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Edited by Tnetennba

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3 hours ago, Quin said:

Lonzo with a small meniscus tear, they're getting further diagnosis. That probably kills any Coby trade proposals - which AKME is supposedly backing off to begin with.

Positive outlook: That's about that the easiest/quickest knee tear to come back from depending on the severity. It's also going to force more development time on Coby and Ayo.

Negative: This team needs to gel before the playoffs, man.

Trade chips are basically DJJ, Troy Brown, second rounders, and the Portland pick. 

With Lonzo out for a while and Coby balling out, I agree that he likely is no longer a trade chip.  His offense can really come into play off the bench in the stretch run.

As for trade assets, IMO PWill is/should be top of the list if the FO wants to make a big move for a 4.  His value should still be fairly high and his developmental timeline just doesn't match up with this squad anymore after a lost year.   Don't know if AKME is sentimental about their own lotto picks, but PWill is their best trade piece and they shouldn't be off limits if they are looking to everything they can to build the best possible roster. 

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15 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

 

 

It he's out 8 weeks then he'll get maybe 12 games at the end of the season. 8 weeks puts his return in mid to late March and the regular season is more or less over at that point. 6 weeks will mean he's back at the start of March and can get maybe 20 games in before the playoffs. 

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15 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

With Lonzo out for a while and Coby balling out, I agree that he likely is no longer a trade chip.  His offense can really come into play off the bench in the stretch run.

As for trade assets, IMO PWill is/should be top of the list if the FO wants to make a big move for a 4.  His value should still be fairly high and his developmental timeline just doesn't match up with this squad anymore after a lost year.   Don't know if AKME is sentimental about their own lotto picks, but PWill is their best trade piece and they shouldn't be off limits if they are looking to everything they can to build the best possible roster. 

AK is supposedly holding on tight to Pat, so they have to be big believers in him / don't think the likes of Grant/Barnes are worth it. Which, to be fair, Grant doesn't sound like he's sticking around a team like the Bulls if he's traded here.

With Lonzo out, Barnes makes way more sense to slot in with shooting and rebounding + history of being a fourth option.

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10 minutes ago, Quin said:

AK is supposedly holding on tight to Pat, so they have to be big believers in him / don't think the likes of Grant/Barnes are worth it. Which, to be fair, Grant doesn't sound like he's sticking around a team like the Bulls if he's traded here.

With Lonzo out, Barnes makes way more sense to slot in with shooting and rebounding + history of being a fourth option.

Barnes, is probably the best fit right now and I really hope they can make that happen. With his success against guys like Giannis and KD, who they are more than likely going to have to go through in the playoffs, would be huge. 

 

Cleveland would still be a tough matchup in the playoffs though. Idk how Barnes holds up against their bulkier bigs.  

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23 minutes ago, Quin said:

AK is supposedly holding on tight to Pat, so they have to be big believers in him / don't think the likes of Grant/Barnes are worth it. Which, to be fair, Grant doesn't sound like he's sticking around a team like the Bulls if he's traded here.

With Lonzo out, Barnes makes way more sense to slot in with shooting and rebounding + history of being a fourth option.

If they can acquire Barnes w/o giving up PWill, great.  I'd like to think PWill has more trade value than that even though I am totally not a believer that he'll be anything special.  If Barnes can play anything like his GSW days he would help the Bulls in a number of critically needed areas.

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I don't see the Bulls trading any of the people being outlined. Maybe some picks - but that would be about it. I do expect them to be players in the buyout marketplace though.  Ayo / White / Pat Williams - I don't think they are moving them for any of the names being discussed.  

Hopefully Lonzo is back on March 1st - so there is enough time for him to build back up.  I am hoping Pat Williams is playing at that point too.  Additionally - if I were the Bulls, I might just sit Derozan a game upcoming (given how many minutes he has logged) to try and get him a bit more of an extended rest.  

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20 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

If they can acquire Barnes w/o giving up PWill, great.  I'd like to think PWill has more trade value than that even though I am totally not a believer that he'll be anything special.  If Barnes can play anything like his GSW days he would help the Bulls in a number of critically needed areas.

DJJ/Brown/Thomas gets you there salary wise. They just need to justify it with cap relief / their remaining picks to the Kings / whatever third team the Kings want to send the Bulls assets to.

6 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I don't see the Bulls trading any of the people being outlined. Maybe some picks - but that would be about it. I do expect them to be players in the buyout marketplace though.  Ayo / White / Pat Williams - I don't think they are moving them for any of the names being discussed.  

Hopefully Lonzo is back on March 1st - so there is enough time for him to build back up.  I am hoping Pat Williams is playing at that point too.  Additionally - if I were the Bulls, I might just sit Derozan a game upcoming (given how many minutes he has logged) to try and get him a bit more of an extended rest.  

I'll be legit shocked if Ibaka isn't traded and bought out. 

