of the season and Eloy all of it, the Sox rank 9th in MLB in slugging percentage.

Thanks I didn't notice that one, although again the slugging percentage is very similar to 2019 and down on last season's short effort. Team batting average the White Sox are 4th overall so maybe a combination better hitting and more extra base hits is behind the team's good first half?

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1 hour ago, bmags said:

Last year we were third in homers, this year we are terrible.

Losing eloy and Robert hurt, losing Grandal hurts worse. We may see more second half from Abreu, TA and Moncada but this will not likely be a power team. Home runs are good though as Sunday showed

I think I like this answer the best . HR's are good very good in fact.Going forward I'm sorry if I cannot share Dick Allens view about just being happy with winning after so many losing seasons . That sounds to me like we should all be grateful the Sox finally have a winning team on the field and should not expect to play in the World Series.

HR's are what win World Series. When you look at the most replayed moments in World Series or playoffs history what you see is usually big HR's. Of course pitching has just as much to do with winning World Seies but for dramatic instant game winning moments the HR tops everything. Go back to the Sox last World Series and we remember Podsenik, Blum, Konerko, Crede HR's plus dominant starting pitching.

When the Sox have just a few more HR's than bottom dwelling NL teams that bat a pitcher and only top the woeful Royals in the AL when the Sox have faced the bottom dwellers of the AL central and Baltimore 7 times yes I think it's a serious problem for a playoff bound team.

Moncada has a shoulder issue and still have no idea if Covid has any lingering effect until he doesn't have to play through a shoulder problem. So can't really count on him to step up power production.

Grandal's recovery is still questionable until we hear more about his recovery and rehab.

Eloy and Robert both are coming off serious injuries and should provide a lift but just how much of a lift is uncertain. Expecting Eloy , Robert and Grandal to pick up where they left off probably isn't a good idea.

Vaughn seems likely to produce another 10 HR's  conservatively.

Abreu's production is down and maybe getting Eloy back helps that but what if this is just Abreu having an off year and starts a decline in his numbers going forward.

Basically we are looking at nothing from left handed hitters except maybe a few more from Collins .

From the right side it's definitely looking better but not Eloy , Robert and Abreu at past production or top of their game better.

That's why I have been stressing the HR power of Escobar and Gallo when talking about trades. A lot to ask I know when we desperately need relief pitching too. Step up the power production and the 2021 Sox start to look more like the pitching and power team that the 2005 White Sox were.

 

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9 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Home runs are not the extent of “power”. Even with Robert out most of the season and Eloy all of it, the Sox rank 9th in MLB in slugging percentage.

Good point. The Sox are 3rd in triples and 6th in doubles in all of MLB. 

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10 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Perhaps the better question is; Why are those who want to see this team win it all, criticized and ridiculed for wanting the team to get better?  La Russa is well known for sharing that kind of competitive drive. If a team wants to be champions, they must always strive to be better and to fix any deficiencies. I'm sure that the skipper would quickly eschew any comments, such as "we're in 1ST place, so what are you complaining about?" It's not complaining, it's striving to improve and be the best.

Team is in 1st place, but its not as if there aren't areas of concern for a relatively unproven team.  I think those things are fair game to discuss and or critique without being labeled a hater, or complainer, etc.  We can enjoy the ride while also discussing problem areas or things that need improvement.  

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4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Fans are fickle and for the most part stupid, honestly. For a decade the Sox had a horrible team OBP and a bad offense.  Now we have a great OBP and a good offense and moar homerz is the cry from a certain segment.  Good grief.  

 

I wasn't moaning about wanting more homers it was a genuine question about how important homers are in achieving post season success etc. If the White Sox win without homers I will be just as happy.

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5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think I like this answer the best . HR's are good very good in fact.Going forward I'm sorry if I cannot share Dick Allens view about just being happy with winning after so many losing seasons . That sounds to me like we should all be grateful the Sox finally have a winning team on the field and should not expect to play in the World Series.

HR's are what win World Series. When you look at the most replayed moments in World Series or playoffs history what you see is usually big HR's. Of course pitching has just as much to do with winning World Seies but for dramatic instant game winning moments the HR tops everything. Go back to the Sox last World Series and we remember Podsenik, Blum, Konerko, Crede HR's plus dominant starting pitching.

When the Sox have just a few more HR's than bottom dwelling NL teams that bat a pitcher and only top the woeful Royals in the AL when the Sox have faced the bottom dwellers of the AL central and Baltimore 7 times yes I think it's a serious problem for a playoff bound team.

Moncada has a shoulder issue and still have no idea if Covid has any lingering effect until he doesn't have to play through a shoulder problem. So can't really count on him to step up power production.

Grandal's recovery is still questionable until we hear more about his recovery and rehab.

Eloy and Robert both are coming off serious injuries and should provide a lift but just how much of a lift is uncertain. Expecting Eloy , Robert and Grandal to pick up where they left off probably isn't a good idea.

