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Sox Acquire Kimbrel; Madrigal, Heuer to Cubs

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I’m interested to know what changed over the last 24 hours when the Sox were taking to the Cubs about Tepera. Was this not discussed? Did the Sox see everyone else making moves and get more aggressive? 

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3 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

Sox can trade Kimbrel for a player better than Madrigal this winter. 

How? Kimbrel was hot garbage as recently as last year?

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2 minutes ago, SexiAlexei said:

Aren’t they literally doing that by trading Madrigal?

Ha, yeah I mean this is definitely mortgaging the future. Very explicitly.

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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Can't emphasize it enough, it's great for this year.

Trading Heuer at the bottom point of his value and maybe Madrigal with value down due to injury could suck too.

Heuer is no loss.  Relievers are volatile, he’ll probably have another good year or two at some point, but there are plenty of guys like that.  

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1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

It converts to a club option. 

How you feeling about the trade, James?

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1 minute ago, Tony said:

I’m interested to know what changed over the last 24 hours when the Sox were taking to the Cubs about Tepera. Was this not discussed? Did the Sox see everyone else making moves and get more aggressive? 

The first Kimbrel post this morning was about how his price dropped, I thought.  Must have been a meeting in the middle there.

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1 minute ago, Tony said:

I’m interested to know what changed over the last 24 hours when the Sox were taking to the Cubs about Tepera. Was this not discussed? Did the Sox see everyone else making moves and get more aggressive? 

I believe they read this board and came away thinking "we should do more"

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1 minute ago, Chisoxmb35 said:

How? Kimbrel was hot garbage as recently as last year?

but he's been incredible this year and hopefully continues that for rest of the year.  1 year at 16 million for a great closer is not a bad deal for teams to consider this offseason.

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Just now, bighurt574 said:

Heuer is no loss.  Relievers are volatile, he’ll probably have another good year or two at some point, but there are plenty of guys like that.  

Volatility works both ways, he is a great bullpen arm. Heuers a big loss for next year.

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5 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I just, I don't know... It's a lot of money tied up in a lot of short-term, high risk value. The only other team in recent history that decided to dump this much money into the back-end of their bullpen is the fucking Rockies, and we're dumping money AND player talent into it.

I think there's a good reason that the progressive teams sell off good bullpen pieces every year and seem to find a way to make new ones out of thin air. There are methods for maximizing raw stuff, but these guys typically don't have enough tricks to make it last very long. I know Kimbrel has made a whole career of it, but he also looked completely destroyed for the two season prior to this. Once again, the Sox are making an upgrade, but doing it in a very inefficient way with a fiscal policy that doesn't have much room for inefficiency.

I just hope it works.

On one hand: incredible bullpen and we probably won't lose a lead after the 7th again. This is also a statement acquisition by a franchise, that quite frankly, usually doesn't play ball with the big boys. 

On the other hand: everyone else thinks we overpaid (we did) and we're being incredibly financially irresponsible. If Jerry is willing to go with $175 million payrolls, I wouldn't have as many issues with this. But unless we win the WS, I doubt we'll go that high. 

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1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

I am so torn on this deal. I would have felt better had we added Bryant somehow. 

I don't love the deal, but it just can't be argued how great it is for this year. And I think the Sox need to capitalize on any season they make the playoffs given how not often it happens.

The Sox pitching staff is ready to roll now and they fixed their biggest issue (the bullpen).

It's dominant and it's exciting and they're going to be amazing to watch. The process itself just feels really poor, but gotta trust their internal evaluations. I would have been much more pissed if it were Crochet, given that the difference between Crochet and Kimbrel the rest of this season is like 3-4 runs.

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Just now, Kyyle23 said:

I believe they read this board and came away thinking "we should do more"

Then you’re welcome, Soxtalk

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1 minute ago, bighurt574 said:

Heuer is no loss.  Relievers are volatile, he’ll probably have another good year or two at some point, but there are plenty of guys like that.  

