Rodon to IL with Shoulder Fatigue

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's amazing, conditioning, exercise and nutrition and etc have improved ten fold over the past two decades, but for some reason position players in baseball need 20-30 games of rest per year to stay fresh while their counterparts 20-30 years ago took about 5-10 days off a season. 

Load management for position players in baseball is a load of garbage. Pitchers, because they've become so max effort are a different story.

Sounds great in theory, but in reality we a roster full of injured and ailing players 

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's amazing, conditioning, exercise and nutrition and etc have improved ten fold over the past two decades, but for some reason position players in baseball need 20-30 games of rest per year to stay fresh while their counterparts 20-30 years ago took about 5-10 days off a season. 

Load management for position players in baseball is a load of garbage. Pitchers, because they've become so max effort are a different story.

It's the same thing in basketball. Thibs supposedly kills players, yet Phil Jackson and Pop played guys 40 minutes a night, and that was when the game was way more physical,  and they are geniuses. 

[RG23SoxFan]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It's the same thing in basketball. Thibs supposedly kills players, yet Phil Jackson and Pop played guys 40 minutes a night, and that was when the game was way more physical,  and they are geniuses. 

I think part of it is what is the norm throughout the league.  MLB doesn't mandate that any team give a certain number of games off so these teams believe there is a benefit to giving days off.  I honestly don't know the answer to this, but do the White Sox give their players an excessive number of games off versus other teams?  Guess to really see the impact you would need to have a team that gave their players a good deal of rest throughout the season against a team that didn't.  Being in this weak division seems to be an advantage for the White Sox because you would hope this will allow them to arrive in October in good condition both physically and mentally. 

[Dick Allen]

7 minutes ago, RG23SoxFan said:

I think part of it is what is the norm throughout the league.  MLB doesn't mandate that any team give a certain number of games off so these teams believe there is a benefit to giving days off.  I honestly don't know the answer to this, but do the White Sox give their players an excessive number of games off versus other teams?  Guess to really see the impact you would need to have a team that gave their players a good deal of rest throughout the season against a team that didn't.  Being in this weak division seems to be an advantage for the White Sox because you would hope this will allow them to arrive in October in good condition both physically and mentally. 

There is definitely a benefit, but to a certain point. The thing is, as soon as most of the better players start getting 30 games a year off for "rest" people who pay a lot of money to watch and broadcast these games, are going to get pissed. It got so bad in the NBA,, they had to set up  protocols. 

And exactly what are they protecting? Players are getting hurt way more than ever.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

There is definitely a benefit, but to a certain point. The thing is, as soon as most of the better players start getting 30 games a year off for "rest" people who pay a lot of money to watch and broadcast these games, are going to get pissed. It got so bad in the NBA,, they had to set up  protocols. 

And exactly what are they protecting? Players are getting hurt way more than ever.

This year a bad outlier for injuries on top of it all.

[RG23SoxFan]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

There is definitely a benefit, but to a certain point. The thing is, as soon as most of the better players start getting 30 games a year off for "rest" people who pay a lot of money to watch and broadcast these games, are going to get pissed. It got so bad in the NBA,, they had to set up  protocols. 

And exactly what are they protecting? Players are getting hurt way more than ever.

yeah no argument there.  If you are going to charge MLB prices(to both fans and TV networks) then you need to consistently provide an MLB product.  

[greg775]

2 hours ago, quickman said:

any update on rodon and his MRI or the plan moving forward? I have not seen anything. 

I don't follow other teams as closely as I used to, in fact not at all. Sox have a lot of arms that need to be scrutinized and/or aided by DL stints, etc. And a lot of arms that need repair. Do other teams have this same problem? It seems like if you can somehow get 5 1/3 or 5 2/3 innings out of a Sox starter it's time to celebrate wildly. And a lot of pitchers have needed surgery. And it seems like there's always talk about how Sox pitchers are being watched for maximum amount of innings, etc.

Are baseball pitchers close to being extinct species in sports or is this a Sox "problem" only?

Edited August 12, 2021 by greg775

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I don't follow other teams as closely as I used to, in fact not at all. Sox have a lot of arms that need to be scrutinized and/or aided by DL stints, etc. And a lot of arms that need repair. Do other teams have this same problem? It seems like if you can somehow get 5 1/3 or 5 2/3 innings out of a Sox starter it's time to celebrate wildly. And a lot of pitchers have needed surgery. And it seems like there's always talk about how Sox pitchers are being watched for maximum amount of innings, etc.

Are baseball pitchers close to being extinct species in sports or is this a Sox "problem" only?

Last I remember the Sox are at the top of MLB for SP IP.

