Pitching worries

[reiks12]

Just being a masochist looking over our pitching numbers over the last 30 games. Just keep shaking my head. We will win this division, but we need some serious help if we want to advance past the ALDS. I attached a picture of what I am looking at, sorted by WHIP. Stats are from MLB.com.

Cease has been awful but has shown flashes of excellence. 

Keuchel has been... bad. Very bad.

The other 3 starters have been good, however I am worried about Rodon's workload and I don't have much confidence in Giolito. I think we were seeing Rodon's workload catch up to him in Milwaukee, his fastball velocity was way down throughout that game.

The bullpen... my goodness. Bummer, Burr, and Heuer (6 walks in 8 innings), awful. Ruiz looks like he has good stuff but quite lucky.

Crochet has been OK, Kopech dominant.

Maybe Lopez finds himself in the bullpen role, but Hahn can't hide our desperation for pitching help for much longer. I wouldn't be opposed to trading for a starter as well in case Rodon goes down or Cease and Keuchel continue to struggle.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

We don’t need to trade for a starter and in this market it would cost us significantly.  Focus on the pen, 2B, and the OF if a guy can be acquired at a reasonable price.

[black jack]

How soon before Koepech is stretched out enough to start?  Adding him in mid august to the rotation and doing a rotating "skip" with the others might really freshen them up for the stretch run.  

[Balta1701]

20 minutes ago, black jack said:

How soon before Koepech is stretched out enough to start?  Adding him in mid august to the rotation and doing a rotating "skip" with the others might really freshen them up for the stretch run.  

Kopech has pitched 7 innings in July. He last threw on Tuesday, so he is now on 5 days rest and once again has to be used soon just to get work in. On Tuesday, he pitched 2 innings for the first time since May, threw 40 pitches. He walked 2 and gave up an early home run. Towards the end, he did appear to be laboring while trying to throw strikes, although I do believe he struck out his last hitter. 

They could have used him in the game Friday rather than Heuer, with good rest, and did not do so. In other words, he is not stretched out at all and so far there is no sign they are trying to do so.

[reiks12]

1 hour ago, black jack said:

How soon before Koepech is stretched out enough to start?  Adding him in mid august to the rotation and doing a rotating "skip" with the others might really freshen them up for the stretch run.  

Next year

[black jack]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Kopech has pitched 7 innings in July. He last threw on Tuesday, so he is now on 5 days rest and once again has to be used soon just to get work in. On Tuesday, he pitched 2 innings for the first time since May, threw 40 pitches. He walked 2 and gave up an early home run. Towards the end, he did appear to be laboring while trying to throw strikes, although I do believe he struck out his last hitter. 

They could have used him in the game Friday rather than Heuer, with good rest, and did not do so. In other words, he is not stretched out at all and so far there is no sign they are trying to do so.

Well that sucks.  I was hoping the plan was to keep him in the bullpen to slowly stretch out the arm for September. 

That would keep him from reaching his innings limit in July.

[black jack]

25 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Next year

How many innings can he pitch next year if they don't stretch him out a bit this year?  

Hopefully they start giving him 2-4 innings per appearance.  Give him some foundation to build on.

[kitekrazy]

I'd be afraid to throw big money on Rodon based on one season.

[mmmmmbeeer]

5 hours ago, black jack said:

How soon before Koepech is stretched out enough to start?  Adding him in mid august to the rotation and doing a rotating "skip" with the others might really freshen them up for the stretch run.  

I think this was likely the plan heading into this season but, with the bullpen performance thus far, there's no way you can take him out of his current role (minimal as it's been).  It's been said ad nauseum, but we literally have only 2-3 reliable arms out of the pen that can be reasonably counted on to hold a lead.  If the plan is to skip starts, we'd better get used to the idea of seeing guys like Steiver and Lopez start some games between now and the end of the season.

[CeaseAndExist]

So basically OP thinks the entire staff is terrible.

I don't even know how to respond to someone who complains about the rotation. 