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39 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I don't see the Bulls trading any of the people being outlined. Maybe some picks - but that would be about it. I do expect them to be players in the buyout marketplace though.  Ayo / White / Pat Williams - I don't think they are moving them for any of the names being discussed.  

Hopefully Lonzo is back on March 1st - so there is enough time for him to build back up.  I am hoping Pat Williams is playing at that point too.  Additionally - if I were the Bulls, I might just sit Derozan a game upcoming (given how many minutes he has logged) to try and get him a bit more of an extended rest.  

I really do wonder how he'll hold up. He's been missing a ton of free throws recently. I wonder if that's fatigue. 

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Personally I think it is worth exploring a better player than a buyout

It is tough though. There are few bad teams and those that are truly bad are mostly just very young.

If you can get Barnes you just have to get him. I mean, Ibaka doesn't preclude you from anything. And I mean off the bench is he that much better than what Green would get you (Green's numbers are vs. Starters keep in mind)

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3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Personally I think it is worth exploring a better player than a buyout

It is tough though. There are few bad teams and those that are truly bad are mostly just very young.

If you can get Barnes you just have to get him. I mean, Ibaka doesn't preclude you from anything. And I mean off the bench is he that much better than what Green would get you (Green's numbers are vs. Starters keep in mind)

I just don't see why getting Barnes magically makes you that much better compared to what you give up. I don't see you going from a 5th best odds to 2nd best odds team. Quite frankly - I don't think the odds move much at all with the types of trades being discussed - but the LT flexibility certainly gets impacted.  I just don't see them making that big move now and when they do - I think the reality is it is likely a combination of people, Vuc or Ball plus some of the other parts and they are being used to get you a star that does make that sort of move.  

Especially with how this front office has been able to find guys like Javonte Green and others.  Find a good 4 - maybe not in  buyout market but in a less high profile trade (similar to when they got Theiss - albeit that cost us Gafford and clearly Washington is pretty happy they made that move).  But same concept applies.  

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I doubt Coby White is going anywhere now after this news. 

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21 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I just don't see why getting Barnes magically makes you that much better compared to what you give up. I don't see you going from a 5th best odds to 2nd best odds team. Quite frankly - I don't think the odds move much at all with the types of trades being discussed - but the LT flexibility certainly gets impacted.  I just don't see them making that big move now and when they do - I think the reality is it is likely a combination of people, Vuc or Ball plus some of the other parts and they are being used to get you a star that does make that sort of move.  

Especially with how this front office has been able to find guys like Javonte Green and others.  Find a good 4 - maybe not in  buyout market but in a less high profile trade (similar to when they got Theiss - albeit that cost us Gafford and clearly Washington is pretty happy they made that move).  But same concept applies.  

I think he makes them a lot better.

1. The bulls are the best percentage 3pt team in the league but lowest in attempts. They have a math problem. Their "4s" like Green and DJJ only put up 1-2 3s per game. Barnes puts up 5 and hits them at a 45% clip

2. Because Lavine, Vuc, and Demar operate so much in the mid-range, you don't want a guy that also needs to play there. Barnes would be fine just hanging and getting easy corner 3s. Barnes basically shoots 3s or close 2s. And he CAN back a guy down if needed, which is helpful in the 2nd unit.

3. He is not a great defensive player but he has often guarded the best offensive player on the opposing team and been neutral, and that is on a very stupid defensive team in the kings. The Bulls WITH caruso and ball are actually quite smart on defense, and it's believable he'd do the same.

4. He gets to the line 5 times per game, the guys he is replacing do not get there consistently

He's a bit like our discussions of Jeff McNeil for the sox. He's not the greatest player in the world but his strengths fit nearly all of the white sox weaknesses (LH, Low K, Strong OBP, Strong Defense).

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23 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think he makes them a lot better.

1. The bulls are the best percentage 3pt team in the league but lowest in attempts. They have a math problem. Their "4s" like Green and DJJ only put up 1-2 3s per game. Barnes puts up 5 and hits them at a 45% clip

2. Because Lavine, Vuc, and Demar operate so much in the mid-range, you don't want a guy that also needs to play there. Barnes would be fine just hanging and getting easy corner 3s. Barnes basically shoots 3s or close 2s. And he CAN back a guy down if needed, which is helpful in the 2nd unit.

3. He is not a great defensive player but he has often guarded the best offensive player on the opposing team and been neutral, and that is on a very stupid defensive team in the kings. The Bulls WITH caruso and ball are actually quite smart on defense, and it's believable he'd do the same.

4. He gets to the line 5 times per game, the guys he is replacing do not get there consistently

He's a bit like our discussions of Jeff McNeil for the sox. He's not the greatest player in the world but his strengths fit nearly all of the white sox weaknesses (LH, Low K, Strong OBP, Strong Defense).