[ptatc]

45 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

There is definitely a benefit, but to a certain point. The thing is, as soon as most of the better players start getting 30 games a year off for "rest" people who pay a lot of money to watch and broadcast these games, are going to get pissed. It got so bad in the NBA,, they had to set up  protocols. 

And exactly what are they protecting? Players are getting hurt way more than ever.

Much of this year, I think is due to the lack of playing last year with the high number of injuries. This year I have no issue with erring on the side of caution and giving them more of a break.

[SpringfieldFan]

28 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I don't follow other teams as closely as I used to, in fact not at all. Sox have a lot of arms that need to be scrutinized and/or aided by DL stints, etc. And a lot of arms that need repair. Do other teams have this same problem? It seems like if you can somehow get 5 1/3 or 5 2/3 innings out of a Sox starter it's time to celebrate wildly. And a lot of pitchers have needed surgery. And it seems like there's always talk about how Sox pitchers are being watched for maximum amount of innings, etc.

Are baseball pitchers close to being extinct species in sports or is this a Sox "problem" only?

I think its the same for all teams, because as has been said, the pitchers are now going at "max effort" (a confusing term to me since it implies that before now pitchers didn't "try their best", but I guess its more about physical exertion).

That means a quality start, typically 100 pitches, comes after only 5 innings rather than 7 or more. Apparently going all out means less pitching  to contact, so there are more pitches per at bat and that 100 pitch limit comes a lot earlier. I have thought about extinction too, but in terms not of baseball pitchers in general, but starting pitchers in particular. I predict that the only distinction between pitchers will be between closers and everyone else. Until the last inning, any pitcher could be interchangeable at any point during the game, but likely never go more than three innings or so. Those pitchers will be elite max-effort guys that only need to see a lineup one time through.

That's all just my opinion, and comes not from expertise so much as what I seem to be observing.

Edited August 12, 2021 by SpringfieldFan

[greg775]

25 minutes ago, SpringfieldFan said:

I think its the same for all teams, because as has been said, the pitchers are now going at "max effort" (a confusing term to me since it implies that before now pitchers didn't "try their best", but I guess its more about physical exertion).

That means a quality start, typically 100 pitches, comes after only 5 innings rather than 7 or more. Apparently going all out means less pitching  to contact, so there are more pitches per at bat and that 100 pitch limit comes a lot earlier. I have thought about extinction too, but in terms not of baseball pitchers in general, but starting pitchers in particular. I predict that the only distinction between pitchers will be between closers and everyone else. Until the last inning, any pitcher could be interchangeable at any point during the game, but likely never go more than three innings or so. Those pitchers will be elite max-effort guys that only need to see a lineup one time through.

That's all just my opinion, and comes not from expertise so much as what I seem to be observing.

I think your post is what actually will happen.

[NWINFan]

1 hour ago, RG23SoxFan said:

yeah no argument there.  If you are going to charge MLB prices(to both fans and TV networks) then you need to consistently provide an MLB product.  

I agree also. I don't believe in "Sunday lineups."

Yet, players still need rest. One reason the Cubs faded in 1969 is that Durocher played his starters constantly. Randy Hundley caught 151 games and by September, he was spent. Kessinger played in 158 games and he also looked spent by September. The Mets got really hot, but physically the Cubs were in bad shape. But a manager can rest starters without out and out conceding games.

[greg775]

7 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

I agree also. I don't believe in "Sunday lineups."

Yet, players still need rest. One reason the Cubs faded in 1969 is that Durocher played his starters constantly. Randy Hundley caught 151 games and by September, he was spent. Kessinger played in 158 games and he also looked spent by September. The Mets got really hot, but physically the Cubs were in bad shape. But a manager can rest starters without out and out conceding games.

This post will surely draw the ire of most of the regular posters. But I ask, when a player gets a day off does he actually get a day off? Does he still take batting practice, take grounders, lift weights, run before and after the game? It seems to me the act of actually playing the game (4 at bats, some running on the bases, some action on defense) is not very meaningful if he's still doing all that other stuff. Maybe it helps mentally to skip one game a week but I still think this "resting" of players stuff is overrated if the player still works out pre game and post game. Ripken never needed to take time off to recharge mentally.

A true day off would be to tell the player to skip BP, skip taking grounders, skip the running. Just show up and relax a day.

Edited August 12, 2021 by greg775

[NWINFan]

17 minutes ago, greg775 said:

This post will surely draw the ire of most of the regular posters. But I ask, when a player gets a day off does he actually get a day off? Does he still take batting practice, take grounders, lift weights, run before and after the game? It seems to me the act of actually playing the game (4 at bats, some running on the bases, some action on defense) is not very meaningful if he's still doing all that other stuff. Maybe it helps mentally to skip one game a week but I still think this "resting" of players stuff is overrated if the player still works out pre game and post game. Ripken never needed to take time off to recharge mentally.