[reiks12]

17 minutes ago, CeaseAndExist said:

So basically OP thinks the entire staff is terrible.

I don't even know how to respond to someone who complains about the rotation. 

Basically you cant read. I said Cease and Keuchel have been bad over the last 30 games and showed numbers to prove it. Its best you dont respond at all.

Edited July 26, 2021 by reiks12

[kitekrazy]

On 7/25/2021 at 9:07 AM, reiks12 said:

Next year

Quite possible since no one knows the value of Rodon who only has one good season so far. 

[Soxsi75]

On 7/25/2021 at 2:40 PM, kitekrazy said:

I'd be afraid to throw big money on Rodon based on one season.

I think what could turn out good for us, is everyone else around the league feels the same way.  

[gogosox1959]

I think Kopech should stay in the bullpen this year.  He can pitch the 8th every other game if he's prepped that way.   We go with Lynn, Rodon and Giolito. 

In the playoffs, you don't always use your #4 starter that much.  For the 4th starter, Kuechel for 18 batters, period.  Then Cease comes in; after Kuechel, he'll look like he's throwing 120.

[Balta1701]

20 minutes ago, gogosox1959 said:

I think Kopech should stay in the bullpen this year.  He can pitch the 8th every other game if he's prepped that way.   We go with Lynn, Rodon and Giolito. 

In the playoffs, you don't always use your #4 starter that much.  For the 4th starter, Kuechel for 18 batters, period.  Then Cease comes in; after Kuechel, he'll look like he's throwing 120.

He's not being prepped that way either. His last outing of 1+ innings came after 4 days off.

[Jack Parkman]

I'm starting to come to grips with the idea that Kopech and Crochet are never leaving the bullpen. I just don't know how it happens. 

[reiks12]

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm starting to come to grips with the idea that Kopech and Crochet are never leaving the bullpen. I just don't know how it happens. 

well not this year, but Rodon is likely gone next year and Keuchel will probably see himself out of the rotation at some point. It will be hard to be competitive while also stretching out 2 potential starters.. really wish they just stretched out crochet in AAA this season.

[EloyJenkins]

7 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

well not this year, but Rodon is likely gone next year and Keuchel will probably see himself out of the rotation at some point. It will be hard to be competitive while also stretching out 2 potential starters.. really wish they just stretched out crochet in AAA this season.

It isn't hard. You trade for a RH setup man (Hudson) and start to stretch Kopech out immediately with 2-3 inning outings when Keuchel is bad and eventually some 6th starter spot starts in August. But they are being stubborn and want to win RIGHT NOW. And next season will see Kopech as a starter with 100 innings and then shut down. 

[Jack Parkman]

9 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:

It isn't hard. You trade for a RH setup man (Hudson) and start to stretch Kopech out immediately with 2-3 inning outings when Keuchel is bad and eventually some 6th starter spot starts in August. But they are being stubborn and want to win RIGHT NOW. And next season will see Kopech as a starter with 100 innings and then shut down. 

Whatever they're doing with Kopech and Crochet makes no sense. 

[GermanSoxFan]

15 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm starting to come to grips with the idea that Kopech and Crochet are never leaving the bullpen. I just don't know how it happens. 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by GermanSoxFan

[scs787]

Cease and Keuchel both had really bad games to start the month which really skew the numbers. 

 

I do hope they start to stretch out Kopech after adding to the pen. Give Rodon some rest here and there. Skip starts and/or piggy back the 2. 

[he gone.]

16 hours ago, gogosox1959 said:

I think Kopech should stay in the bullpen this year.  He can pitch the 8th every other game if he's prepped that way.   We go with Lynn, Rodon and Giolito. 

In the playoffs, you don't always use your #4 starter that much.  For the 4th starter, Kuechel for 18 batters, period.  Then Cease comes in; after Kuechel, he'll look like he's throwing 120.

I'd favorite this 5 times if i could. 