Vaughn seems likely to produce another 10 HR's  conservatively.

Abreu's production is down and maybe getting Eloy back helps that but what if this is just Abreu having an off year and starts a decline in his numbers going forward.

Basically we are looking at nothing from left handed hitters except maybe a few more from Collins .

From the right side it's definitely looking better but not Eloy , Robert and Abreu at past production or top of their game better.

That's why I have been stressing the HR power of Escobar and Gallo when talking about trades. A lot to ask I know when we desperately need relief pitching too. Step up the power production and the 2021 Sox start to look more like the pitching and power team that the 2005 White Sox were.

 

Thanks this is a great help to improving my understanding of the situation.

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16 minutes ago, black jack said:

Add 30-35 homers to our total.  
Whete do they rank then?

That’s where we would be if the injuries didn’t happen.

14 minutes ago, Quin said:

If I add 32, it takes them to 124, placing them 4th, ahead of the Dodgers and behind the Twins.

And 35-40 seems pretty easy to project between Eloy and Robert being healthy and in the middle of the lineup all season.  That big chunk really shows when you stack it all up.

 

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It seems to me that LaRussa/Menechino are pushing back at the three true outcomes approach of always trying to hit the long ball and instead preach driving the ball to the gaps mixed with some small ball.  Fortunate timing for that in light of the new baseball and the Sox power hitters going down.

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1 hour ago, beck72 said:

Vaughn has started to figure things out. He's likely to put up some good numbers in the 2nd half. Overall, though, the decreased power numbers don't worry me too much. Playoff type pitchers don't give up many long balls and scoring runs without HR's is what will decide how far the Sox go in the playoffs.

Per our previous discussions that were quite cordial and I thank you for that, you know I feel the opposite.  Playoff pitchers are like any other pitcher except more consistently good. But they do make mistakes and when you have more hitters capable of hitting those mistakes for HR's  rather than singles it has a bigger impact on the game because those good pitchers make less mistakes. Look how many HR's Randy Arozarena hit in the playoffs last year. Set a new record if I am remembering correctly.

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Engel is back. That will help the HR total out of the RF position if he can stay healthy.

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7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think I like this answer the best . HR's are good very good in fact.Going forward I'm sorry if I cannot share Dick Allens view about just being happy with winning after so many losing seasons . That sounds to me like we should all be grateful the Sox finally have a winning team on the field and should not expect to play in the World Series.

HR's are what win World Series. When you look at the most replayed moments in World Series or playoffs history what you see is usually big HR's. Of course pitching has just as much to do with winning World Seies but for dramatic instant game winning moments the HR tops everything. Go back to the Sox last World Series and we remember Podsenik, Blum, Konerko, Crede HR's plus dominant starting pitching.

When the Sox have just a few more HR's than bottom dwelling NL teams that bat a pitcher and only top the woeful Royals in the AL when the Sox have faced the bottom dwellers of the AL central and Baltimore 7 times yes I think it's a serious problem for a playoff bound team.

Moncada has a shoulder issue and still have no idea if Covid has any lingering effect until he doesn't have to play through a shoulder problem. So can't really count on him to step up power production.

Grandal's recovery is still questionable until we hear more about his recovery and rehab.

Eloy and Robert both are coming off serious injuries and should provide a lift but just how much of a lift is uncertain. Expecting Eloy , Robert and Grandal to pick up where they left off probably isn't a good idea.

Vaughn seems likely to produce another 10 HR's  conservatively.

Abreu's production is down and maybe getting Eloy back helps that but what if this is just Abreu having an off year and starts a decline in his numbers going forward.

Basically we are looking at nothing from left handed hitters except maybe a few more from Collins .

From the right side it's definitely looking better but not Eloy , Robert and Abreu at past production or top of their game better.

That's why I have been stressing the HR power of Escobar and Gallo when talking about trades. A lot to ask I know when we desperately need relief pitching too. Step up the power production and the 2021 Sox start to look more like the pitching and power team that the 2005 White Sox were.

 

The 2005 White Sox were 20th in offensive production, 13th in RBIs, 18th in batting average, 15th in OPS. They were 5th in home runs. They just happened to be full of magic and scored runs and the correct time all season long.

The current iteration is 4th in offensive production, 4th in RBIs, 4th in batting average, 7th in OPS. They are 24th in home runs. 

If you add a full season of Robert and Eloy hitting missiles, we're not talking about a "pitching and power" team, we're talking about a "pitching and well rounded offense" team, but you aren't happy with winning despite suffering four massive injuries to a lineup, for some reason.

 

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13 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

I wasn't moaning about wanting more homers it was a genuine question about how important homers are in achieving post season success etc. If the White Sox win without homers I will be just as happy.

Just to clarify I was referring to the general discontent around Moncada and the weekly complaining here about the Sox' relative lack of HRs.  Your thread here is at least open minded.

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3 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

I'm more interested in a W than a HR

Of course you are, as is practically everyone. The point is that a HR is often very instrumental in achieving that win.

