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southsider2k5

White Sox considering Nelson Cruz

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Saw the thread topic and thought this was something from December that got bumped.

Unreal.

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1 hour ago, poppysox said:

With Eloy ready to come back...this is one rumor that just isn't going to happen IMO.  Makes zero sense.

I mean, they would be crazy to put Eloy back in LF. but does the team win more games with:

1) Eloy in LF/Cruz at DH, with Vaughn acting as a kind of super sub between LF/1B/3B/DH?

2) Or stick with Eloy and Vaughn?

you'd have to think they're a better team overall in option 1.  but it could hamper Vaughn's overall development.  Sox should be trying to win the WS over developing guys but that's just my opinion

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21 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

I mean, they would be crazy to put Eloy back in LF. but does the team win more games with:

1) Eloy in LF/Cruz at DH, with Vaughn acting as a kind of super sub between LF/1B/3B/DH?

2) Or stick with Eloy and Vaughn?

you'd have to think they're a better team overall in option 1.  but it could hamper Vaughn's overall development.  Sox should be trying to win the WS over developing guys but that's just my opinion

Sheets is also in the DH mix.  If there is one position that we are set...it is the DH.

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9 hours ago, fathom said:

who you think he goes to?

If I had to guess myself, I’d say Rays.

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37 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Sheets is also in the DH mix.  If there is one position that we are set...it is the DH.

Sheets was called up out of necessity due to injuries, are you suggesting the team is better with Sheets than Cruz?  Saying we have guys who can DH is like saying we are set at 2B because we have Leury Garcia and Danny Mendick

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33 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

Sheets was called up out of necessity due to injuries, are you suggesting the team is better with Sheets than Cruz?  Saying we have guys who can DH is like saying we are set at 2B because we have Leury Garcia and Danny Mendick

It's just a lower level priority than another reliever (arguably 2), a 2B, and a RF.

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11 hours ago, fathom said:

I could see it...Eloy in LF, Vaughn in RF and Cruz DH.  Not likely AT ALL, but I've heard crazier things.  Remember that the rumor was Tony was interested in Cruz in the offseason.

Agreement here. Surprised at the negativity in this thread over NELSON CRUZ. Weird sentiment. Maybe because of the guy who is reporting it? But overall if the price is right and the Twins are willing to trade to division foe? I don't really see the downside of having a Nelson Cruz in our lineup. Speed ... but outside of that, don't see the downside. 

In that outfield scenario you are really counting on Robert to play Superman, but could be worse. Hell, I know we are giving DH spots to Seby and Collins only because of injuries and that Eloy and Robert and Grandal coming back takes away those opportunities, but if you're asking me if I'd rather have Sheets, Burger, or Cruz on my bench? I'd go Cruz all day. A bit of a station to station in terms of speed ... kinda reminiscent of Paulie - AJ - Thome - Dye .... 3 singles in a row, strikeout, GIDP and 0 runs, but still wouldn't hate seeing Cruz up in a playoff AB. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Sheets is also in the DH mix.  If there is one position that we are set...it is the DH.

I don't disagree it's not a point of need. But there's a few angles on this ...

a) playing defense. Twins are going to trade him because they're not resigning him next year. So Cruz is going to the A's, Rays, etc. I don't know about you, but I don't want to face Cruz in the playoffs. 

b) We've seen it a bit with Burger in a few AB's lately. Throwing low and away seems to be getting to him. We saw it with Yermin. We'll undoubtedly see it with Sheets too. Pitchers at hte MLB level adjust and it's up to the players to readjust. Maybe Burger and Sheets do. Maybe they don't. I overall prefer Cruz and his track record of Sheets, Burger, Hamilton, etc. etc. 

c) when you're a team like the Sox, probably a top 4 favorite to win it all, you get greedy. you have to. you don't necessarily "need" cruz, but i'd be hard pressed to see how adding him doesn't make us a better team. So at that point it becomes a cost benefit analysis. What's the cost to acquire him v. maybe bringing in an Adam Frazier, Story, Marte, etc. and whats the cost if Cruz goes to a direct competitor?

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35 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

Sheets was called up out of necessity due to injuries, are you suggesting the team is better with Sheets than Cruz?  Saying we have guys who can DH is like saying we are set at 2B because we have Leury Garcia and Danny Mendick

Well, here's the situation:

LF: Vaughn / Eloy / Leury
CF: Robert / Hamilton / Leury
RF: Engel / Sheets / Leury
DH: Eloy / Sheets / Grandal / Burger / Abreu / Vaughn / Collins (tried to sort this by playing time, but who knows)
1B: Abreu / Vaughn / Grandal
C : Grandal / Collins
3B: Moncada / Burger / Mendick / Leury
2B: Leury / Mendick
SS: Anderson / Mendick / Leury

I know one of Burger or Sheets has to go down in this scenario, but yeah, Cruz doesn't really fill a need like a 2B does.