The playoffs, especially this year, will be going back to normal with days of rest. Someone else responded they don't know what they're doing with Kopech and Crochet ... meanwhile, I think they know EXACTLY what they're doing and it doing it flawlessly. I'd be skipping Rodon or limiting him to 3-4 inning outings right now if I were the Sox too. Just like the Brewers are doing with Peralta and Burnes. I'd have Lambert up, or Lopez in the rotation too. Make a 6 man rotation, keep these guys fresh, limit outings, skip guys, etc. When you have a 99.5% chance of making the playoffs and the Indians top arms (Bieber and Civale) are still like 3-4 weeks at best from returning? I wouldn't even be half surprised to see the Indians trade someone like Cesar Hernandez inner division to us. They know they're dead in the water. So this is all about prep for the playoffs. Sure it'd be nice to have the top record so Lynn is matching up against someone else #2 guy, but that said? who cares. 

 

You'll have your 4 man rotation. Lynn. Rodon. Giolito. Game 4 is either a Keuchel/Cease piggy back or the likes. That's when the reigns come off Kopech and Crochet. That's when you let them go 2, 3, maybe even 4 innings depending on the situation. 

Imagine something like this:

Game 1 - Lynn, 7IP, 1ip bummer, hendriks

Game 2 - Rodon 6IP, crochet 2ip, hendriks

Game 3 - Giolito 5IP, 3ip Kopech, hendriks

Game 4 - 4IP Keuchel, 4IP Cease, Hendriks

I get that's a perfect scenario where our guys are mowing through lineups and that in the playoffs there are quick hooks... but you get the point ... I don't think you'll need to see a whole lot of our bullpen. 

[flavum]

162 games between 2020-21.

Sox are 95-67

Giolito old school numbers:

33 starts, 12-10, 3.60 ERA, 197.1 innings

Overall record, he deserves better. Not worried, but didn’t feel like starting a new thread.

[Balta1701]

On 7/28/2021 at 11:08 AM, BrianAnderson said:

I'd favorite this 5 times if i could. 

The playoffs, especially this year, will be going back to normal with days of rest. Someone else responded they don't know what they're doing with Kopech and Crochet ... meanwhile, I think they know EXACTLY what they're doing and it doing it flawlessly. I'd be skipping Rodon or limiting him to 3-4 inning outings right now if I were the Sox too. Just like the Brewers are doing with Peralta and Burnes. I'd have Lambert up, or Lopez in the rotation too. Make a 6 man rotation, keep these guys fresh, limit outings, skip guys, etc. When you have a 99.5% chance of making the playoffs and the Indians top arms (Bieber and Civale) are still like 3-4 weeks at best from returning? I wouldn't even be half surprised to see the Indians trade someone like Cesar Hernandez inner division to us. They know they're dead in the water. So this is all about prep for the playoffs. Sure it'd be nice to have the top record so Lynn is matching up against someone else #2 guy, but that said? who cares. 

 

You'll have your 4 man rotation. Lynn. Rodon. Giolito. Game 4 is either a Keuchel/Cease piggy back or the likes. That's when the reigns come off Kopech and Crochet. That's when you let them go 2, 3, maybe even 4 innings depending on the situation. 

Imagine something like this:

Game 1 - Lynn, 7IP, 1ip bummer, hendriks

Game 2 - Rodon 6IP, crochet 2ip, hendriks

Game 3 - Giolito 5IP, 3ip Kopech, hendriks

Game 4 - 4IP Keuchel, 4IP Cease, Hendriks

I get that's a perfect scenario where our guys are mowing through lineups and that in the playoffs there are quick hooks... but you get the point ... I don't think you'll need to see a whole lot of our bullpen. 

[Dominikk85]

I think they really should give Lynn and rodon a start off. Yeah home field advantage would be nice but imo it is more important to have fresh pitchers in the post season. 

 

So give rodon and Lynn a full skip plus another 3 inning start followed by a bullpen day and you have saved each 10 innings and maybe cost the Sox a win. That is worth it imo.