For sure. How many relievers stay elite for a lengthy period of time? More the exception, than the norm. Yeah, we sold low on Cody, but bullpen arms go that way.

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8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I was worried about you !

It's ok. I'm used to not being sexually active.

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

I mean the dodgers paid kenley jansen $80 million and the yankees pump a shit ton into their pen. It's not ideal, but you kinda need more than trusting in regression when you are in midseason.

If you look at fraction of payroll, that's not really true.

As far as the second sentence goes -- yeah, I guess I'm just noticing that this is looking more and more like a short window of contention with each transaction that's made, and maybe I just need time to come to terms with that.  

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I think my fear is we are trading players at their lowest value? 

Kopech-Kimbrel-Hendricks is clearly the best 7-8-9 in the playoffs. 

I think the Sox saw Madrigal limitations as making him at best an above-average player but not elite. Above Average 2bs are easy to come by. 

I am actually more upset with Codi Heuer who will be a good reliever for years to come. 

I assume part of this thought process is the White Sox think Kimbrel will net them some prospects in the offseason. 

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Just now, fathom said:

but he's been incredible this year and hopefully continues that for rest of the year.  1 year at 16 million for a great closer is not a bad deal for teams to consider this offseason.

He actually started to regain his form the last month of last season. I remember Kaplan saying the Sox should trade for him before they signed Hendriks. He said it would cost almost nothing in prospects and the Cubs might eat some cash.

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1 minute ago, Tony said:

Then you’re welcome, Soxtalk

can't wait for the memoirs when Rick walks into a conference room and passes out 20 copies of "Tony's" message board post.

"This came from the manager?"

"No, different tony."

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They problem is non of these guys are Catchers. Maybe we can train Vaughn to catch he seems to be able to do everything else. Now we have all these pitchers  and no catcher. We have a catcher who can catch and a second who can’t catch or hit. They better  keep everything up because Collins might be the worst in the league at stuff in the dirt. So if Grandahl can’t catch anymore we are expecting to win without a Catcher

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I just, I don't know... It's a lot of money tied up in a lot of short-term, high risk value. The only other team in recent history that decided to dump this much money into the back-end of their bullpen is the fucking Rockies, and we're dumping money AND player talent into it.

I think there's a good reason that the progressive teams sell off good bullpen pieces every year and seem to find a way to make new ones out of thin air. There are methods for maximizing raw stuff, but these guys typically don't have enough tricks to make it last very long. I know Kimbrel has made a whole career of it, but he also looked completely destroyed for the two season prior to this. Once again, the Sox are making an upgrade, but doing it in a very inefficient way with a fiscal policy that doesn't have much room for inefficiency.

I just hope it works.

This is exactly how I feel. Great teams don't spend a high percentage of their payroll on relievers. It's unreliable and inefficient.

Starting this year, EVERYONE thought the White Sox had a dominant bullpen and it was the strength of their team. 4 months later everyone was desperate to add bullpen pieces. Looks like the Sox didn't learn their lesson.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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Just now, Eminor3rd said:

If you look at fraction of payroll, that's not really true.

As far as the second sentence goes -- yeah, I guess I'm just noticing that this is looking more and more like a short window of contention with each transaction that's made, and maybe I just need time to come to terms with that.  

I really do think the window has always been 3-4 years. This is Year 1. It’s go time. They don’t win the World Series this year, you only have 2-3 more shots at it. 

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Let's gooooo!

Love Madrigal, but 2nd basemen with no power aren't hard to find.  Plus Hernandez's option will now be picked up for $6M next year, so we have an instant replacement.

Heuer has potential to be a great reliever and we saw it last year, but worth giving up to get a guy like Kimbrel.  Our bullpen is absolutely ridiculous now.

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I think this also helps to clear up the playoff rotation.

Start Keuchel and limit him to one time through the order.  Follow him with Cease, Crochet, Tepera, Kopech, Kimbrell and Hendriks.

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