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That last breakout is nice. I didn't feel like thinking that much through it. 2b is much more of a need for sure. Leury also shouldn't be that important to the team, but here we are. i don't expect cruz, but would still welcome him. I'd be more than okay sending down both Burger/Sheets and bringing in Cruz/Frazier/etc. 

 

burger and sheets are nice to haves, but also types of guys that i'm okay with trading to get us where we need to go over the next few years. if they're casualties? sucks, but thats the business were in right now. 

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Honestly, I don't think this is that crazy.

#1 the Sox do seem to be letting Eloy play LF for some dumb reason.  They had previously said he would be mostly a DH, but maybe that has changed?

#2, He will be cheap to acquire, especially if the team pays his $$$

#3, Nelson Cruz is a really, really good hitter, no matter what you think of how he got to be that way

#4, the Sox seem to really believe in having an actual DH, and seem to have too many DHs at many points in recent years.

#5, The Twins don't care about who they trade him too, as he will be a FA in three months.  They care about return.  They obviously aren't going to offer QO, so something is better than nothing.

#6, Eloy in LF, Vaughn in RF, and Cruz at DH is a defensive nightmare, but probably the best offensive line up in baseball.  Combine that with our starting pitching, and that is tough to beat four times in the post season.

#7, by trading for Cruz, you prevent him from going to a team you will face in October, and we all know what Cruz does to us.

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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Honestly, I don't think this is that crazy.

#1 the Sox do seem to be letting Eloy play LF for some dumb reason.  They had previously said he would be mostly a DH, but maybe that has changed?

#2, He will be cheap to acquire, especially if the team pays his $$$

#3, Nelson Cruz is a really, really good hitter, no matter what you think of how he got to be that way

#4, the Sox seem to really believe in having an actual DH, and seem to have too many DHs at many points in recent years.

#5, The Twins don't care about who they trade him too, as he will be a FA in three months.  They care about return.  They obviously aren't going to offer QO, so something is better than nothing.

#6, Eloy in LF, Vaughn in RF, and Cruz at DH is a defensive nightmare, but probably the best offensive line up in baseball.  Combine that with our starting pitching, and that is tough to beat four times in the post season.

Yeah, I'm totally down for it. I just think the Dan Clark thing is what makes me question it.

The thing about acquiring Cruz for DH is that it also kind of solves RF, as it adds Vaughn to the mix in RF. So you now have some combo of Vaughn, Engel, Sheets, Goodwin there.

If you are able to acquire Cruz and Escobar for prospects that are pretty easy to part with, you still have a full stable of prospects to attack bullpen help with. Kimbrel, please!

You then go to the postseason with a roster of:

Anderson SS

Moncada 3B

Abreu 1B

Grandal C

Cruz DH

Eloy LF

Escobar 2B

Robert CF

Vaughn RF

Bench: Engel, Collins, Leury, Sheets or Goodwin or Hamilton

Pitching:

Rodon

Lynn

Giolito

Keuchel

Cease

Pen:

Hendriks

Kimbrel

Kopech

Bummer

Crochet

Heuer

Burr

Ruiz

That roster can win a World Series. The OF defense will be bad in the corners but Engel and Garcia can come in the late innings as defensive subs, or Hamilton if he's on the roster

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, KrankinSox said:

The only way this makes any sense is if the Sox plan to use Eloy full time in LF and move Vaughn to RF. The lineup would be absolutely stacked, but that would be asking a lot of Luis in CF playing between Eloy and Vaughn.

Dan Clark also has zero credibility so none of this really matters.

Maybe we don't replace 2b and go 4 in the outfield and put Engel and Robert in CF to cover Eloy and Vaughn. 😂

Edited by RibbieRubarb
typo

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Can Nelson Cruz pitch out of the bullpen and be a set up guy? If not, then no thanks. 

Bullpen and pitching are going to help u win playoff games........we will have enough hitting 

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15 minutes ago, KrankinSox said:

Yeah, I'm totally down for it. I just think the Dan Clark thing is what makes me question it.

The thing about acquiring Cruz for DH is that it also kind of solves RF, as it adds Vaughn to the mix in RF. So you now have some combo of Vaughn, Engel, Sheets, Goodwin there.

If Cruz is here, Sheets is definitely in the minors and Goodwin is as good as gone when Eloy arrives.

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6 minutes ago, Quin said:

If Cruz is here, Sheets is definitely in the minors and Goodwin is as good as gone when Eloy arrives.