A true day off would be to tell the player to skip BP, skip taking grounders, skip the running. Just show up and relax a day.

Yes, it does mentally to take a day off from playing. All I can tell you is that I vividly recall Randy Hundley chasing a foul ball in play and was unable to get because to get because he was exhausted. Think about it. A catcher playing 150 games? That's insane.

Players aren't machines. And I don't care about Cal Ripken. How do you know he didn't play some bad games because he should have had his self-centered ass on the bench?

[South Side Hit Men]

I may be in the minority here, but I'm fine with giving 10-15 games off a season. The Sox are nowhere close to giving guys 30 games off. A few of the extra "games off" this year are due to the increase in doubleheaders for COVID, guys playing one game and skipping the second.

Last year was a 60 game sprint, so it made more sense to push things, though Jose and Tim still should have had more than 0-1 scheduled games off, IMO.

They sat their core Wednesday to ensure their stars would be available for the hyped corn game today. 

2021 Gamedays Off (does not count a game off if a player played one of two doubleheader games)

• 2 Luis Robert (Plus 60 + day IL stint)
• 5 Tim Anderson (Plus 10 day IL stint)
• 6 Jose Abreu
• 11 Yoan Moncada

2020 Gamedays Off (does not count a game off if a player played one of two doubleheader games)

• 0 Jose Abreu
• 1 Tim Anderson (Plus 10 day IL stint)
• 4 Luis Robert
• 8 Yoan Moncada

Edited August 12, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[JoeCredeYes]

6 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's amazing, conditioning, exercise and nutrition and etc have improved ten fold over the past two decades, but for some reason position players in baseball need 20-30 games of rest per year to stay fresh while their counterparts 20-30 years ago took about 5-10 days off a season. 

Load management for position players in baseball is a load of garbage. Pitchers, because they've become so max effort are a different story.

Yeah, it's amazing what speed and steroids can do to keep you on the field.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

29 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

Yeah, it's amazing what speed and steroids can do to keep you on the field.

Speed certainly isn't more helpful than world class training, nutrition and etc that has taken off. It may give you some energy but it's not helping with recovery.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

Yes, it does mentally to take a day off from playing. All I can tell you is that I vividly recall Randy Hundley chasing a foul ball in play and was unable to get because to get because he was exhausted. Think about it. A catcher playing 150 games? That's insane.

Players aren't machines. And I don't care about Cal Ripken. How do you know he didn't play some bad games because he should have had his self-centered ass on the bench?

I just think it's illogical to do all the pre-game work and weight lifting and all you "get off" is the actual game. Baseball is a difficult game but there's not a lot of physical activity in 9 innings. Give 'em the whole day off.

Edited August 12, 2021 by greg775

[RG23SoxFan]

39 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I just think it's illogical to do all the pre-game work and weight lifting and all you "get off" is the actual game. Baseball is a difficult game but there's not a lot of physical activity in 9 innings. Give 'em the whole day off.

I don't know I am just asking, is there routine different on a "day off"?  I understand they aren't sitting in the dugout eating hot dogs lol, but maybe their pre and post game routine is different on those days?  I do also believe there is something to be said for taking a mental break from the daily grind of the season.  

[Dick Allen]

Looks like the MRI was clean. Boras says Rodon is healthy and the Sox are doing a wonderful job trying to keep him healthy for October. 

[Colome's Hat]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Looks like the MRI was clean. Boras says Rodon is healthy and the Sox are doing a wonderful job trying to keep him healthy for October. 

Of course he does.

Figured no news was good news though.  Shut him down through August though.  

[wegner]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Looks like the MRI was clean. Boras says Rodon is healthy and the Sox are doing a wonderful job trying to keep him healthy for October. 

Boras being complimentary to the Sox??  Maybe this is the year.  Of course that is him not closing any doors of course.

[Colome's Hat]

1 minute ago, wegner said:

Boras being complimentary to the Sox??  Maybe this is the year.  Of course that is him not closing any doors of course.

Lol.  I know. 

 

We have quite a few Boras clients though.  I don't know what happened but the relationship seems to be fine now.

[Dick Allen]

It could be they just decided to shut him down and the MRI was for show. You aren't supposed to put uninjured players on the IL. Billy Hamilton is another who probably is healthy enough to play, but they get their money's worth just having him around.

[Bob Sacamano]

16 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It could be they just decided to shut him down and the MRI was for show. You aren't supposed to put uninjured players on the IL. Billy Hamilton is another who probably is healthy enough to play, but they get their money's worth just having him around.

Right. IL stint for Billy at least keeps all the depth around for now. I expect him back September 1st and on the playoff roster.