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2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Just to clarify I was referring to the general discontent around Moncada and the weekly complaining here about the Sox' relative lack of HRs.  Your thread here is at least open minded.

No problem

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The reduction in home runs, specifically their "ranking", is stark. It warrants the questions of why and what it portends.

The "why": I believe injuries. The post about the sox being 4th in HR's had they had Eloy and Luis tells us all we need to know. Its not the dead ball or sticky stuff IMO because that affects all teams.

The "what it portends": We should be very encouraged. The run production without those two bats shows the multidimensionality of the offense. Just wait until the bats return.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Per our previous discussions that were quite cordial and I thank you for that, you know I feel the opposite.  Playoff pitchers are like any other pitcher except more consistently good. But they do make mistakes and when you have more hitters capable of hitting those mistakes for HR's  rather than singles it has a bigger impact on the game because those good pitchers make less mistakes. Look how many HR's Randy Arozarena hit in the playoffs last year. Set a new record if I am remembering correctly.

Everyone digs the longball! I'm no different. My point was that good pitchers miss their spots less often and give up less HR's than your typical non-contending club. The sox could use another bat who can work counts, foul off 'pitchers pitches', and then drive pitches that they should hit. Whether that's adding  a HR guy [your Gallo] or a 2b's guy. Grandal and Madrigal are big losses to the lineup and helping in that capacity could mean also adding some HR pop.

Whoever the Sox add this deadline, should be made with the intent to get past Houston, Boston and to win the AL. No doubt that should help the Sox win in a NL park if they get to the World Series

 

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I'm all tasted up for a Goose Island Rule 5 and a Yerminator burger, but I can't find either one anywhere down here.

Seems the power outage (such that it was) kinda began when Yermin's mojo quit workin'.

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53 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Fans are fickle and for the most part stupid, honestly. For a decade the Sox had a horrible team OBP and a bad offense.  Now we have a great OBP and a good offense and moar homerz is the cry from a certain segment.  Good grief.  

 

You see we White Sox fans are perfectionists.....if they're not great in every aspect of the game, there's something to b**** about. 

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1 hour ago, Chimpton said:

Thanks I didn't notice that one, although again the slugging percentage is very similar to 2019 and down on last season's short effort. Team batting average the White Sox are 4th overall so maybe a combination better hitting and more extra base hits is behind the team's good first half?

Elite SP and a good offense fueled by walks and good situational hitting.  That’s where the +115 runs come from.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Chimpton said:

Thanks I didn't notice that one, although again the slugging percentage is very similar to 2019 and down on last season's short effort. Team batting average the White Sox are 4th overall so maybe a combination better hitting and more extra base hits is behind the team's good first half?

The teams good 1st half is the result of some of the best starting pitching in baseball,  decent though inconsistent relief pitching and from great production from the guys filling in for injured players like Vaughn, Mercedes in April, Engel since coming back from his own lengthy injury problems, Goodwin , Lamb , Leury, and even Sheets and Burger just recently.

Vaughn is a starter going forward . The Sox hit 92 HR's in a little over half the season so far. Of those 92, Grandal 14, (currently injured), Mercedes 7 (sent down to the minors). Adam Eaton 5 (released) Lamb 5 (injured). Engel 5, Goodwin 4, Leury Garcia 3, Collins 3 , Sheets 3, Madrigal 2 ( injured out for the season) Mendick 2, Hamilton 2 , Robert 1 ( injured due back in mid August. I count 34 of the 92 HR's from players who are either injured at the moment or have been released or sent down. I count 22 from those usually characterized as substitute players .

That makes 56 of our 92 HR hit by either currently injured players, players no longer on the 26 man roster or subs who have had increased playing time due to those injuries. HR production from the subs probably goes down as the injured starters return but the Sox are facing the rest of July with subs and no Grandal and probably at least 2 weeks in August with only Eloy coming back.

That means a grand total of 36 HR's from the 4 remaining  uninjured regular starters on the team. For reference the leading HR hitter in baseball Is Shohei Ohtani with 33 HR's all by himself.

Robert HR production is mystery  since he was very valuable hitting over .300 and playing his usual stellar defense in CF while using his great speed on the bases. He has massive power but he is still in on the job training so to speak and what we see from him after he returns is any ones guess. The high side of Robert  is off the charts good but when will we see the whole package come together is open for debate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
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12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You see we White Sox fans are perfectionists.....if they're not great in every aspect of the game, there's something to b**** about. 

Of those that have much, much is expected or something.

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2 hours ago, Chimpton said:

I am happy, it was a genuine question about whether or not home runs really matter that much, can a team hitting so few home runs do well in the post season? 

Pardon my apparent ignorance of these things, I'm an English White Sox fan who is trying to learn the more detailed aspects of the game and sometimes my questions may be a bit obvious to you guys!

There are plenty of ways to score runs, hitting home runs is just the most efficient. 

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