Man, gonna be tough to just throw Goodwin to the wolves after how good he's been.  Its the right thing to do, but a tad cutthroat.  I guess that is what happens when you win.  

I still don't think Cruz is an option for the Sox, but even without him, there is a real roster crunch coming.

Eloy -----> Burger to AAA

Robert ------> Goodwin DFA

Bullpen trade ------> ReyLo AAA

Escobar or other 2B trade ------> this is where things get interesting.  I guess Mendick to AAA

Yasmani ------> Zavala AAA

I think Sheets hangs around cuz we need lefty sticks, and I don't see the Sox cutting Hamilton.  I'd be surprised if the Jake Lamb makes it back to the Sox, but perhaps they chose Lamb over Sheets when Jake's 20 day rehab stint is up.  

Will be interesting roster machinations regardless. 

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1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Man, gonna be tough to just throw Goodwin to the wolves after how good he's been.  Its the right thing to do, but a tad cutthroat.  I guess that is what happens when you win.  

I still don't think Cruz is an option for the Sox, but even without him, there is a real roster crunch coming.

Eloy -----> Burger to AAA

Robert ------> Goodwin DFA

Bullpen trade ------> ReyLo AAA

Escobar or other 2B trade ------> this is where things get interesting.  I guess Mendick to AAA

Yasmani ------> Zavala AAA

I think Sheets hangs around cuz we need lefty sticks, and I don't see the Sox cutting Hamilton.  I'd be surprised if the Jake Lamb makes it back to the Sox, but perhaps they chose Lamb over Sheets when Jake's 20 day rehab stint is up.  

Will be interesting roster machinations regardless. 

Yeah it does become a bit of a crunch but I could also see Sheets going down since he can be option and keeping Goodwin, not that I really care if they decide to cut Goodwin. I think you're right about Lamb though and he can just be DFA'd/traded for cash considerations or something.

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FWIW, Cruz has an OPS of 1.010 against lefties but still .852 against righties this season.

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5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Man, gonna be tough to just throw Goodwin to the wolves after how good he's been.  Its the right thing to do, but a tad cutthroat.  I guess that is what happens when you win.  

I still don't think Cruz is an option for the Sox, but even without him, there is a real roster crunch coming.

Eloy -----> Burger to AAA

Robert ------> Goodwin DFA

Bullpen trade ------> ReyLo AAA

Escobar or other 2B trade ------> this is where things get interesting.  I guess Mendick to AAA

Yasmani ------> Zavala AAA

I think Sheets hangs around cuz we need lefty sticks, and I don't see the Sox cutting Hamilton.  I'd be surprised if the Jake Lamb makes it back to the Sox, but perhaps they chose Lamb over Sheets when Jake's 20 day rehab stint is up.  

Will be interesting roster machinations regardless. 

I can see Goodwin hanging around over Sheets due to vet status and Sheets' options. That way if (god forbid) an injury happens in the playoffs, Sheets can come back up. 

I think Lamb is DOA at this point.

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i'm not going to care about this but it certainly feels like the sox love signing DHs more than any other position and not having an explicit big boy in the DH may be making them sweat.

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Only way this makes sense is if they trade Vaughn for something insane.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, bmags said:

i'm not going to care about this but it certainly feels like the sox love signing DHs more than any other position and not having an explicit big boy in the DH may be making them sweat.

This is their penance for letting Jim Thome go 

Edited by RTC

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Honestly, I don't think this is that crazy.

#1 the Sox do seem to be letting Eloy play LF for some dumb reason.  They had previously said he would be mostly a DH, but maybe that has changed?

#2, He will be cheap to acquire, especially if the team pays his $$$

#3, Nelson Cruz is a really, really good hitter, no matter what you think of how he got to be that way

#4, the Sox seem to really believe in having an actual DH, and seem to have too many DHs at many points in recent years.

#5, The Twins don't care about who they trade him too, as he will be a FA in three months.  They care about return.  They obviously aren't going to offer QO, so something is better than nothing.

#6, Eloy in LF, Vaughn in RF, and Cruz at DH is a defensive nightmare, but probably the best offensive line up in baseball.  Combine that with our starting pitching, and that is tough to beat four times in the post season.

#7, by trading for Cruz, you prevent him from going to a team you will face in October, and we all know what Cruz does to us.

  1. Anderson SS
  2. Moncada 3B
  3. Cruz DH
  4. Abreu 1B
  5. Grandal C
  6. Eloy LF
  7. Robert CF
  8. Vaughn RF
  9. Escobar 2B

Good lord. That’s some kind of lineup. 

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