Also, 6 rebounds a game doesn't seem like a lot, but it would currently be #2 on the Bulls behind Vuc (11.1) and ahead of Lonzo (5.4). Plus, he's in a situation where he has to compete with a lot of teammates for boards - usually I see Vuc and the entire opposing team fighting for rebounds.

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48 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think he makes them a lot better.

1. The bulls are the best percentage 3pt team in the league but lowest in attempts. They have a math problem. Their "4s" like Green and DJJ only put up 1-2 3s per game. Barnes puts up 5 and hits them at a 45% clip

2. Because Lavine, Vuc, and Demar operate so much in the mid-range, you don't want a guy that also needs to play there. Barnes would be fine just hanging and getting easy corner 3s. Barnes basically shoots 3s or close 2s. And he CAN back a guy down if needed, which is helpful in the 2nd unit.

3. He is not a great defensive player but he has often guarded the best offensive player on the opposing team and been neutral, and that is on a very stupid defensive team in the kings. The Bulls WITH caruso and ball are actually quite smart on defense, and it's believable he'd do the same.

4. He gets to the line 5 times per game, the guys he is replacing do not get there consistently

He's a bit like our discussions of Jeff McNeil for the sox. He's not the greatest player in the world but his strengths fit nearly all of the white sox weaknesses (LH, Low K, Strong OBP, Strong Defense).

I just think volume will be impacted and we already have Ball who just sits around the arch in a half court set as well.  I just don't think they are that much better with that move so would rather save the chips for something meaningful. It's like desert - if I'm going to have something not good for me - I want it to taste good; I don't want to give up a day of my life eating something crappy for me that is just meh - if I do that its got to be worth it.  I feel that way when it comes to using young, cost controlled assets.  

I might be grossly wrong too and if they got Barnes alright - lets see how that extra part makes it all work together better. Either way - right now - in AKME/BD I trust (hopefully I'm saying the same thing 5 years from now too).  

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Just now, Chisoxfn said:

I just think volume will be impacted and we already have Ball who just sits around the arch in a half court set as well.  I just don't think they are that much better with that move so would rather save the chips for something meaningful. It's like desert - if I'm going to have something not good for me - I want it to taste good; I don't want to give up a day of my life eating something crappy for me that is just meh - if I do that its got to be worth it.  I feel that way when it comes to using young, cost controlled assets.  

I might be grossly wrong too and if they got Barnes alright - lets see how that extra part makes it all work together better. Either way - right now - in AKME/BD I trust (hopefully I'm saying the same thing 5 years from now too).  

But you also have Green/DJJ hang around the arc, so this is replacing these guys who can only slash or begrudgingly shoot some wide open corner 3s with Barnes who people have to cover. It's 4 on 5 now and it would be a very strong 5 on 5. 

In the playoffs, we know teams are not going to let Demar operate 1 on 1 to get these midrange buckets. So having a guy he can send out the pass to for a 3 will be huge, and he can cover a strong 4 rather than Ball and let ball and caruso wreak havoc on smaller players.

The bulls have a very good team, who knows if stars align with guys playing this well again.

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8 minutes ago, bmags said:

But you also have Green/DJJ hang around the arc, so this is replacing these guys who can only slash or begrudgingly shoot some wide open corner 3s with Barnes who people have to cover. It's 4 on 5 now and it would be a very strong 5 on 5. 

In the playoffs, we know teams are not going to let Demar operate 1 on 1 to get these midrange buckets. So having a guy he can send out the pass to for a 3 will be huge, and he can cover a strong 4 rather than Ball and let ball and caruso wreak havoc on smaller players.

The bulls have a very good team, who knows if stars align with guys playing this well again.

I agree with most everything you say - quite frankly I have zero expectation that they will win a championship this year. I think the stars need to align - but I have that same view with or without Harrison Barnes. It is why I just don't see the need to use chips for something like that.  I would rather keep ammo for the ability to create that sort of juice in future vs. use it now on something that I don't believe materially moves the needle. 

I should caveat - could the Bulls win a title this year - sure - but they will need luck to go there way. They need health on the right side, some good bounces, and honestly, need some other teams to have health not be in there favor.  I think Bulls best ability to get to elite level is the young players taking more step forward (even Lavine who continues to get better) while also finding new ways to find star power.  Young players includes Pat, Coby, Ayo and Ball at this point.  Do I think any of those people become a superstar - no, probably not - but they could all become pretty dynamic players/fits in there own right.  

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33 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

 

Guess he shouldn't have gone ring chasing. He sucked so bad with the Nets I don't even want him.

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Coming from the unofficial Bulls mouthpiece, how true is this really?

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6 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Coming from the unofficial Bulls mouthpiece, how true is this really?

If KCJ said so it's bankable as true, and potentially something someone wants out there.

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If KCJ said so it's bankable as true, and potentially something someone wants out there.

"potentially something someone wants out there."

My thoughts exactly.

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it would be nice if one of the bulls beat writers actually became a mouth piece because it seems like they have been a tight lipped group.

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